[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Edge-]

The funny thing was the photo ID that old people have (a bus pass provided free) was valid ID. The same bus pass that young people had (having paid for it) was deemed not to be valid. It was a pretty transparent attempt to make it much more likely that young voters (who don't vote Tory) get disenfranchised while old voters (who tend to vote Tory) didn't.

Bit like the Republicans, the Tories don't even pretend to be subtle when they're trying to cheat. Now JRM is complaining that their blatant attempt to rig things in their favour didn't work. Slimey cunt can do one, as far as I'm concerned.

Oh wow, and here I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that this voter-ID law was done in good faith and not explicitly and expressly in an attempt to disenfranchise likely non-Tory voters.

Truly, I really should have known better now that American conservative-style politics seems to have found a home within the Tories, complete with complaining about wokism and all that nonsense.

That just makes the own-goal all the sweeter and more delicious. Good thing it's artificial sweeteners so we don't risk getting the Wilford Brimley.

I do hope that younger zoomer voters turned out in droves there to vote for "not-Tories" as well as they've been doing in the US as of late. Just to remind them that their primary demographic are literally dying on the daily while the demographic that will be voting for the next half-century or longer absolutely hates their guts with a passion.

[Muzjhath]

- Today, calls Labour "particularly silly" for suggesting potentially extending voting rights to some EU citizens.

Meanwhile anyone who's a registered resident of a municipality in Sweden is allowed to vote in local elections. (Not regional or national).

[Nymrohd]

Meanwhile anyone who's a registered resident of a municipality in Sweden is allowed to vote in local elections. (Not regional or national).

I think that is part of EU law; EU citizens that have a permanent residence in a different member state can vote for municipal elections in that state.

[Muzjhath]

I think that is part of EU law; EU citizens that have a permanent residence in a different member state can vote for municipal elections in that state.

Applies to all residents

[Nymrohd]

Applies to all residents

Oh nice. Not sure what the laws here are about this tbh. There are a LOT of backdoors for naturalization in Greece anyway.

[Huehuecoyotl]

"Brexit has failed" says one of the main architects of Brexit, Nigel Farage.

https://www.politico.eu/article/nige...it-has-failed/

Got to call in dribbles for assistance on this one. When one of the people that demanded Brexit says it has failed, isn't it time you just admit that it really has failed? Or do you keep on deluding yourself when the entire planet is saying "yup, this is fucked".

[zealo]

"Brexit has failed" says one of the main architects of Brexit, Nigel Farage.

https://www.politico.eu/article/nige...it-has-failed/

Got to call in dribbles for assistance on this one. When one of the people that demanded Brexit says it has failed, isn't it time you just admit that it really has failed? Or do you keep on deluding yourself when the entire planet is saying "yup, this is fucked".

Even then the cretin isn't saying he thinks leaving the EU were a mistake, but that the tories have shit the bed in going about handling it, which even when the second half is true, is pretty fucking ironic coming from a guy who just ran when his side actually won at the polls.

Asked if the U.K. would have been better off remaining in the EU Farage insisted he didn’t “think that for a moment.”

[dribbles]

"Brexit has failed" says one of the main architects of Brexit, Nigel Farage.

https://www.politico.eu/article/nige...it-has-failed/

Got to call in dribbles for assistance on this one. When one of the people that demanded Brexit says it has failed, isn't it time you just admit that it really has failed? Or do you keep on deluding yourself when the entire planet is saying "yup, this is fucked".

Nigel is not saying that Brexit has failed at all in your linked article did you even read it?, just that the Tories have failed Brexit.

I think we can all agree that there are many more benefits to Brexit that we could have taken advantage of, if we had more Brexit, but didn't because anti-democratic remainers in government prevented us from doing so. That is why the Tories will get kicked out of government by the British people at the next General Election.

I agree with Nigel and see that his Reform UK party is polling very nicely, the pressure is building for more of the beautiful Brexit. The Tories for now don't see that. Keir Starmer does, even Ed Davey does.

Brexit hasn't failed in my eyes unless and until we have rejoined the EU, we haven't and we never will, the success that is Brexit is undeniable so much so that no political party wants to take us back into the EU. Not even the Lib Dems will publicly say it anymore...

[tehdang]

the success that is Brexit is undeniable so much so that no political party wants to take us back into the EU. Not even the Lib Dems will publicly say it anymore...

I gather they still want to accomplish the goals of anti-Brexit, but they're not dumb enough to do that under the banner of asking for membership in the EU again. Rishi Sunak just ate criticism for his government stopping plans to axe 4,000 EU laws still hanging around in the UK, contrary to his campaign pledge, so you can imagine Keir Starmer also keeping them and re-establishing some of the laws that were repealed.

[MCMLXXXII]

dribbles logic: we're not trying to get back in the EU again, so Brexit is a success. No shit. Rejoining isn't an option because the EU has no intention of even reconsidering it.
Brexit now is: sitting at a dentist getting all your teeth pulled without sedation.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Nigel is not saying that Brexit has failed at all in your linked article did you even read it?, just that the Tories have failed Brexit.

I think we can all agree that there are many more benefits to Brexit that we could have taken advantage of, if we had more Brexit, but didn't because anti-democratic remainers in government prevented us from doing so. That is why the Tories will get kicked out of government by the British people at the next General Election.

I agree with Nigel and see that his Reform UK party is polling very nicely, the pressure is building for more of the beautiful Brexit. The Tories for now don't see that. Keir Starmer does, even Ed Davey does.

Brexit hasn't failed in my eyes unless and until we have rejoined the EU, we haven't and we never will, the success that is Brexit is undeniable so much so that no political party wants to take us back into the EU. Not even the Lib Dems will publicly say it anymore...

The fucking irony of you telling someone else that they didn't read the article they linked. When you clearly didn't read it when you made your post.

He literally said the words "Brexit has failed". Those exact words came out of his mouth.

As for needing more Brexit, thanks for sharing your on-going mental break. You've looked at how badly the country has been fucked by Brexit, and determined that the way to fix it is to do more Brexit. Sorry, but you've taken your panto Brexiteer schtick too far now. You're going to have to dial it back again to avoid ridicule.

There is no pressure building for more Brexit. Every poll shows support for it slipping away. Nobody with a functioning brain believes it has been anything but a disaster, and nobody in any serious political party is going to push for us to go further. Especially when the Tories are about to be turfed out of power from what will hopefully be an extended period.

This is as much Brexit as you're going to get. You pulled us as far away from Europe as you could, public opinion has already started the process of pulling us back.

[Santti]

This is as much Brexit as you're going to get. You pulled us as far away from Europe as you could, public opinion has already started the process of pulling us back.

I wonder, what are the chances of UK starting the process of rejoining? How ready would EU be to retake them?

A wild guess I'm pulling out of my butt, is that EU would take UK back. Possibly with worse deal than what they had before they left, but I don't think UK would be outright blocked or anything. No idea how UK feels about rejoining, though. Probably needs to get worse with Brexit first.

[Iliena]

A wild guess I'm pulling out of my butt, is that EU would take UK back. Possibly with worse deal than what they had before they left, but I don't think UK would be outright blocked or anything. No idea how UK feels about rejoining, though. Probably needs to get worse with Brexit first.

This. But after we have suffered quite a bit and the current Brexiteers that are in any position of power are long gone and/or dead! So I don't see anything until after 2030.

So Dribb's this isn't the Brexit Nigel voted for? ...but it's Boris's Brexit! how could this possibly be? ...And wont it be awful rejoining without a veto! lol

[Mazza]

I wonder, what are the chances of UK starting the process of rejoining? How ready would EU be to retake them?

A wild guess I'm pulling out of my butt, is that EU would take UK back. Possibly with worse deal than what they had before they left, but I don't think UK would be outright blocked or anything. No idea how UK feels about rejoining, though. Probably needs to get worse with Brexit first.

In essence, it would prob be easier for the UK to get back in compared to say, Turkey... if they are willing to join WITHOUT all the exceptions they had. And say goodbye to the pound.

[Nymrohd]

Divergence from EU standards is still minimal. The UK could rejoin as long as no one veto'd (and that is not unlikely). It would not be fast tracked but it would still pass every check fast.
I doubt the UK actually wants that though. They would have to negotiate a custom exception for not joining the Euro (the original set of exceptions were written as part of the Treaty and negotiated back then).

A competent government that wanted to just get through with Brexit would comp through the EU legislation enshrined in UK law, identify if any was problematic and thus had to be removed, amend others were the parliament wishes some minimal divergence and simply accept the rest. A very simple fact as I said earlier; the vast majority of EU law accepted by past UK parliaments was also voted on by the majority of the democratically elected UK representatives to the EU Parliament. Heck you could even try and find the less than 10% of those laws that the UK did not agree on and focus on them (and that does make sense to me; you are out and you did not want those specific laws to begin with so why keep them)

Really I get people want to rejoin. And it definitely seems like Lib Dem is successful in several places because of a clear message on the issue. But I don't think Labour will reclaim Northern England counties with a similar position, definitely not for the next elections. And this idea that it is so hard for foreign countries to do business with the EU just shows how much many traders have come to depend on the zero restrictions of the single market. Plenty of people around the world export their products to the EU steadily. The only comparable examples for a divergent UK would probably be Russia (other major economies simply are too far or have multiple treaties allowing them easier access like Switzerland and Turkey) and before the sanctions I can tell you that the trade between the EU and Russia was brisk. If traders face significant difficulty continuing to export and import it is the failure of government to provide them with adequate guidance.

If presumably a Labour government is quite more competent though, they can make things work well enough with Brexit. Yes, I still think you'd be better in. But now you are out, find a way to make it work on the medium term. Seriously the UK should not get back in the EU because some people who do not agree at all with the European plan feel forced to rejoin for market reasons. That's catastrophic and we'd be back where we are in a few decades. If in the long term public sentiment to the EU has changed and that sentiment goes beyond the Single Market and easier vacations, then rejoin. But right now people want to rejoin entirely for the things the EU offers, not for what the EU is. And that is a recipe for an unhappy marriage.

[dribbles]

The fucking irony of you telling someone else that they didn't read the article they linked. When you clearly didn't read it when you made your post.

He literally said the words "Brexit has failed". Those exact words came out of his mouth.

As for needing more Brexit, thanks for sharing your on-going mental break. You've looked at how badly the country has been fucked by Brexit, and determined that the way to fix it is to do more Brexit. Sorry, but you've taken your panto Brexiteer schtick too far now. You're going to have to dial it back again to avoid ridicule.

There is no pressure building for more Brexit. Every poll shows support for it slipping away. Nobody with a functioning brain believes it has been anything but a disaster, and nobody in any serious political party is going to push for us to go further. Especially when the Tories are about to be turfed out of power from what will hopefully be an extended period.

This is as much Brexit as you're going to get. You pulled us as far away from Europe as you could, public opinion has already started the process of pulling us back.

Every poll doesn't show support for Brexit slipping away, you are making the same mistake as David Cameron. Polls have barely changed since the referendum where up until the very eve of it most had remain winning over leave. So much so in fact that on the the day one of your favourite sources carried this headline on receiving the results of the last poll before voting started boasting remain beating leave by 55-45.

Final polls show Remain with edge over Brexit

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7097261.html

I told everyone here they were wrong at the time and that the UK would leave, just as you are wrong today. Until opinion polls show conclusively that rejoin beats stay out by at least 70-30, and they don't, there is not going to be another referendum.

Until that point rejoin is dead in the water.

Of course there is pressure for more Brexit. Haven't you seen the headlines calling for a solution to the 100's of French refugees crossing the channel daily, the demands to leave the ECHR, the bonfire of 1000's of EU rules and regulations, you can go on and on. Even if there were a new referendum, there isn't, and if in the highly unlikely event rejoin won, it won't, 27 vetos are waiting to say hello. Dead in the water I tell you and day by day we get more Brexit by moving further and further away from EU standards and regulations.

Lovely Jubbly.

[diller]

I think we can all agree that there are many more benefits to Brexit that we could have taken advantage of

Said no sane person... ever.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Every poll doesn't show support for Brexit slipping away, you are making the same mistake as David Cameron. Polls have barely changed since the referendum where up until the very eve of it most had remain winning over leave. So much so in fact that on the the day one of your favourite sources carried this headline on receiving the results of the last poll before voting started boasting remain beating leave by 55-45.

Final polls show Remain with edge over Brexit

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7097261.html

I told everyone here they were wrong at the time and that the UK would leave, just as you are wrong today. Until opinion polls show conclusively that rejoin beats stay out by at least 70-30, and they don't, there is not going to be another referendum.

Until that point rejoin is dead in the water.

Of course there is pressure for more Brexit. Haven't you seen the headlines calling for a solution to the 100's of French refugees crossing the channel daily, the demands to leave the ECHR, the bonfire of 1000's of EU rules and regulations, you can go on and on. Even if there were a new referendum, there isn't, and if in the highly unlikely event rejoin won, it won't, 27 vetos are waiting to say hello. Dead in the water I tell you and day by day we get more Brexit by moving further and further away from EU standards and regulations.

Lovely Jubbly.

I've already shown you the poll with 86% of 18-25 year olds wanting to rejoin. If you can't see that shows that support for Brexit is going to naturally slip away once the old racist Brexit core support pops their clogs, I don't know what to tell you.

Brexit support was fundamentally older people. Even if nobody changed their view in the light of the tyre fire that Brexit has become, your support is going to drop naturally as time goes by. It's really tiring having to explain basic concepts like this to a brick wall like you, but what the fuck, I'll do it anyway.

Brexit is shit, so people are rejecting it. Old people that supported it are dying. Your numbers are going down with every passing day, and they will go down even quicker if you get your wish to have "moar Brexit".

Reality won't bend to your will. Brexit is dying. Sorry (not sorry).

[zealo]

I think we can all agree that there are many more benefits to Brexit that we could have taken advantage of, if we had more Brexit, but didn't because anti-democratic remainers in government prevented us from doing so

If we can all agree there are many more benefits the UK could have taken advantage of but didn’t, you should have no problem elaborating on what those advantages are explicitly and thoroughly.

Go right ahead Dribbles, we’re waiting.

[Flarelaine]

Vauxhall-maker warns Brexit may force it to close UK factory

I suppose this is somehow a Brexit benefit.