The longevity of WoW going forward.

[Thirtyrock]

If I feel like I'm getting burnt out then I take a break and go play a single player game like Zelda or even another replay of Skyrim. Even so, after a few weeks/months I start to feel the old call of Azeroth again and bring myself back. This is how I've done things for the past 19 years now.

If you haven't played Star Wars: Fallen Order or the sequel Star Wars: Survivor I HIGHLY recommend them. They're the best SW games I've ever played and I'd put both of them in my top 5 all time games. They're not as open ended as Skyrim, but damn is the gameplay amazing. The story is solid to excellent and the gameplay is S tier, imo.

[NineSpine]

So just the writing, then? The question would remain the same, essentially - what narrative points does MoP possess that DW lacks? This is a question about details: so elements like setting, plot, dialogue, interpersonal relationships, rising action, etc. What specifically would you say is the main issue or issues?

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To me, that sounds more like you prefer daily/world quests to be granted from a central hub of NPCs as opposed to being distributed across a given zone or various zones? Even though the quests, mechanically and in terms of density, are pretty much the same (e.g. collect X widgets, kill specific mobs, perform Y tasks, etc.) the fact that they're distributed somehow lessens their respective "impact" making them feel less like a monolithic meal and more akin to bite-sized single tasks? In terms of the total number of things to do, I'd say daily quest hubs in MoP and available WQs in DF are roughly even, although I'd give MoP the edge on sheer number, especially in the beginning.

Yes, I prefer a bunch of overlapping, thematically connected quests rather than a bunch of random, disconnected little pieces that I zip between. Even if the latter was MORE content, I find it incredibly bland and flavorless. Pacing has been a huge problem in WoW for a long time, and world quests are one of the worst examples of it.

[Aucald]

Yes, I prefer a bunch of overlapping, thematically connected quests rather than a bunch of random, disconnected little pieces that I zip between. Even if the latter was MORE content, I find it incredibly bland and flavorless. Pacing has been a huge problem in WoW for a long time, and world quests are one of the worst examples of it.

I understand the argument of the connectedness of the NPC hub model, but I don't really see how that equates to a "pacing" issue insofar as that goes. I've never noticed much of a change of pace, so to speak, between doing dailies from NPCs and flying around picking up and finishing WQs in a given zone. I've also noticed an uptick in WQs having more content to them in recent expansions than their intro in Legion, including quests with stages and more story than those early WQs which just had you filling up a random bar by killing mooks or collecting things. DQs, similarly, were never really substantive in terms of their story.

[NineSpine]

Honestly so far your the only one who has commented that I noticed about how updating a game engine would cause compatibility issues. But good job trying to frame the narrative that I'm some dumb fud sitting tapping keys in my mom's basement by stating that I'm basically saying "Nuh uh". I don't remember seeing how I ever responded to anyone with a "reasonable point about how what I'm asking for has compatibility issues". I have mainly been responding to those who have taken my comments or words out of context.

This is a fan site. All I've ever posted about on here was brainstorming ideas, "what-it's". To get people thinking and chat with others who are also passionate about the game I myself have spent almost 19 years now enjoying one way or another.

Of course there are issues with anything you do to change the backbone of a game. It wouldn't be something to be considered lightly but there are definitely Pros and cons to the idea. I am sure there would be pitfalls and pratfalls to contend with and all that would have to be balanced and considered on a risk vs reward basis. What would be better for the overall game going forward. It's my hopes that WoW CAN continue to grow and stay fun and fresh for other future expansions and generations of gamers. MY children are almost to the age where they would start playing themselves. I've been buying WoW merch for my son since he was a toddler as he used to enjoy watching me romp around in older zones like Duskwood, etc.

To recap. I never had the illusion of coming on here OR on the main WoW forums to ASK for anything. Just pose the question and idea to put thoughts to words.

I love bullshitting about game design. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that.

If everyone is having trouble understanding the context of your point, the problem is probably how you are communicating, because to me your whole attitude here reads like "I came up with this brilliant thing, and you all just don't understand how brilliant it is". For example, I provided a whole bunch of acritiques of your ideas in my first post and your response was just to reiterate how great your ideas are. You ignored the actual substance of what I said, and that seems to be how you are handling every response. You agree with what you agree with, but then you flat out disregard and do not address anything else.

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I understand the argument of the connectedness of the NPC hub model, but I don't really see how that equates to a "pacing" issue insofar as that goes. I've never noticed much of a change of pace, so to speak, between doing dailies from NPCs and flying around picking up and finishing WQs in a given zone. I've also noticed an uptick in WQs having more content to them in recent expansions than their intro in Legion, including quests with stages and more story than those early WQs which just had you filling up a random bar by killing mooks or collecting things. DQs, similarly, were never really substantive in terms of their story.

Most Daily Quest hubs were part of an ongoing story. You would do the quests for awhile and there would be story breakthroughs at certain points in progression, often with new quests unlocking.

The pacing is very, very different. You used to stop at a hub and grab a bunch of quests and then all of those quests would overlap in the same area so you would do most of them as one little trip out into the area. With World Quests, it's just zip to a single quest, zip to a single quest, zip to a single quest.

I certainly appreciate the advances in quest design, although the reliance on gimmicks and minigames is grating.

[Thirtyrock]

I understand the argument of the connectedness of the NPC hub model, but I don't really see how that equates to a "pacing" issue insofar as that goes. I've never noticed much of a change of pace, so to speak, between doing dailies from NPCs and flying around picking up and finishing WQs in a given zone. I've also noticed an uptick in WQs having more content to them in recent expansions than their intro in Legion, including quests with stages and more story than those early WQs which just had you filling up a random bar by killing mooks or collecting things. DQs, similarly, were never really substantive in terms of their story.

I do think there's something missing in the factions not having a "home" for you to go to to and then they ask you for help with their tasks. I completely agree that WQs have come a long way in terms of how much content each one provides, which is a vast improvement. That's something you could build into the old Daily Quest model, I imagine. On the other hand, it feels weird flying over a spot and getting a talking head pop up to help the Iskaara when I'm 1/2 across the zone from their home town.

At a minimum, if I'm WAY up in the air, the talking head feels super out of place, they should make you fly lower and/or land to get the quest intro. You should have to show, somehow, that you're intending to engage in the world quest, rather than just flying past the area at a high altitude.

It's a small thing, but I do think we lost something when we moved away from daily quest hubs. I also think it varies by faction and WQ type. I don't mind the Fishing quests being out in the middle of nowhere for pickup, but if I'm going to kill X baddies and save Y pups, that seems like someone should actually talk to my character to send me on that quest. Like, are these WQ givers just hanging in the middle of nowhere waiting for someone to wander by?

All that said, for me this is very, very minor.

[Soon-TM]

The player one vs whatever the current expansion's big bad is. There's only been 2 expansions where horde vs alliance was a main focus.

WC3 barely had horde vs alliance and it is generally considered the cornerstone of the franchise.

While AvH may not be "the cornerstone of the franchise" anymore, it was always there, lurking around. While technically there have been just two expansions where the faction war was the main plot (or one of them, anyway), it played a key role as a B plot in almost all xpacs with the exception of BC, SL and DF (coincidentally, the three xpacs with the worst story, even for WoW standards). Getting Alliance and Horde to band together against the big bad may have been OK in WC3, but it's been overdone to hell and back since then.

Btw, the Grand Unification of Danuser & co. doesn't fill up the missing pieces.

[Shadowferal]

I hear this kind of argument posted quite a lot, but I always wonder to myself what it was that MoP (or whatever the previous expansion du jour is) had that DF (or the current expansion) doesn't. When I compare MoP and DF feature-wise, they seem pretty similar all-in-all. So what exactly do you think DF lacks that MoP had, what makes DF feel more like a Happy Meal as opposed to the multi-course dinner you had previously?

The writing was far better, and made me feel more involved.
From the beginning your toon was put on notice, and factions were denounced as an excuse for a racist war. I never had that ingame. I mean in WotLK we had the battle in Undercity where Varian was pretty much a dick, but that went away. Not long afterwards in MoP we get involved with hozen/jinyu. And not long after "we" lamentably justify the earlier denouncement when the "jade dragon" accidentally gets destroyed by that fight with the hozen/jinyu. The upshot is MoP made me feel the storyline. I wanted to be a part of what came next. The Klaxxi...that honored me as a hero that deserved a hellish truth. Xuen that motivated me later..very much in yo face "I have selected three challengers for you to face. This may seem unfair... to a weakling."
And who can forget story time with Lorewalker Cho?

Mists of Pandaria was memorable for more good stuff than any bad. Ironically, part of that was...faction related of all the damned things.

[Gaidax]

Imagine WoW in a similar fashion. With a more modern engine that allowed for more dynamic gameplay and depth. Maybe use of cell shading to keep the essence and feel of the WoW look which by all rights has always had a bit more "cartoony" style to it.

This game is already out for 20 years and is still going strong.

It's a simple case of not trying to reinvent the bicycle, especially given that price of failure may end up being too high.

If we and Blizzard have learned something over the course of last few years is that trying to "improve" and "reinvent" WoW is far from such a great idea. People playing retail want to login, do their quests, dungeons and raids and go their merry way. And they want the game to look exactly how it looks now, without all the bullshit cell shading and what not, because that's not WoW's style plain and simple.

In the visuals department - Blizzard goes great lengths updating their engine with up-to-date technologies, without deviating from WoW's visual style and language. They can 100% slap anything here, they got RT support, DX12, almost all post processing techniques imaginable and what not - but they choose not to change visuals themself much, because it's important that WoW remains WoW.

And changing such core thing is far worse than Torghast or Shadowlands changes to the game, because those they can just effectively delete next expansion. While the visuals - that's a whole other can of worms, you won't be able to just "delete" those changes easily.

[Fuiking]

I'd have to concur that the "graphics > everything" is sort a console company lie they've been telling themselves for years... and ironically it's usually creators (like some Nintendo games/IPs, indie game creators, etc.) that will challenge that idea. While nice eyecandy is... well, nice, it's empty calories unless there's substance behind it. It may get the ill-informed into the door and move some product, but word-of-mouth (especially with how frequently we get even AAA games that are trash) is a very powerful motivator when it comes to the longevity of interest and sales in a game. This is why companies pay game 'journalists' with money or access in order to generate positivie buzz around their products, because there's more than enough people out there who will give you their honest opinions for free (even if they don't agree with each other).

It's very akin to the MCU trend, where they keep telling themselves that insane graphics and CGI are what will bring people in; while it may attract the ill-informed and those who will consume whatever regardless if it's good or not, a good and engaging story is what really fills the seats and keeps people coming back for more. Furthermore, it's become more apparent with interviews and behind-the-scenes information that even top executives in this form of media will lie to themselves and each other out of sheer pride because they think they're smarter than everyone else and can't be wrong... it sounds childish, and it is, but it's also sadly true.

Anyways, when it comes to WoW: getting better graphics at this point at best would yield extremely minimal renewed interest in the game. The problem isn't necessarily the graphics, it's all about content and engagement. Nothing wrong with bringing out the best graphics possible, but the best graphics with no substance is doomed to fail. However, if improved graphics came as a side effect of drastically improving or remaking the game engine for WoW, that miiiiiight be a different story. The ultimate problem is that even if there was an engine update (the odds of which are insanely small), that doesn't necessarily mean that the story and game design philosophies would change. Simply put, anything that would lead to improved graphics is likely not related to what keeps people away from WoW or fails to retain players.

As things stand now, the future of WoW is the classic system. Engagement and retention has been dwindling for years, with no end in sight, which makes large game updates (like expansions that we've gotten over the years) less and less viable in the eyes of Blizz. The cheapest and likely most effective way to preserve WoW while basically put it on maintenance mode is the classic system. It would still generate revenue while likely freeing up most of their devs who actively work on WoW for other projects that have way more money-making potential. This isn't a "WoW is dead!" response; this is just acknowledgement that even if Blizz wasn't on a losing streak with expansions in recent history, the game was going to decline over time... it's just a matter of how quickly. There's many great games out there that have stood the test of time, retaining a player base who will still actively play said games despite how old they are; WoW will likely have this, too, hence the classic system.

I'm already semi-retired, mostly due to health reasons and irl reasons.. (i dont care about mmorpgs anymore, as much as I loved WoW) but if thats the case I will deffo quit for good. I have zero interest in playing classic WoW.. I tried classic Vanilla and it didnt like it.. sure it was a trip down memory lane but also made me realize that as a 35+ adult with his life I cant properly no-life WoW anymore. Also I did everything in vanilla anyway. So doing it again felt like a waste of time.

[NineSpine]

I'm already semi-retired, mostly due to health reasons and irl reasons.. (i dont care about mmorpgs anymore, as much as I loved WoW) but if thats the case I will deffo quit for good. I have zero interest in playing classic WoW.. I tried classic Vanilla and it didnt like it.. sure it was a trip down memory lane but also made me realize that as a 35+ adult with his life I cant properly no-life WoW anymore. Also I did everything in vanilla anyway. So doing it again felt like a waste of time.

I've had completely the opposite experience. Classic feels like it respects my time more.

[Zodiark]

This game is already out for 20 years and is still going strong.

It's a simple case of not trying to reinvent the bicycle, especially given that price of failure may end up being too high.

If we and Blizzard have learned something over the course of last few years is that trying to "improve" and "reinvent" WoW is far from such a great idea. People playing retail want to login, do their quests, dungeons and raids and go their merry way. And they want the game to look exactly how it looks now, without all the bullshit cell shading and what not, because that's not WoW's style plain and simple.

In the visuals department - Blizzard goes great lengths updating their engine with up-to-date technologies, without deviating from WoW's visual style and language. They can 100% slap anything here, they got RT support, DX12, almost all post processing techniques imaginable and what not - but they choose not to change visuals themself much, because it's important that WoW remains WoW.

And changing such core thing is far worse than Torghast or Shadowlands changes to the game, because those they can just effectively delete next expansion. While the visuals - that's a whole other can of worms, you won't be able to just "delete" those changes easily.

There have been lots of fan art done that use some different art styles and still manage to keep the look and feel of WoW. Remember the look and feel of WoW was basically made to look and feel like a bit more updated WCIII. Even though I had suggested some backbone changes and a slight tweak to the core art style, I am a fan myself. I never would want WoW to NOT look like WoW. I feel like a lot of cell shaded games actually capture that LOOK of WoW better than WoW currently does. The look is just a cartoony slightly surreal style. Slipping a bit more into the cell shaded direction would in my opinion just give things a bit more dramatic and dreamlike quality.

One of my favorite movies as a child was Clash of the Titans from 1981. I loved the Ray Harryhausen claymation effects. Over the years as I grew I began to enjoy other styles of animation and effects but those as a child always captivated me. I once watched a documentary on Mr. Harryhausen's work and the commentator was interviewing several different people and it was said that when you watched these effects in the movies they were in you almost had to suspend your disbelief a bit which is ok because they were fantasy movies. The effects though unrealistic had an almost "Dreamlike" quality to them.

Hence my love for an almost surreal fantasy was born. Since then I pretty much have been of the mind that when It comes to my fantasy and adventure games sometimes less is more. When things look a bit like something from a dream then for me it creates a style in the world where almost anything and everything is possible.

WoW has done a good job of this over the years but I always felt like there could be more. More depth, more substance. Thats where the question came to my mind, what if? What IF? WoW COULD do more? What would that take? Maybe as technology has improved if a new engine was adapted perhaps they could keep that Dreamlike quality of the game but allow for more three dimensional gameplay and deeper exploration and adventure.

Maybe these things ARE possible today. But what about the things that we don't have? Maybe procedurally generated dungeons would add another layer of depth to things. Maybe being able to interact with the actual environment? I understand in a massively large game with all types of different players you have to be careful because interactions with the world have to be controlled somehow. Imagine everyone digging holes all over the place. But What if with the phasing technology that they cold make it so your little corner of the world was able to be manipulated somehow to some degree.

What if they had actual NPC's that actually did work, like fix things and fill in holes, or repair things like actual broken bridges and landmarks within the game? Imagine waking up and logging in and asking yourself, "I wonder what those little gremlins got up to last night?"

My ideas were never meant to subtract from the look and feeling of WoW and it's world but to add to it! I've seen things in multiple different games that look and feel good. I feel like if WoW became a bit more of a living, breathing, virtual world that it would only add to the game experience.

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I love bullshitting about game design. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that.

If everyone is having trouble understanding the context of your point, the problem is probably how you are communicating, because to me your whole attitude here reads like "I came up with this brilliant thing, and you all just don't understand how brilliant it is". For example, I provided a whole bunch of acritiques of your ideas in my first post and your response was just to reiterate how great your ideas are. You ignored the actual substance of what I said, and that seems to be how you are handling every response. You agree with what you agree with, but then you flat out disregard and do not address anything else.

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Most Daily Quest hubs were part of an ongoing story. You would do the quests for awhile and there would be story breakthroughs at certain points in progression, often with new quests unlocking.

The pacing is very, very different. You used to stop at a hub and grab a bunch of quests and then all of those quests would overlap in the same area so you would do most of them as one little trip out into the area. With World Quests, it's just zip to a single quest, zip to a single quest, zip to a single quest.

I certainly appreciate the advances in quest design, although the reliance on gimmicks and minigames is grating.

Read my above reply. I understand the downsides and critiques. This isn't my first rodeo. I have been playing MMORPGS over 23 years now. Sometimes If I don't acknowledge a comment or reply that doesn't mean I haven't taken it into consideration. Just that I can't comment on and share my reactions to each and every point. I'd be here all day and I have a business to run myself. I was up till 2am in the morning at one of my shops putting out "fires", in a figurative sense to meet a deadline this morning. See I am into fabrications. I actually build with my own hands and the help of many others whom I have brought together based on my dreams.

My whole point of this topic is to share my thoughts. I don't know about you but whenever I play these games I don't just sit there and stare at the screen wandering from one quest to another aimlessly. I am thinking. Dreaming. Imagining things and ideas. How things COULD be. If only... Imagining whole scenarios play out from the most mundane things within the game. Then the inevitable answer comes to mind. That things just aren't like my dreams sometimes. Then I ask myself another question. What would it take to make those dreams come true?

Hence this topic and those like it are born. I collate all the different points and perspectives and take things into consideration. I just do not always immediately acknowledge or say anything but that doesn't mean I haven't given an idea any thought.

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If you haven't played Star Wars: Fallen Order or the sequel Star Wars: Survivor I HIGHLY recommend them. They're the best SW games I've ever played and I'd put both of them in my top 5 all time games. They're not as open ended as Skyrim, but damn is the gameplay amazing. The story is solid to excellent and the gameplay is S tier, imo.

I have that first one you mentioned but haven't had the time to play it much. I do plan on it though in the future to give it a proper playthrough. The second game I will probably get to add to my collection when I have the time to actually sit and play it. I own a rather large and extensive collection of games that I have obtained throught the decades all the way from the 90's. There are amazing titles in there that I still haven't played. Like the Shin Megami Tensei games like Noctourne.

[Kithelle]

wrong. its one of the biggest wrongs in gaming. ive seen countless video games push great visuals fall flat on their face.

Not to mention mmorpgs aren't known for their graphics, they're generally kept lower for accessibility

[Goat7]

the longevity of WoW will continue until Riot's mmorpg comes out, THEN ITS DEAD TO ME FOREVER!

[trimble]

Why worry about it?

Worse case scenario you just boot up another game.

[Aucald]

The writing was far better, and made me feel more involved.
From the beginning your toon was put on notice, and factions were denounced as an excuse for a racist war. I never had that ingame. I mean in WotLK we had the battle in Undercity where Varian was pretty much a dick, but that went away. Not long afterwards in MoP we get involved with hozen/jinyu. And not long after "we" lamentably justify the earlier denouncement when the "jade dragon" accidentally gets destroyed by that fight with the hozen/jinyu. The upshot is MoP made me feel the storyline. I wanted to be a part of what came next. The Klaxxi...that honored me as a hero that deserved a hellish truth. Xuen that motivated me later..very much in yo face "I have selected three challengers for you to face. This may seem unfair... to a weakling."
And who can forget story time with Lorewalker Cho?

Mists of Pandaria was memorable for more good stuff than any bad. Ironically, part of that was...faction related of all the damned things.

That's a listing of high points from MoP, so what comparatively do you dislike about DF in its story? How do its beats differ from those of MoP, what analogs or parallels don't seem to hold up? Does it not have any parallels to speak of?

[NineSpine]

There have been lots of fan art done that use some different art styles and still manage to keep the look and feel of WoW. Remember the look and feel of WoW was basically made to look and feel like a bit more updated WCIII. Even though I had suggested some backbone changes and a slight tweak to the core art style, I am a fan myself. I never would want WoW to NOT look like WoW. I feel like a lot of cell shaded games actually capture that LOOK of WoW better than WoW currently does. The look is just a cartoony slightly surreal style. Slipping a bit more into the cell shaded direction would in my opinion just give things a bit more dramatic and dreamlike quality.

One of my favorite movies as a child was Clash of the Titans from 1981. I loved the Ray Harryhausen claymation effects. Over the years as I grew I began to enjoy other styles of animation and effects but those as a child always captivated me. I once watched a documentary on Mr. Harryhausen's work and the commentator was interviewing several different people and it was said that when you watched these effects in the movies they were in you almost had to suspend your disbelief a bit which is ok because they were fantasy movies. The effects though unrealistic had an almost "Dreamlike" quality to them.

Hence my love for an almost surreal fantasy was born. Since then I pretty much have been of the mind that when It comes to my fantasy and adventure games sometimes less is more. When things look a bit like something from a dream then for me it creates a style in the world where almost anything and everything is possible.

WoW has done a good job of this over the years but I always felt like there could be more. More depth, more substance. Thats where the question came to my mind, what if? What IF? WoW COULD do more? What would that take? Maybe as technology has improved if a new engine was adapted perhaps they could keep that Dreamlike quality of the game but allow for more three dimensional gameplay and deeper exploration and adventure.

Maybe these things ARE possible today. But what about the things that we don't have? Maybe procedurally generated dungeons would add another layer of depth to things. Maybe being able to interact with the actual environment? I understand in a massively large game with all types of different players you have to be careful because interactions with the world have to be controlled somehow. Imagine everyone digging holes all over the place. But What if with the phasing technology that they cold make it so your little corner of the world was able to be manipulated somehow to some degree.

What if they had actual NPC's that actually did work, like fix things and fill in holes, or repair things like actual broken bridges and landmarks within the game? Imagine waking up and logging in and asking yourself, "I wonder what those little gremlins got up to last night?"

My ideas were never meant to subtract from the look and feeling of WoW and it's world but to add to it! I've seen things in multiple different games that look and feel good. I feel like if WoW became a bit more of a living, breathing, virtual world that it would only add to the game experience.

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Read my above reply. I understand the downsides and critiques. This isn't my first rodeo. I have been playing MMORPGS over 23 years now. Sometimes If I don't acknowledge a comment or reply that doesn't mean I haven't taken it into consideration. Just that I can't comment on and share my reactions to each and every point. I'd be here all day and I have a business to run myself. I was up till 2am in the morning at one of my shops putting out "fires", in a figurative sense to meet a deadline this morning. See I am into fabrications. I actually build with my own hands and the help of many others whom I have brought together based on my dreams.

My whole point of this topic is to share my thoughts. I don't know about you but whenever I play these games I don't just sit there and stare at the screen wandering from one quest to another aimlessly. I am thinking. Dreaming. Imagining things and ideas. How things COULD be. If only... Imagining whole scenarios play out from the most mundane things within the game. Then the inevitable answer comes to mind. That things just aren't like my dreams sometimes. Then I ask myself another question. What would it take to make those dreams come true?

Hence this topic and those like it are born. I collate all the different points and perspectives and take things into consideration. I just do not always immediately acknowledge or say anything but that doesn't mean I haven't given an idea any thought.

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I have that first one you mentioned but haven't had the time to play it much. I do plan on it though in the future to give it a proper playthrough. The second game I will probably get to add to my collection when I have the time to actually sit and play it. I own a rather large and extensive collection of games that I have obtained throught the decades all the way from the 90's. There are amazing titles in there that I still haven't played. Like the Shin Megami Tensei games like Noctourne.

You are still doing it. I'm sorry, but you just sound like you want people to listen to you, not to discuss things.

[Utrrabbit]

It wouldn't be economically feasible to just update the physics engine on some fundamental level, but leave graphics untouched. At that point, you might as well remake the graphics engine as well. And that's probably not going to happen until and unless they decide to make WoW2 (and they very well might never do that).

Adjustments to the engine are one thing, but to have Zelda-like physics would require massive changes.

They LITERALLY remade the entire engine during SL from the back end. The graphics are a aestetic choice. They would make them look thevaamd even if it was in the unreal engine.

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the longevity of WoW will continue until Riot's mmorpg comes out, THEN ITS DEAD TO ME FOREVER!

Nah just like new world. Riot's mmo will crash and burn within 2 months.

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I've had completely the opposite experience. Classic feels like it respects my time more.

Im sorry but how?

In classic you are FORCED to farm for hours a day id you raid

In classic you are FORCED to be a certain class if yoi want to be viable for either pvp or pve

In classic you are FORCED to spend your time farming boring rep by grinding mobs all day.

Retail literally lets you do ANYTHING you want and always be viable in other content and your class/spec is always viable

[hulkgor]

Pretty happy with WoW's direction at the moment, and will play it for the foreseeable future as long as they have mythic+ and raiding available.

[Metriss]

In classic you are FORCED to farm for hours a day id you raid

In classic you are FORCED to be a certain class if yoi want to be viable for either pvp or pve

In classic you are FORCED to spend your time farming boring rep by grinding mobs all day.

Retail literally lets you do ANYTHING you want and always be viable in other content and your class/spec is always viable

I'm sorry, but... what? Not only do you not have to do any of that in classic as none of the content is tuned around doing that, but retail you are behind if you don't time 10 M+ 16's a week, especially now that the best upgrade currency only comes from M+ 16s or mythic raid, and getting currency from mythic raid takes 10x as much effort and is severely limited. M+ is infinitely farmable while you can only kill a mythic boss once per week. Most of the best gear in retail comes from the vault so missing a vault week is a massive disadvantage while in classic if you miss a raid it's no big deal -- it just means fewer people will need loot next time increasing your chances of getting loot. In retail when you miss a week of grinding you just miss a free max ilvl item.

[Zodiark]

You are still doing it. I'm sorry, but you just sound like you want people to listen to you, not to discuss things.

That's your take. That's fine. I just feel like I have a lot of thoughts. I like to take the time on here to put them into words. So people might better understand my point of view. You say I don't like to discuss things. I do though. I feel like it's easy to come at someone with criticisms rather than offer suggestions or alternate points of view. So far in this whole discussion thread what have you really said other than "nope sorry, game is good as is, too much work involved to change anything, love it or leave it". I mean that's basically what I'm getting from you.

You haven't articulated your point of view, you haven't offered any "constructive" criticisms. All you've really done is try to reframe what YOU think I'm trying to do. If you have something to add other than what you've already said about this not being a good idea then by all means speak up. I actually took the time to think about my replies. Maybe I'm a bit wordy. But I don't think that's a crime.

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I'm already semi-retired, mostly due to health reasons and irl reasons.. (i dont care about mmorpgs anymore, as much as I loved WoW) but if thats the case I will deffo quit for good. I have zero interest in playing classic WoW.. I tried classic Vanilla and it didnt like it.. sure it was a trip down memory lane but also made me realize that as a 35+ adult with his life I cant properly no-life WoW anymore. Also I did everything in vanilla anyway. So doing it again felt like a waste of time.

Yeah I would have to agree to an extent. I have played Classic and while it is a fun diversion and trip down memory lane as you put it there is this feeling of been there done that. Also it's much slower paced so in spite of what someone else said I feel like it DOESN'T respect my time. I can play for a few hours and only complete a few quests and make minor progress. Mainly because I don't like to turn things into a speed race. Meanwhile in retail I feel like I can get a lot more done in that same timeframe. Run a few dungeons, make decent progress on an alt, hunt rares, do a few world quests, whatever.

IF however WoW came up with a Classic+ where they made entirely new content, (dungeons, raids, areas, etc), then I would be all for trying it out as I would enjoy seeing new things. WOW classic in it's current form to me just feels like a "solved-game", raids are pretty much on auto-pilot for the few that exist, dungeons are a known quantity with seasoned players running them blindfolded by this point. People have everything down to a science where world buff stacking, meta gaming and everything else is king. Sure you can just run around solo and mess around but that leads me back to my original points of contention.