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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The Forsaken still need a starting experience with their neighbouring areas being thematically linked to them
    This is generally why more places arent fixed like desolace.

    If druids and shamans could just turn the world into paradise it'd take away from the appeal of exploring different, rugged, sometines corrupted, lands.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    This thread is dedicated to ideas, speculation, headcanons and solutions on how to develop the races and factions of Warcraft develop their kingdom and/or nation to make it more suitable or prosperous and peaceful for them, to develop their economy, culture and power, and to solve the many more or less grave problems and constant internal threats that these races and factions must often face whenever it's lack of food and other ressources, disunity and political tensions, criminality, pests and recurring foes such as centaurs, gnolls, quilboars, troggs, undeads, et...

    What are the possible solutions you would use to solve these and on how to better showcase and use the territories ?
    Tbh, blizzard need a book like the old Warcraft RPG, it's insane, people love that sort of shit, and yet they don't do one - because they don't want to limit themselves by any restrictive numbers.. and creating new content to allow them to do what they want, not realising, the lakc of detail makes the whole thing feel cheaper and shallow, so much more could be done with depth and detail.. sigh anyway, to answer your question.


    An Enhanced Night elf State
    As for my vision of night elves, they'd have been as vast and varied as humans, their long history would spawn even broader communities,
    • You'd have the civilization types i.e. traders, diplomats, arcane users, priests, scholars etc restoring their cities , joining long lost communities like those in Suramar, Darnassus and Eldre'thalas.
    • But then you'd also have the deep forest types too, totally content with nature, and to be fully in it, reclusive, exclusive, these would be the families of the druids, who'd keep the druid (not necessarily night elf) view of the splendour of nature no eleven craft could match.
    • You'd have the fel demon Illidari, they'd be angry but very possessive of their race, hardcore , taking the tough decisions, ruthless against the legion but not evil -, they'd be shunned by the people even after being recognised as heroes, because fel is foul, it's that simple, yet they'd be admired, have great glory, but the almost impossible high price they have to pay would keep them few and far between, however they'd gain recruits after devastating wars like the one in WC3 and cata.
    • The crown though would be the sisterhood, the priest caste, retaining the core of the identity , the common glue across the lot, and the heart of what it is to be kaldorei - child of the stars, of which we'd now flesh out their lore to show you the many layered depths of what that means. you'd have priests in city temples, academies, but also in forests, scholar priests, religious priests, but also warriors priests, scouts and defenders. Magic started with the priests, arcane magic did, and while the mages are concerned with practical applications and have great expertise of it, the priests have the oldest and most basic knowledge of it.And their focus is life. Life through magic, life in magic, life with magic.

    Nations
    You'd also have different nations of night elves, Eldre'thalas would be nation, so would Hyjal, as would Ashenvale and Teldrassil, Azsuna and Suramar would be two different nations also.

    Allies
    I would also have a lot more of Cenarians involved too across all their groups including the fel one, but most prevalent in the druidic ones and the priest one. I would flesh them out.
    Chimera would be more intelligent, like talking animals, and the dragons, green and blue in particular would be involved with them because they're an ancient race, and the dragons would just gel more with them than any other race, even though dragons would like humans and others too.


    The priesthood would actually be much bigger if not the biggest touching all aspects of life amongst them both civilization and rural forest, arcane and nature like both the pre-sundering civilization and the long vigil showed.

    Culture
    Common amongst all night elves would be a defined star culture, things like star births, destiny by their stars, even cities ordered by the constellations and ley lines. Tree love would be linked to the stars and it would be discovered their nature love stemmed from climbing trees to be closer to the stars. The different roles of men and women, and yes, in this community they'd be distinct. I know it may not sound very woke, but every community will have mixture,e xcepet you'd notice that certain ones are dominated by certain sexes.

    The preisthood and the military are dominated by females
    The druids and mage orders are dominated by males

    However their are sects within all that seem to have much greater gender balance e.g. the blackmoon sect is quite mixed, as are the Highborne, the Dreamwardens too as are the rogues/spies. Also even amongst the dominance you will ontice sub sects, like the cat shapeshifters are mostly female and the star augurs are mostly male ( a cross between mage and priest)

    Infrastructure and Terrain
    Therefore their civilization and forest would be full of gigantic trees and tall towers reaching for the skies. All aspects, priesthood, druidism, magecraft would have a heavy star focus as well as a nature element.

    Also common is they are nocturnal, i would elaborate on ears too, whiles game graphics fix eleven ears in position, they can actually move, night elves can curve the tips upwards like the Nightborne when addicted/jittery/frenzied have, or outwards when ashamed, the angle orientates upwards like in high elf ears when concentration hard or coming to alert, and the normal position actually is position of rest and serenity.

    The Well and Physical Characteristics
    The well of eternity would continue to be their focus, I found it stupid to have the well play such a mammoth role in the pre-sundering and long vigil and WC3, only to just like have no relevance in night elf activity post wow -it's silly, especially after writing they come from the well, transformed further by it, and their purple skin and silver eyes are attributed to that arcane essence, not to mention it at the heart of everything related tot hem, their origin, their development, their greatness, their weakness, their rise, fall ,their tree, their desire, their world.. sigh..

    Golden eyes would not be associated with nature, but with great destiny - the large golden eye population died in the burning of Teldrassil, but they were the ones who also formed a part of the new Ardenweald see, something they would not have been a part of if they didn't study the druidic arts, after that event, golden eyes returned to being very rare amongst night elves, and where it was thought that it was associated with nature, this was realised to have not been the case. However emerald green eyes seemed to develop in those greatest with the nature ability and usage, golden eyes hides those unless very strong in the dream...but now, post Teldrassil, it's become quite clear be associated with great nature sensitivity and would be different from the acidic fel blaze in DH ilidari eyes..

    Other features unique to callings would include antler stubs for highly attuned nature elves, star tattoos like Tyrande has on her night warrior model for highly arcane atruned, and star features like Tyrande as avatar of Elune has for priests especially gifted.

    Worgen
    Additional night elf communities would be night elven worgen returned from the dream - they'd be an almost exclusive nature based group, whereas the Nightborne would an almost exclusive civilization based group with the bulk of the night elves haivng both.

    Furthermore they would be much stronger with the Draenei

    They'd be a whole chapter on the worgen night elves returning, they'd have different models for worgen form, also take different animal man shapes similar to trolls priests in Zul'Gurub, Arrakoa for similar bird men, as well as Saberon cat men, Werebear men etc, which players can choose their beast man form. the night elf form would have customisable antlers and half animal features, like you can choose bird wringed arms, or faun legs or branch arms, choose leaf hair instead of normal hair.

    Void Elves
    They'd also be an entire chapter on the void elves, with initial friendship with Highborne groups, but then trouble with the priest groups which eventually ends in acceptance and some void elf initiates to the priesthood of Elune dark mon sect, they'd also be druid relations as d night elven druids seek void elf help for the emerald dream while void elf nature magic scholars see it as an unprecedented move to expand both their nature knowledge and void study over nature.

    International Relations
    Some night elf communities are far more open than others. e.g. Darnassians and Suramarians are quite open to the outside world, whereas Hyjilians and Shen'dralar are not, with the former still nearly being as deadly to outsiders if you come near the well. It's the Hyjallians that control the Well of eternity.

    Their politics are all very different. Darnassians are well into the alliance, and international protection affairs, Shaldorei are also, enthusaistic about theexploring hte world fostering relationships even though their blood elf friednship brings them horde its houdl be noted that no one is excluisveely horde or alliance.

    Hyjallians are almost entirely reclusive and discourage outsiders. While Val'sharans though also reclusive would welcome visitors, just that nobody really ever goes there /shrug.

    Eldre'thalas and the Shen'dralar are obsessed with former glory and restoring the kaldorei civilization, they opened their doors to a priesthood temple and are the only group that actively pursue Thalassian relationships, declaring their capital a home for all elves, especially high elves. The Order of Elune's sentinel training garrison and HQ is still in Feralas and they are on good terms with the Eldre'thalas citizens, the Shen'dralar liking the protection they afford and hoping to restore the grandeur of all things kaldorei but in a pre-sundering version of it.

    Internal Politics
    Use of the Well for the "future of elf kind" is the biggest internal issue the various night elf communities have, with fears of addiction and misuse, but also the necessary of having power to protect themselves from aggressors, foes,, like the legion and void lords as well as the need to rebuild and restore is another night elf side story that eventually ends in the accord of Orders - where the heads of all the various orders and castes come to an agreement. Elune and the Well is the bonding factor amongst all their kind even if they have different friends and allies.


    Another big drive is recruits. While natural talent usually determines whether you end a mage, druid or priest, the Moonguard, Illidari, Highborne, Order of Elune, the Sentinels and the Druids are out for recruits. War brings a lot of recruits to the Illidari - who accept Eredar now too, but the Order of Elune opens up to all elves, the sentinels also recruit amongst the Worgen. The Moonguard work predominantly with Kaldorei shal'dorei and Shen'dralar stock.

    The Lost Night Elf Castes
    Naga stories develop to, with some Satyr and naga re-joining the night elves - yielding possibility of new allied races

    Farondis and Ravencrests are undead that continue to exist with developments too, they are their own nation, the Ravencrests and dark rangers actually eventually come together and are sort of the undead wing of the night elf race/faction with the Farondis who look for a release from the curse - they gain a massive step when they are able to somehow "phase"" into full life at certain times of the year, this makes for a very interesting story and feature for this nation of unliving/living elves, that eventually ties into the shadowlands and the Ardenweald, diversifying their arcane arts with death magic expertise.

    Despite other versions of druidism existing for Zandalari torlls, Kul'tirans and now Tauren the kaldorei Canarion Circle still remains the most prestigious and acclaimed one. The Farondis restore the Nar'thalas academy as a rival centre for magic, they seem to draw in ancient types though, like dragons, dracthyr, Draenei etc, human bodies unable to compete with the super spans of these races

  3. #23
    For the Sin'dorei, I would have the following:

    The Illidari as the outer kingdoms defenders, perhaps working with the Farstriders.
    A clear display of Sin'dorei Arcane Mastery and how the Magisters of Quel'Thalas maintain Ban'dinoriel along with the powers of the Sunwell
    Thas'alah being regrown and this introducing Blood Elf Druids. Sin'dorei take on an Arcane Mastery form to Druidism, where they use arcane magic and bend nature to their will. It's a very ancient Highborne-like way of being a druid and brings in some of that old Sunfury Botanist vibe.
    Blood Elf Mages and Blood Elf Druids working side by side with the Magi connecting the leylines of the new tree to Ban'dinoriel, ensuring it's protection.
    A new order of Female Blood Elf Warlocks takes over the Sanctum with Shinfel Blightsworn as the leader. This is the counter to the male-led Blood Elf Mage organisation. It also follows on that due to most Mages from W3 being female high/blood elves, then it's a continuation that those women have delved further into their magical mastery.

    Liadrin and Hauldoran continue to lead the Blood Knights and Farstriders respectively. The Blood Knights primarily defend the Sunwell as the Illidari can now defend Southern Quel'Thalas with the aid of the Farstriders.

  4. #24
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamevizier View Post
    No, not really. It is a natural way of progression and evolution for civilizations that come im close contact with one another.

    nope, not at all, if you look at the world today, you still se civilizations and nations hating each other and just don't fuck with each other with the fear of WW3 and nuclear warfare. You need centuries if not more to stop grudge, and if the grudge is literaly GENOCIDE, you do NOT let it go that easy

    you want both factions to be locked in a constant state of xenophobia, (aka warhammer factions) always attacking races of the other faction "just because" and still have an interesting story in the game. the story gets stale when theres no progression within it, thats why the horde vs. alliance story in MoP was okay, but in BfA it was stale because it was literally the same thing as MoP again.
    It seems to work fine with warhammer?

    There is progression to be have, whittin the faction, progression on the races and how they interact with each other, with the world and the enemy.

    The difference with MOP and BFA is not because the story of faction war became stale, tis because they have incompetent writers who decided to copy their own shit.

    Its like Saying Tolkien story can get a bit stale, because while the move lord of the rings is good, the show rings of power is shit, no, tolkien work is great, same way the factions and the conflict, the difference is having bad writers in charge

    some blood elves are already part the alliance via void elves. and about your point of blood elves never be willing to serve a faction that fucked them over is moot. heck, blood elves are literally aligned with orcs, trolls and undead ...well i dont really need to tell you about the history of blood elves do i?
    And void elves are still one of the stupidest things they ever done, garbage lore to justfy the whining of one fanbase that can't let it go.

    No its not moot, the alliance attempt to genocide the blood elves in their lowest moment, and once again in wow when they were in desperate need of help. The orcs and the undead literally saved then from extinction. They were the ones who land a hand

    That is the kind of development we had when factions and races matters, faction tension, because the elves did not like this, it was a union because a common enemy, the alliance, cause no matter what they did, the alliance was worse. And the undead lider was literally their ranger general that died to protect then and liberate their people from the rest of the scourge

    Making "but some blood elves just want to lick alliance boots" is the kind of shallow, low effort and bad development that wow have these days, and why the factions are gone and the lore is ruined.
    the game used to be popular and now its not, its not because of faction conflict, if that was the case BfA and MoP should've been the most popular expansions.
    I assure you, the game lost its popularity by ruining the lore, a ton of people just don't give two shits about it, you can't be immersed in something that stinks so much, people now just log to do progression and get out, that's it.

    Unlike classic, like you mentioned, the immersion is way bigger, things matter, the lore was better.

    The conflict brought development, without conflict, we stay like this, stagnated, with then focusing only on some leaders at a time

  5. #25
    Having a solution for something implies there is any problem with the current thing. Which there isn't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    For the Sin'dorei, I would have the following:

    The Illidari as the outer kingdoms defenders, perhaps working with the Farstriders.
    A clear display of Sin'dorei Arcane Mastery and how the Magisters of Quel'Thalas maintain Ban'dinoriel along with the powers of the Sunwell
    Thas'alah being regrown and this introducing Blood Elf Druids. Sin'dorei take on an Arcane Mastery form to Druidism, where they use arcane magic and bend nature to their will. It's a very ancient Highborne-like way of being a druid and brings in some of that old Sunfury Botanist vibe.
    Blood Elf Mages and Blood Elf Druids working side by side with the Magi connecting the leylines of the new tree to Ban'dinoriel, ensuring it's protection.
    A new order of Female Blood Elf Warlocks takes over the Sanctum with Shinfel Blightsworn as the leader. This is the counter to the male-led Blood Elf Mage organisation. It also follows on that due to most Mages from W3 being female high/blood elves, then it's a continuation that those women have delved further into their magical mastery.

    Liadrin and Hauldoran continue to lead the Blood Knights and Farstriders respectively. The Blood Knights primarily defend the Sunwell as the Illidari can now defend Southern Quel'Thalas with the aid of the Farstriders.
    Liadrin should just swear abstinence and never pe active in military service ever again. And Halduron is a filthy traitor who aided Vereesa the butcher of Dalaran. They are not worthy to represent the blood elves in any form. And Bob must be banished to patrolling Ghostlands again like in the past until the scourge finally finishes him.

  6. #26
    Draenei should have solved the radiations problem on Azeruremyst and Bloodmist Isles and build a new capital city next to the Exodar, more like Karabor and Shattrah with updated architecture on Azuremyst, while Bloodmyst should have a smaller town with some red crystals and magic energies to differenciate it from the new capital.

    Valaar's Berth should be turned into a proper harbor and start full trade with the Night Elves and the rest of the Alliance and neutral races.

    There should be open fields and farms with elekks and talbuks, an observatory to observe and study the Great Dark Beyond and other planets and moons, crystal caves where Argunite and Draenite crystals and other kind of crystals are grown by the Draenei, a giant library with many ancient and magnificent books and holograms and memory crystals, and a big magnificent light temple where Velen and the Naaru and other high priests and priestesses such as Ishanna would reside, an embassy and quarter for Night Elves and Furbolgs residents, etc...

    And there would be for defense a series of guard and defense towers with light energy beam cannons built by and the Lightforged, energy shields and other magic crystals and runes for various defensive purposes such as absorbing radiations, or magic gases and biological weapons similar to the Red Mist that turned Draenei into Broken or Lost Ones. As well as automatons such as Lightframes.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    Draenei should have solved the radiations problem on Azeruremyst and Bloodmist Isles and build a new capital city next to the Exodar, more like Karabor and Shattrah with updated architecture on Azuremyst, while Bloodmyst should have a smaller town with some red crystals and magic energies to differenciate it from the new capital.
    They should have examined Gnomeregan as well.
    But then again their technology is why my revision doesn't add them in the lore until much later.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    They should have examined Gnomeregan as well.
    But then again their technology is why my revision doesn't add them in the lore until much later.
    Well yes, the two races should have worked together on finding a way to remove Gnomeregan radiations, as well as on Light technology to help cure Leper Gnomes.

    One of the greatest wasted opportunities of cooperation between two races in Wow.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    Draenei should have solved the radiations problem on Azeruremyst and Bloodmist Isles and build a new capital city next to the Exodar, more like Karabor and Shattrah with updated architecture on Azuremyst, while Bloodmyst should have a smaller town with some red crystals and magic energies to differenciate it from the new capital.

    Valaar's Berth should be turned into a proper harbor and start full trade with the Night Elves and the rest of the Alliance and neutral races.

    There should be open fields and farms with elekks and talbuks, an observatory to observe and study the Great Dark Beyond and other planets and moons, crystal caves where Argunite and Draenite crystals and other kind of crystals are grown by the Draenei, a giant library with many ancient and magnificent books and holograms and memory crystals, and a big magnificent light temple where Velen and the Naaru and other high priests and priestesses such as Ishanna would reside, an embassy and quarter for Night Elves and Furbolgs residents, etc...

    And there would be for defense a series of guard and defense towers with light energy beam cannons built by and the Lightforged, energy shields and other magic crystals and runes for various defensive purposes such as absorbing radiations, or magic gases and biological weapons similar to the Red Mist that turned Draenei into Broken or Lost Ones. As well as automatons such as Lightframes.
    With the death of O'ros in Legion, the Draenei should have built a new Auchindoun to house his core; this could be the use of Bloodmyst in a revamp. Plus the death of so many of their people in that expac should have given them reason to reconsider their Vigilant tech.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    With the death of O'ros in Legion, the Draenei should have built a new Auchindoun to house his core; this could be the use of Bloodmyst in a revamp. Plus the death of so many of their people in that expac should have given them reason to reconsider their Vigilant tech.
    That's another idea. They could also transfer here the graves and bones of their kin that were killed on Draenor during their genocide, and the tombs of Auchindoun since the Outland is slowly desintegrating.

  11. #31
    For the Orcs, to truly build a harbor for Orgrimmar, relied directly to the city and with real infrastructures instead of just the few docks and towers of Bladefist Bay.

    Also perhaps a bigger and more viable airport for zeppelins and gunships.

    Find other and more reliable sources of lumber than Ashenvale that is the land of the Night Elves, such as in Northrend or in other wooden regions in Kalimdor and/or the Eastern Kingdoms.

    Clean the sources of water from Goblin pollution, find better ways of irrigation and water preservation, and build underground or special farms with edible plants able to grow in the desert.

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