Prot paladins are over performing, WHAT A BIG SURPRISE.

[Thalrend]

There is not a big gap in the representation, the same names are presented as multiple different teams so half the paladins you see are the same players, paladin has great utility and takes less damage, all its other performance is similar to other tanks, you could buff all other tanks 20% but paladin would still win with its utility since nothing can interupt or provide anywhere near its support as a tank

Paladin doesnt do more damage than other tanks, or does more healing, it just takes a little less damage and gives the team more utility than every other tank in the game including a battle res, why bring a druid tank when paladin is just better, nerfs of buffs wont change how good paladin is.

So you are saying that paladins are much better than other tanks because of their utility. Oh my I forgot that your utility wasnt part of your kit and I forgot that not all nerfs has to be numbers based.

You think the nerfs only can be liek YOU TAKE 10 moar damage bro? Huh? If your interrupt utility is your biggest suit for example there can be ways to tone down that. That was just an random example. There can be ways to nerf something that doesnt mean slashing their hp to half or some caveman methods.

And yes most of the top 100-200 chars are from same players because they also play other characters because they are also the best players in the world. That doesnt change the fact that paladin is over represented there. And its not because people love playing paladins and nothing else.

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That website doesn't do what you think it does. It just shows the actual representation of the spec against its success.
If all the people who played Prot Paladin in those keys switched to whatever the second tank is, that tank would then become "S TIER."

Its basically just a popularity contest.
Does not mean any spec needs to be buffed or nerfed.

Keep in mind this season is also perfect for paladin. They heavily counter many of the hardest dungeon mechanics and all of the new affixes.
So unless you plan is to nerf their utility out of existence, you aren't going to be changing the fact that they are being played heavily atm.

You think that people who wanna push their keys to hardest and spend a lot of time in keys per day doesn't gravite towards the best tank option and that a lot of people playing the same said tank spec is just a fucking random coicindence? Because I can say that if you buffs another tank to a reasonable degree that MIGHT effect the leaderboard one might say. And utility is part of a tanks kit and can be toned down/changed/brought up.

Nobody is asking for nerfing paladin damage by x amount, god forbid if the game devs does changes in a elegant way.

[Delekii]

That website doesn't do what you think it does. It just shows the actual representation of the spec against its success.
If all the people who played Prot Paladin in those keys switched to whatever the second tank is, that tank would then become "S TIER."

Its basically just a popularity contest.
Does not mean any spec needs to be buffed or nerfed.

Keep in mind this season is also perfect for paladin. They heavily counter many of the hardest dungeon mechanics and all of the new affixes.
So unless you plan is to nerf their utility out of existence, you aren't going to be changing the fact that they are being played heavily atm.

No, it isn't. Everyone playing tanks in high keys is trying to push that tank into those keys.People are succeeding more on Prot paladin than they are with other tanks.

The effect you mentioned exists, but it is not the primary driver. People don't just choose to prop up a spec and hey presto, it is now the best tank. You are overly representing an existing, but not massively important, confounding variable.

[Glorious Leader]

Its basically just a popularity contest. .

This is silly. Why are they popular with the specific group of players pushing keys? Do you think its because those dudes are nerds irl who larp as paladins? Do you think its because they have all the shiniest armor? Or could it may be that their represented very highly because they're really fucking overpowered? Yes they're popular, thank you for stating the most obvious conclusion. Now ask yourself why...

[Sufifi]

Its basically just a popularity contest.

This is silly.

It kind of is though, imo the reason why Prot War is so low on Subcreation right now isn't because of how intrinsically good or bad the spec is, it's because a lot of people flocked to Prot Warr when the spec was considered the best in early DF and the same people rerolled into Prot Pal after the buffs. Prot War did get nerfed in the meantime but the nerfs were minimal and Prot Warr didn't get nerfed any further, it was still considered the 2nd best tank at the end of DF.

TLDR : Any Tier List should be considered with a (huge) grain of salt, subcreation's way of ranking specs is far from perfect and popularity does get taken into account in their rankings.

[Apatrida]

Jesus a class performs best at a M+ season, the world will end! Let them have their 3 months, who cares at this point of the game

[kamuimac]

Yeah you can call this a shitpost, but literally month ago before the rework when they were buffing the prot paladins damage, I told that they will be the S tier tank and it would not even be close.

Turns out the first 60 tanks in raider io, 40 of them are prot paladins. WHAT A FUCKING COINCIDENCE. Nobody see this coming, even tho it was clear as day and i get so much hate from bloody prot paladin mains.

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-charac...tank/0#content

https://mplus.subcreation.net/all-affixes.html

So about the nerf? Since you know we buffed this spec when THEY WERE S TIER and a S tier rework on top. Cmon now? Where is all the bloody paladin mains crying that buffs were not going to effect anything eh?

so what you say even in ultra meta community 33 % of tanks dont play supposed meta ?

just lol .

average players is horrible no matter which tank spec they play

[kenn9530]

So you are saying that paladins are much better than other tanks because of their utility. Oh my I forgot that your utility wasnt part of your kit and I forgot that not all nerfs has to be numbers based.

You think the nerfs only can be liek YOU TAKE 10 moar damage bro? Huh? If your interrupt utility is your biggest suit for example there can be ways to tone down that. That was just an random example. There can be ways to nerf something that doesnt mean slashing their hp to half or some caveman methods.

And yes most of the top 100-200 chars are from same players because they also play other characters because they are also the best players in the world. That doesnt change the fact that paladin is over represented there. And its not because people love playing paladins and nothing else.

You are just complainging about something that is the reality of a game, there is always going to be a strongest tank, best healer, highest dps, paladin isnt actually performing much better than all other tanks by that much it just brings more useful utility and takes less damage when played properly, paladin has always had one of the best utility kits out of all the tanks, next patch another tank is going to be the best, all tanks are solid and can push high level keys, if ppl are not accepting you because your not a paladin then the problem is elsewhere.

All tanks are pushing the same level of keys, this is also content barely anyone does and the ones that do it play multiple roles/tanks and use what is best at the time so it doesnt effect anyone. There is no major balance issue so nerfs are not the answer, what you should be complaining about is other tanks getting more useful utility, or druids getting some more aoe or something.

[kamuimac]

Have you played Guardian in Dragonflight ? It's the most unforgiving tank spec in M+ when you start to do high keys.

It's no longer the "thrash/ironfur" spam from BFA/Shadowlands.

higher keys are unforgiving on all specs because its week 2 of season and people are not geared yet. so ofc anythign above 16-17 hurts like hell. once people are 440 + they will be facerolling +20s

[Sufifi]

higher keys are unforgiving on all specs because its week 2 of season and people are not geared yet. so ofc anythign above 16-17 hurts like hell. once people are 440 + they will be facerolling +20s

I guess he refers to the fact that Guardian Druid doesn't have as much passive mitigation as other tanks do (mostly Prot War and Prot Pal due to how strong blocking currently is). 10.1.5 will probably solve that since tree changes will allow bears to pick Ursoc's Frenzy without sacrificing too much damage, giving them powerful shields and good aoe damage. With that said utility will still set Prot Pal apart except every tank gets some unique utility one way or another.

[Thirtyrock]

Only 2 stacks of frailty to primary target? That would be incredibly bad play. Primary target should be over 6 for most of the pull and should only ever be under 4 stacks when the pull just started and you're ramping. Rest of pack will bounce between 2-4 stacks, primary target will be upwards of 8 stacks at times.

VDH which current set bonus is in a very cozy place this season. Open with spikes and fel dev while brand is spreading and frailty is ramping and it's smooth sailing after that unless something bad happens that shouldn't. You say a big pull is dicey without FD available but why the hell would you ever start a big pull without it? It's a 1 min CD even without reduction talent, it is always availible for any non throwaway pull unless you're yolo sending it at the end of pulls which you shouldn't be.

That's literally what I said "you can apply AT MOST 2 at a time to your primary target...The beginning of pulls can be very dicey..."

Once you have it rolling, it's great. It's just that it takes a few globals to get to 6 stacks on your primary target.

I don't have the 4 set bonus yet. I have had to do what you say about getting things rolling, but it can still be scary the first global or so.

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so it sounds like to me, ya'll want EVERY tank to be a hybrid. Can't you all understand that nothing will be 100% balanced? Every time that paladin (mostly Ret and Prot) gets to be good (no matter the degree), this happens. It's no big deal that a BDK can out-heal all the healers, Disc being crap for dps when it's part of their spec while being out-healed and DPS'd by an Evoker and Shaman, Monk, etc. Every class has a 'oooooh' part about them. Do you want spec homogeny again?

I keep forgetting that a lot of posters here are baddies wishing they were in the ~1%, and/or just toxic people.

I don't know that I want paladins nerfed. I'd just like, as a DH, a bit more group utility. We lost some between SL and now.

[Tech614]

That's literally what I said "you can apply AT MOST 2 at a time to your primary target

You mean the first 3 globals of the pull? With DS, ED and FD? Yea, sorry didn't realize you where talking about a completely irrelevant window of combat that if a DH dies in they shouldn't be playing VDH and should be playing a more forgiving tank for boomer reactions and pull prep.

The pull is absolute dangerous for VDH that go into it unprepared, which is why it's not a spec beginners should be playing. This was especially hilarious when it was meta at the start of SL even before frailty much of the same rules where true and you couldn't just blindly infernal strike into a middle of the pack.

[Nymrohd]

I don't know that I want paladins nerfed. I'd just like, as a DH, a bit more group utility. We lost some between SL and now.

Heck you haven't even necessarily lost it. It's just that the class tree is built in such a way that it costs too much to get it.

[Thirtyrock]

Right. That’s what I mean. Group grip was the obvious choice for so long that to not have it easily available sucks.

[Shockzalot]

It's a never-ending cycle of cat and mouse, you haven't figured it out by now? A spec over performs and the nerf bat is deployed. WW monks were insane in the prepatch, they were toned down and fell into obscurity after several weeks of DF because they never scaled well. They could nerf Prot paladins, yes what is the point? Then whatever the tank is that assumes the throne will face cries to be nerfed as well. Guardian Druids are ok, the biggest problem is they have long cool downs. In the 2nd week I ran plenty of successful 17-18 runs with competent Guardian Druids, they take more effort to heal, but it's doable.

[DUMB APE]

This thread was brought to you by a prot warrior/BDK main. Both of which were meta for most seasons since their inception. This is the first season ever that prot pala is the top dog. Let us be, we already got nerfed enough.

Jesus. I remember DKs when they first came out in WOTLK... You could tank and DPs with any spec you wanted. Hell, I remember being able to kill this 80 Druid in full Furious PvP set as a fresh level 58 DK when I was raiding Westfall back then. Monks and Demon Hunters don't even hold a candle to just how ridiculous that class was at its inception.

[pinkz]

many key streamers play prot paladins, with Hpals/Rets in tow. this has created a huge fleet of paladin players.

blizz seems to forget OP tanks have in the game with various comments and corrective actions in the past causing repeat issues to resurface predominately since WOTLK. when a prot pal does a HEY LOOK +27 key mythic solo. one can only wonder why they are OP in other game play modes. many like to throw arenas in as proof this is not true. they forget rated arenas have different mechanics/buffering/spell limitations that solo que arenas did not have alot with BGs

blizz seems to ignore the power bleed and homogenization of all pal specs while gimping other classes in the game with excuses for doing so

blizzard has a issue with X-class healer doing to much damage, yet in thru all SL top raid guilds used H-pals as DPS over Ret spec.if this occurs on other X-class healers who have DPS specs...blizz would jerk...INSTA NERF!