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  1. #41
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    Besides, I'd personally rather play a mantir if I had to play a beetle based race.
    What expansion could justify a playable Mantid race though?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    Dracthyr technically already had a precedent in terms of an anthropomorphized version of dragons in the form of Drakonid. Dracthyr are not a massive leap from that.

    Major lore dragons have also had the ability to transform into whatever race they desired since at least the inception of WoW if not earlier.

    Meanwhile nothing really ever suggested Nerubians would have similar abilities.

    So no, I don't think Dracthyr openened the floodgates for playable races that are outside established anthropomorphic norms.

    Besides, I'd personally rather play a mantir if I had to play a beetle based race.
    A lot of WoW insectoid races have humanoid forms, and half Nightborn-Spiders and Half-Troll Spiders exist in-game.

  3. #43
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
    A lot of WoW insectoid races have humanoid forms, and half Nightborn-Spiders and Half-Troll Spiders exist in-game.
    Ah yes, the Fal'Dorei;



    Definitely a good mid-point example. Something like this would just be a bit more of a push in the more humanoid direction.

  4. #44
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Wouldn't that step on the dracthyr's toes a little? I mean, the whole "race-can-only-be-one-class-and-class-can-only-be-one-race" is a defining trait of the dracthyr/evoker combo, plus the origin of "race tries to create a 'soldier' type that looks humanoid but can turn into a version of their creators" also steps on a lot of of the dracthyr's toes as well.

    In my opinion, the existence of the dracthyr makes this idea, as presented in the OP, less likely.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
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    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  5. #45
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Wouldn't that step on the dracthyr's toes a little? I mean, the whole "race-can-only-be-one-class-and-class-can-only-be-one-race" is a defining trait of the dracthyr/evoker combo, plus the origin of "race tries to create a 'soldier' type that looks humanoid but can turn into a version of their creators" also steps on a lot of of the dracthyr's toes as well.

    In my opinion, the existence of the dracthyr makes this idea, as presented in the OP, less likely.
    It would only step on Dracthyr toes if this were another dragon race. Also the lore doesn't have to follow the Dracthyr. This lore could be as simple as we discover a sub race of friendlier Nerubians who are fighting a war with the undead Nerubians we're more familiar with, and a few decide to join the factions and explore the outside world. In order to blend in with the surface races, they take more humanoid looking forms.

    Simple.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    What expansion could justify a playable Mantid race though?
    The possibilities...an expansion full of insectoids with their own class structure, racial abilities, and priests backed by old gods. Your own op holds a good writeup of a singular possibility. The Klaxxi were fleshed out in MoP. It's just a matter of connecting the dots to the details.

  7. #47
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    The possibilities...an expansion full of insectoids with their own class structure, racial abilities, and priests backed by old gods. Your own op holds a good writeup of a singular possibility. The Klaxxi were fleshed out in MoP. It's just a matter of connecting the dots to the details.
    What are your thoughts on this being a more Druid-like class? Instead of turning into cuddly cats and bears, you turn into horrifying insectoid monsters.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    What expansion could justify a playable Mantid race though?
    Literally anything involving the void/void lords. And Aberrus certainly hints that we'll be going in that direction again eventually.

    I'd say that mantid returning is about as likely if not more so than Nerubians. Hell, even some form of Silithid could work since they have similarly anthropomorphic versions already
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  9. #49
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    Literally anything involving the void/void lords. And Aberrus certainly hints that we'll be going in that direction again eventually.

    I'd say that mantid returning is about as likely if not more so than Nerubians. Hell, even some form of Silithid could work since they have similarly anthropomorphic versions already
    I disagree that any void expansion could allow a mantid race. I wouldn't be surprised if we never see the Mantid again, and if they're restricted to Pandaria going forward. The Nerubians have the benefit of having the Azjol Nerub concept to give them a possible new landmass to inhabit.

    Also, there really isn’t a hero class associated with Mantid like there is with Nerubians (Crypt Lord/ Anub Arak).

  10. #50
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    It would only step on Dracthyr toes if this were another dragon race.
    You don't have to have a literal 1:1 copy to "step on someone's toes". Just like a hypothetical class where its main gimmick is transforming into and fight as different monsters would step on the druid's toes even if they don't turn into beasts. An apple is still an apple even if you paint it orange.

    Also the lore doesn't have to follow the Dracthyr. This lore could be as simple as we discover a sub race of friendlier Nerubians who are fighting a war with the undead Nerubians we're more familiar with, and a few decide to join the factions and explore the outside world. In order to blend in with the surface races, they take more humanoid looking forms.
    That is still "stepping on the toes" of the dracthyr, who literally use their visage form to blend in with the factions, and then turn into their normal forms when entering combat. That's my point here.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  11. #51
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You don't have to have a literal 1:1 copy to "step on someone's toes". Just like a hypothetical class where its main gimmick is transforming into and fight as different monsters would step on the druid's toes even if they don't turn into beasts. An apple is still an apple even if you paint it orange.
    Nah, I fundamentally disagree. It's like saying that Warlocks step on Hunter's toes because they both have Pets, or that Mages step on Shaman toes because they have Elementals, or Shaman step on Druid toes because Shaman can turn into a wolf, etc.

    You're certainly welcome to your opinion though.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You don't have to have a literal 1:1 copy to "step on someone's toes". Just like a hypothetical class where its main gimmick is transforming into and fight as different monsters would step on the druid's toes even if they don't turn into beasts. An apple is still an apple even if you paint it orange.


    That is still "stepping on the toes" of the dracthyr, who literally use their visage form to blend in with the factions, and then turn into their normal forms when entering combat. That's my point here.
    Warlocks stepped on DK toes when they got Death Coil in Vanilla, which was a DK ability.
    Rogues, Priests and Warlocks stepped on DH toes when they got Evasion, Mana Burn, Immolation Aura and Metamorphosis respectively, which were all DH abilities in WC3.

    Everyone stepped on Druids and Shamans toes when Combat Res and Bloodlust were given to others.

    What you're describing is most certainly not "stepping on anyone's toes". The Worgen were doing this before the Lizards were even a concept.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    What are your thoughts on this being a more Druid-like class? Instead of turning into cuddly cats and bears, you turn into horrifying insectoid monsters.
    It certainly is an idea, however I feel the classes themselves need to be redone as some aren't applicable.

    The base classes are warrior, priest, druid, mage, hunter, rogue, shaman, paladin, Warlock.
    Warrior is an easy fit.( Kil'ruk the Wind-Reaver is a good example)
    Priest is another easy one. Although dealing with chaos gods will take some interpretation.
    "Druid" isn't the word I would use when regarding an insectoid race. Need to think of the contextual equivalent. (A spec regarding "metamorphosis" should be considered)
    "Paladin" is another word I wouldn't use, but then they don't exist to any of the insectoid races.
    Rogue isn't far from what "Ka'roz the Locust" was. His focus was definitely a killer though.
    "Hunter" isn't a bad term. (Hisek the Swarmkeeper was a tracker that used a rifle)
    Mage...probably not a good word for Iyyokuk the Lucid. (Arcanist...?)
    Kaz'tik the Manipulator is less a mage and more an enchanter of the Everquest game. (Mind-control)
    Shaman..is interesting, anot a good word. The focus is on the basic building blocks...the elements. But what is "elemental" to an insectoid race is going to be very different from more humanoid races. (In the case of the Klaxxi we see "sound" as sonic vibration, we see amber ("the color of my energy")
    Warlocks...not allowed in any form. They are an abomination (re: "competition" to the old gods) Anyone caught trafficking or consortium with demons are given a swift, definite fate.

    Sorry. Typically I've no answers, just more questions to be considered for the sake of depth.
    Last edited by Shadowferal; 2023-05-23 at 03:26 PM.

  14. #54
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    It certainly is an idea, however I feel the classes themselves need to be redone as some aren't applicable.

    The base classes are warrior, priest, druid, mage, hunter, rogue, shaman, paladin, Warlock.
    Warrior is an easy fit.( Kil'ruk the Wind-Reaver is a good example)
    Priest is another easy one. Although dealing with chaos gods will take some interpretation.
    "Druid" isn't the word I would use when regarding an insectoid race. Need to think of the contextual equivalent. (A spec regarding "metamorphosis" should be considered)
    "Paladin" is another word I wouldn't use, but then they don't exist to any of the insectoid races.
    Rogue isn't far from what "Ka'roz the Locust" was. His focus was definitely a killer though.
    "Hunter" isn't a bad term. (Hisek the Swarmkeeper was a tracker that used a rifle)
    Mage...probably not a good word for Iyyokuk the Lucid. (Arcanist...?)
    Kaz'tik the Manipulator is less a mage and more an enchanter of the Everquest game. (Mind-control)
    Shaman..is interesting, anot a good word. The focus is on the basic building blocks...the elements. But what is "elemental" to an insectoid race is going to be very different from more humanoid races. (In the case of the Klaxxi we see "sound" as sonic vibration, we see amber ("the color of my energy")
    Warlocks...not allowed in any form. They are an abomination (re: "competition" to the old gods) Anyone caught trafficking or consortium with demons are given a swift, definite fate.

    Sorry. Typically I've no answers, just more questions to be considered for the sake of depth.

    Now this is an interesting point, because if Blizzard is going Nerubian, I see it as a race/class where both are locked to each other like the Dracthyr Evoker. If Blizzard goes with Mantid, that would be a situation where the race could go to multiple classes as a standard race.

    I personally prefer the Nerubian option where their sole class is "Crypt Lord" and through that you can really push the uniqueness and flavor of the race. However, I could see how others would want to be an insectoid race for multiple classes.

  15. #55
    One huge issue with this. Every single insect like race in wow worship and were created by old gods to corrupt azeroth. Only way this works is if blizzare introduces a 3rd faction.

  16. #56
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Nah, I fundamentally disagree. It's like saying that Warlocks step on Hunter's toes because they both have Pets, or that Mages step on Shaman toes because they have Elementals, or Shaman step on Druid toes because Shaman can turn into a wolf, etc.
    It's not the same thing, though. I'm talking about themes. And a race themed around taking on a humanoid form to blend with the other races is thematically the same as a race themed around taking on a humanoid form to blend with the other races. That's the thing. This isn't about specific in-game abilities. It never was.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    Warlocks stepped on DK toes when they got Death Coil in Vanilla, which was a DK ability.
    That is not the same thing. One, it only had the ability name, its functionality was vastly different; and two, the death knight was a class that did not exist in WoW at the time. To the point that in Wrath, the warlock's ability was renamed 'Mortal Coil' and DKs got the ACTUAL Death Coil ability.

    Rogues, Priests and Warlocks stepped on DH toes when they got Evasion, Mana Burn, Immolation Aura and Metamorphosis respectively, which were all DH abilities in WC3.
    Again: it's not the same thing. One, the demon hunter class did not exist at the time; and two, those are singular abilities, not a theme representation.

    Everyone stepped on Druids and Shamans toes when Combat Res and Bloodlust were given to others.
    Not the same thing. The classes' themes weren't centered or based around having a combat res or bloodlust.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    One huge issue with this. Every single insect like race in wow worship and were created by old gods to corrupt azeroth. Only way this works is if blizzare introduces a 3rd faction.
    Why yes! I've often cheered a similar idea.
    Of course Blizz doesn't seem to care for 3rd factions or "independent"...or for factions altogether these days.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Now this is an interesting point, because if Blizzard is going Nerubian, I see it as a race/class where both are locked to each other like the Dracthyr Evoker. If Blizzard goes with Mantid, that would be a situation where the race could go to multiple classes as a standard race.

    I personally prefer the Nerubian option where their sole class is "Crypt Lord" and through that you can really push the uniqueness and flavor of the race. However, I could see how others would want to be an insectoid race for multiple classes.
    Your reasoning for wanting Nerubian Crypt Lords, is my reasoning why they're unlikely to happen.

    Dracthyr may have launched as a single class/race combo, but from the very get go Blizzard has hinted that Dracthyr would eventually be able to adapt to new classes through their newfound allies.

    A Mantid or similar anthropomorphic insectoid race would be able to adapt to multiple classes, while Nerubians, at least in their original quadroped forms, would be unable to.

    Especially given the distinct lack of hands to wield weapons.

    While I could see Blizzard launching another timed exclusive race/class combo, I do not see them launching a race entirely incompatible with existing classes.

    Especially given they've repeatedly expressed the desire to expand every class to every race (with Evoker being a potential exclusion from this.
    Last edited by Unlimited Power; 2023-05-23 at 04:01 PM.
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  19. #59
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    One huge issue with this. Every single insect like race in wow worship and were created by old gods to corrupt azeroth. Only way this works is if blizzare introduces a 3rd faction.
    In WotLK we helped one of the few remaining living Nerubians named Seer Ixit who sought to become the new leader of the Nerubians. During one of his quests he sent us on, we killed several faceless ones for him, because they were a threat to the rebirth of the Nerubian kingdom.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Seer_Ixit

    A playable Nerubian race could come from lore surrounding this guy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's not the same thing, though. I'm talking about themes. And a race themed around taking on a humanoid form to blend with the other races is thematically the same as a race themed around taking on a humanoid form to blend with the other races. That's the thing. This isn't about specific in-game abilities. It never was.
    That isn't the theme around the Dracthyr. The theme around the Dracthyr is an artificial dragon race created by Neltharion. Visage form is a feature that all dragons in WoW have. They aren't themed around that ability, it's merely a feature of their race that the Dracthyr share.

    A playable Nerubian race using magic to blend in with the surface world doesn't affect the Dracthyr at all. The theme of playable Nerubians would be spider people, not dragons.

  20. #60
    I for one would welcome spider waifus into the game...

    That said I could actually see them working as a proxy based damage class/healer that would actually add something to the game via swarm style gameplay.

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