Russian invasion of Ukraine

[enigma77]

This shit is the gift that keeps on giving lol

[Azadina]

But you have to understand, no one was ever supposed to come here! It's not the fault of the Belgorod government! (obviously sarcasm but I'm almost sure that's their thought process.)

That's also why fearing RuZZki nukes is beyond silly. What better place to steal from, than money going to weapons that are never to see use? And even if situation came up where they were to be used, it's all over either way, and won't make any difference to the thieves.

[YUPPIE]

That's also why fearing RuZZki nukes is beyond silly. What better place to steal from, than money going to weapons that are never to see use? And even if situation came up where they were to be used, it's all over either way, and won't make any difference to the thieves.

you're like this now because Russia isn't really jeopardized and just looks foolish, but keep in mind Joe Biden still has Ukraine on a leash: he warns them "do not ever use this (weapon/tech) here" or "don't kill this specific Russian"; this all indicates that yes, there is a level of concern for what Russia will do should they feel cornered. Thus, we are trying to make sure they don't suffer an overwhelming defeat.

[jonnysensible]

you're like this now because Russia isn't really jeopardized and just looks foolish, but keep in mind Joe Biden still has Ukraine on a leash: he warns them "do not ever use this (weapon/tech) here" or "don't kill this specific Russian"; this all indicates that yes, there is a level of concern for what Russia will do should they feel cornered. Thus, we are trying to make sure they don't suffer an overwhelming defeat.

neither side is holding back

[Azadina]

you're like this now because Russia isn't really jeopardized and just looks foolish, but keep in mind Joe Biden still has Ukraine on a leash: he warns them "do not ever use this (weapon/tech) here" or "don't kill this specific Russian"; this all indicates that yes, there is a level of concern for what Russia will do should they feel cornered. Thus, we are trying to make sure they don't suffer an overwhelming defeat.

Just because you can find a person who might believe in the bluff, doesn't mean it still isn't one. It sure is, and the sooner it's exposed as one, the better for everyone. Well, apart from terrorists that rely on it.

[YUPPIE]

neither side is holding back

both sides are holding back.

Ukraine is not hitting as hard as it'd like it could because they're being leashed by their Western benefactors to not do certain things

And Russia is obviously not pulling out WMDs or conscripting on masse from within Moscow, trying to preserve an illusion of being victimized up until their back is really pushed against the wall.

[Edge-]

both sides are holding back.

Ukraine is not hitting as hard as it'd like it could because they're being leashed by their Western benefactors to not do certain things

And Russia is obviously not pulling out WMDs or conscripting on masse from within Moscow, trying to preserve an illusion of being victimized up until their back is really pushed against the wall.

Are there not enough war crimes for your taste?

[YUPPIE]

Are there not enough war crimes for your taste?

"to not do certain things."

That doesn't imply Ukraine would be committing war crimes without a leash. It's just the West is impeding their ability to decisively end the war because they don't want Russia to feel cornered. These actions include launching missiles upon Putin's villas, assassinating certain key state generals, Putin himself, etc

[Edge-]

"to not do certain things."

That doesn't imply Ukraine would be committing war crimes without a leash. It's just the West is impeding their ability to decisively end the war because they don't want Russia to feel cornered. These actions include launching missiles upon Putin's villas, assassinating certain key state generals, Putin himself, etc

Generalisimo Yuppie, that would not end the war decisively, rofl.

[jonnysensible]

both sides are holding back.

Ukraine is not hitting as hard as it'd like it could because they're being leashed by their Western benefactors to not do certain things

And Russia is obviously not pulling out WMDs or conscripting on masse from within Moscow, trying to preserve an illusion of being victimized up until their back is really pushed against the wall.

ukraine is not holding back it is doing everything it can with the resources it has.

Russia is not 'pulling out WMD's' because it is not viable to use them or using mass conscription because it is not politically viable to do currently.

[YUPPIE]

currently.

yeah, hence why I wrote Russia's not cornered yet.

[Elder Millennial]

ukraine is not holding back it is doing everything it can with the resources it has.

Hmmmmm. I'm quite sure about that.

I think it's a bit more complicated than that, in the sense that "Ukraine is in fact doing everything it can within its current strategic objectives." Ukraine's current strategic objectives are 1, Ejecting Russia from the territory of Ukraine 2, Doing so while maintaining Western public support. The second of those objectives is contingent on not doing certain things that Russia freely engages in. Like targeting civilians. Ukraine could, engage in Russian style terror tactics targeting Russian and Belorussian population centers along its northern borders and in Crimea, using drones and cheapo dumb ballistic missiles that it could domestically build. What they are doing now, the targeting of military objectives etc is actually much harder to do than the indiscriminate bombings Russia engages in.

[YUPPIE]

Hmmmmm. I'm quite sure about that.

I think it's a bit more complicated than that, in the sense that "Ukraine is in fact doing everything it can within its current strategic objectives." Ukraine's current strategic objectives are 1, Ejecting Russia from the territory of Ukraine 2, Doing so while maintaining Western public support. The second of those objectives is contingent on not doing certain things that Russia freely engages in. Like targeting civilians. Ukraine could, engage in Russian style terror tactics targeting Russian and Belorussian population centers along its northern borders and in Crimea, using drones and cheapo dumb ballistic missiles that it could domestically build. What they are doing now, the targeting of military objectives etc is actually much harder to do than the indiscriminate bombings Russia engages in.

yeah, so I was in the right.

That said, I don't get why Ukraine can't just launch a missile upon Putin's Palace. That's not a civilian centre or anywhere close to it.

[jonnysensible]

Hmmmmm. I'm quite sure about that.

I think it's a bit more complicated than that, in the sense that "Ukraine is in fact doing everything it can within its current strategic objectives." Ukraine's current strategic objectives are 1, Ejecting Russia from the territory of Ukraine 2, Doing so while maintaining Western public support. The second of those objectives is contingent on not doing certain things that Russia freely engages in. Like targeting civilians. Ukraine could, engage in Russian style terror tactics targeting Russian and Belorussian population centers along its northern borders and in Crimea, using drones and cheapo dumb ballistic missiles that it could domestically build. What they are doing now, the targeting of military objectives etc is actually much harder to do than the indiscriminate bombings Russia engages in.

you defeated your own point. Targeting civilians serves no strategic purpose. Every drone and missile Russia has thrown at population centers would have been better spent helping Russian troops on the lines and targeting military commanders HQ's/ammo depots (its likely that Russian lacks the intel to target them). The only justification for it would be attrition and depletion of Ukraine air defense so that conventional bombers/jets/helicopters could operate more freely. Which hasn't happened and clearly its just the Russians being grim cunts.

Hitting random population centers doesn't make any sense for Ukraine to do in any military sense and wouldn't help them win the war.

- - - Updated - - -

yeah, so I was in the right.

That said, I don't get why Ukraine can't just launch a missile upon Putin's Palace. That's not a civilian centre or anywhere close to it.

You would have to know where putin is, beat the air defense and have something in range to do so. Its nonsense.

[Calfredd]

yeah, so I was in the right.

Only in your dreams.

[Cynical Asshole]

Hmmmmm. I'm quite sure about that.

I think it's a bit more complicated than that, in the sense that "Ukraine is in fact doing everything it can within its current strategic objectives." Ukraine's current strategic objectives are 1, Ejecting Russia from the territory of Ukraine 2, Doing so while maintaining Western public support. The second of those objectives is contingent on not doing certain things that Russia freely engages in. Like targeting civilians. Ukraine could, engage in Russian style terror tactics targeting Russian and Belorussian population centers along its northern borders and in Crimea, using drones and cheapo dumb ballistic missiles that it could domestically build. What they are doing now, the targeting of military objectives etc is actually much harder to do than the indiscriminate bombings Russia engages in.

I think nr.1 depends entirely on nr.2. Ukraine would not able to do it without western support. So I'm pretty sure these objectives are reversed.

[Gorsameth]

yeah, so I was in the right.

That said, I don't get why Ukraine can't just launch a missile upon Putin's Palace. That's not a civilian centre or anywhere close to it.

Because it does nothing?
Have you never heard of early warning detection? air alarms and bunkers?

Long range missiles are a terrible way means of assassination.

[Kallisto]

yeah, so I was in the right.

That said, I don't get why Ukraine can't just launch a missile upon Putin's Palace. That's not a civilian centre or anywhere close to it.

Because early warning systems. Turning Putin into a potential martyr for right wingers. Guarantees they are bound to not to attack Russia proper with western weapons. The fact that Putin never stays in the same place two nights in a row. That Putin would rather hide in Sochi than Moscow because he feels safer there due to Moscow citizens not really liking Putin. Even then he might be in places like Astrakhan or Perm.

The fact that war isn't some video game where you come up with your super weapon and go "I win lol."

It's OK Medvedev. If you stop drinking you might learn something. And don't try to scare us once again with Japanese horror women. It doesn't work and makes you look more pathetic than you are.

[Logwyn]

The fact that war isn't some video game where you come up with your super weapon and go "I win lol."

Not sure but I would ask Japan about this idea circa Aug. 1945 and how that worked out.

[Gaidax]

It is obvious that Ukraine has limits it sets to itself and set by the partners.

And it's nothing to even do with the usual nuclear ooga-booga, Ukraine and the West much rather have Russia keep its "special operation" pretense and not go full out war, mass conscriptions and full-blown war effort, because that would be a whole different bucket of cancer to deal with then.