1. #961
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    All that is personal. Which is fine. But they don't indicate anything except for the relative personal interest of the speaker.

    What you find personally boring may not be so to another. Though using skill gain as a barometer of what makes one game (D3/D4) inferior to another (D2) is laughable if the former provides the exact skill.

    It would have been more correct say or frame the statement as, "I don't think D4's chain lighting is as visually appealing as D2's version of the skill."

    The rest of the language with qualifiers such as "bad", "trash", "boring" or what level chain lightning is accessible- worthless. It really just comes down to liking one graphical style over and another- and that is perfectly fine. If one just makes that subjective and personal statement.

    This is a contradiction or poor wording on your part. If a gameplay model has depth, how can it be "trash"? What is trash in this context? Who and what is the measure of this value? If personal, so what.

    The very premise of this thread, "Diablo 4 is bad" is faulty. There is no effective difference in saying, "Chocolate ice cream is bad."
    Yeah, people are talking about their opinions. Why are you mentioning D2? I was talking about D3 and D4. In D3 gameplay feel better to play. Dont mind the slower pace, not really. Just overall feel of the gameplay, and yes, the only thing which sticks out is general skill look and impact.

    Gameplay, on paper should be better. Animations are more crisps, the physics of models and snow is better. D3 did not even have snow animation. Just something is off.

    I did not say PoE gameplay has depths, game has, game systems. Gameplay is stiff animations, too down close camera, minimap which is non usable and overlay map which is intefering with seeing what characters do. Here, more subjective things which contribute to "trash" term in my opinion.

  2. #962
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Yeah, people are talking about their opinions. Why are you mentioning D2? I was talking about D3 and D4. In D3 gameplay feel better to play. Dont mind the slower pace, not really. Just overall feel of the gameplay, and yes, the only thing which sticks out is general skill look and impact.

    Gameplay, on paper should be better. Animations are more crisps, the physics of models and snow is better. D3 did not even have snow animation. Just something is off.

    I did not say PoE gameplay has depths, game has, game systems. Gameplay is stiff animations, too down close camera, minimap which is non usable and overlay map which is intefering with seeing what characters do. Here, more subjective things which contribute to "trash" term in my opinion.
    D4 is less flashy, diablo is not really supposed to be the flashy game that D3 turned into, its fun for a while but its superficial gameplay, the fundamental gameplay is no different, its just been improved upon in D4 from D3, you are saying the gameplay is worse when in reality its the same gameplay just the spells have different visuals and its not as flashy.
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  3. #963
    To be fair d4 has more content on release than d3 since it released including the expansion. If you want to argue anything less positive about d4, talking about d3 makes everything you say laughable.

    There's valid criticism, then there's the above.
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    End of quote. Repeat the line.

  4. #964
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    To be fair d4 has more content on release than d3 since it released including the expansion. If you want to argue anything less positive about d4, talking about d3 makes everything you say laughable.

    There's valid criticism, then there's the above.
    I don't think this is true. D4 has a bunch of short, small, insignificant static dungeons, which I'd argue being extremely favorable to D4 is equivalent to Nephalem rifts. They both have their campaign. Then you have daily/weekly stuff in D4 that seems to replace bounties? And nightmare dungeons for GRs. There's a lot here that D3 has on top of these systems that D4 has no answer for.

    D4 is launching with more than D3 had at launch, but I think it's big copium to say it's more than D3 has now.

  5. #965
    Quote Originally Posted by BiggestNoob View Post
    I don't think this is true. D4 has a bunch of short, small, insignificant static dungeons, which I'd argue being extremely favorable to D4 is equivalent to Nephalem rifts. They both have their campaign. Then you have daily/weekly stuff in D4 that seems to replace bounties? And nightmare dungeons for GRs. There's a lot here that D3 has on top of these systems that D4 has no answer for.

    D4 is launching with more than D3 had at launch, but I think it's big copium to say it's more than D3 has now.
    Funny you didn't mention one thing d3 has that d4 doesn't.

    "there's a lot here that d3 has on top of these systems that d4 has no answer for"

    Please, elaborate.
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    End of quote. Repeat the line.

  6. #966
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    i didnt know about the server slam. decided to preorder the game and checked out the subreddit today and apparently theres a massive amount of people who got a server slam exclusive mount trophy that are hellbent on gatekeeping people without it out of groups on release. its insane to me that this is what gaming has come to. absolutely fucking insane. what the fuck happened to gamers man? jesus fucking christ

  7. #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    i didnt know about the server slam. decided to preorder the game and checked out the subreddit today and apparently theres a massive amount of people who got a server slam exclusive mount trophy that are hellbent on gatekeeping people without it out of groups on release. its insane to me that this is what gaming has come to. absolutely fucking insane. what the fuck happened to gamers man? jesus fucking christ
    Most of that on reddit is just people joking out of boredom. However people have been excluding, "bad emotes" (think /spit), and other stuff when people have or buy stuff they don't like. When a popular streamer or content creator does it you'll see a lot of their fans repeat the same stuff. Nothing new since stuff like that happened back in 2013 with the cosmetic crowns in WoW.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  8. #968
    Quote Originally Posted by mehow2g View Post
    It's just getting old for me now, I no longer can play a game where it's primary goal is to milk me as much as possible especially with a box price and it's not about the money it's just how these money grabbing systems are implemented it's partly hidden and knowing this I know for a fact that quality of the game is not at the top of importance.
    Good think D4 is not a game that milks money from players. All you have to do to get everything is to pay a game price. Theres plenty of good looking stes ingame to not bother with the shop mtx.


    Quote Originally Posted by BiggestNoob View Post
    I don't think this is true. D4 has a bunch of short, small, insignificant static dungeons, which I'd argue being extremely favorable to D4 is equivalent to Nephalem rifts. They both have their campaign. Then you have daily/weekly stuff in D4 that seems to replace bounties? And nightmare dungeons for GRs. There's a lot here that D3 has on top of these systems that D4 has no answer for.

    D4 is launching with more than D3 had at launch, but I think it's big copium to say it's more than D3 has now.
    Can you say what systems you mean? Because last time I played D3 had nothing except rifts and bounties.
    Last edited by Mamut; 2023-05-27 at 11:34 PM.

  9. #969
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    Good think D4 is not a game that milks money from players. All you have to do to get everything is to pay a game price. Theres plenty of good looking stes ingame to not bother with the shop mtx.
    The Battlepasses are paid for and they're content/milestones to chase that people who only buy the box price will miss out on

  10. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The very premise of this thread, "Diablo 4 is bad" is faulty. There is no effective difference in saying, "Chocolate ice cream is bad."
    I mean, chocolate ice cream is bad. I much prefer a sorbet.

    I believe on the grand, long-term scale D4 will be a great game. Some will hate it, sure. However, the majority are likely to get hundreds of hours of entertainment from it.

  11. #971
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    The Battlepasses are paid for and they're content/milestones to chase that people who only buy the box price will miss out on
    What content/milestone? You have also milestones in free pass.

  12. #972
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    What content/milestone? You have also milestones in free pass.
    Last time I checked chasing things to complete/achieve is considered "content"

    Yeah theres a free pass and theres also a battlepass so can we not pretend like blizzard are not trying to make money like all businesses do.

  13. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Why are you mentioning D2?
    To talk about the differences in how the same skill was presented across D2/3/4.

    I did not say PoE gameplay has depths, game has, game systems.
    POE is irrelevant. You said "all the depth in the world can not save it" but that is contradictory.

    If any game had all "all the depth" then the gameplay could not be poorly executed. Gameplay is the operation of the game rules to service a metaphor. Like crouching, shooitng a pistol or jumping.

    Gameplay is not how one may feel about the rules or the way those rules are necessarily interpreted- that is expression.

    This commonly misunderstood. Typically what players are more accurately talking about is the interaction or play experience.

    So one could say, "Despite the depth of Game X's gameplay, I think the play experince is poor."

    It's important to distinguish this because a game could achieve perfect gameplay (Tetris, Defender, Portal) and still have a poor play experience for a game player. But that would not mean Eugene Jarvis or David Thuer did not deliver a perfect expression of gameplay.

    Gameplay can be perfect. Its objective. Someone has to literally program the rule of interaction.If that rule is not contradicted by itself, and functions, that rule is expressed perfectly.

    Gameplay is stiff animations, too down close camera, minimap which is non usable and overlay map which is intefering with seeing what characters do.
    Nothing wrong with subjectivity. I am interested in your personal viewpoint specially. But this stuff is also not gameplay.

    You'd have to have some sort of rule by which, for example, the mini map overlay is expressed as a metaphor for this to be a criqtue of gameplay.

    Such as when a character ingame is rigged to have their literal map out like in New World, for example. Or rummaging though your backpack in Sons of the Forest- those actions of map reading or inventory management are directly expressed as metaphor. Thus they are gameplay.

    The mini map overlay in games such as Path of Exile, Last Epoch, or Diablo are not expressed as gameplay. Those are what is in actuality a system element; GUI in this example.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2023-05-28 at 01:44 AM.

  14. #974
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    i didnt know about the server slam. decided to preorder the game and checked out the subreddit today and apparently theres a massive amount of people who got a server slam exclusive mount trophy that are hellbent on gatekeeping people without it out of groups on release. its insane to me that this is what gaming has come to. absolutely fucking insane. what the fuck happened to gamers man? jesus fucking christ
    That's the joke! There's maybe 1% of those people posting "ATC members only" stuff in Reddit (ATC stands for Ashava Trophy Club), that really do think they're God Gamers. But I can assure you that 99% of those pots, are shit posts and just memeing on the game. I think the vast majority of people on the sub are just killing time before the game launches and couldn't give a shit if you have the trophy or not, brought the 4 day early access or not, or plan on buying the season pass or not.

    ATC is as much as a meme as when someone posts "I'm a Dad with 27 children, I can only play the game for 2 minutes a week and even I managed to hit Legend in Hearthstone!" - It's just taking the piss at how much of a "trophy" that item really is.

  15. #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    i didnt know about the server slam. decided to preorder the game and checked out the subreddit today and apparently theres a massive amount of people who got a server slam exclusive mount trophy that are hellbent on gatekeeping people without it out of groups on release. its insane to me that this is what gaming has come to. absolutely fucking insane. what the fuck happened to gamers man? jesus fucking christ
    I'm not planning to buy and play d4, but if I was, I'd be glad these people are planning to block me from grouping with them as I wouldn't want to waste my time grouping with them anyway.

  16. #976
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    Funny you didn't mention one thing d3 has that d4 doesn't.

    "there's a lot here that d3 has on top of these systems that d4 has no answer for"

    Please, elaborate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    Can you say what systems you mean? Because last time I played D3 had nothing except rifts and bounties.
    Legendary gems, gear sets, season mechanics some of which have stuck around, e.g. altar of rites now and a cubed primal kept from S27, the cube itself, crafting that isn't just extracting/applying legendary effects, followers, challenges, and significant benefits for higher difficulties far beyond torment 1.

    Like you can scoff at any of this all you like, but if D3 really didn't have any of this and was as shallow as you claim it is, nobody would even play seasons, but they do, and having D4 comparable to that incredibly anemic D3 would be utterly catastrophic for D4.

    With what we've been shown and told about from full on testing (not our 25/20 tests) is worryingly little to do in the game short of the first season, and we have no idea what seasons will be like. This is a problem, and D3 had the same problem at release. I don't see how claiming "D4 has LOADS of content, like more than D3 ever had!" is going to help, that's like upgrading your COPIUM tank. I've played JRPG DLC for $20 that had far more content than D4 has, and PoE is over there showing an example. Now if you're thinking from a long-term perspective, this might not be an issue in a few years, but it is right now, and the game releases next week. This is not good.

  17. #977
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    The Battlepasses are paid for and they're content/milestones to chase that people who only buy the box price will miss out on
    Is your fear of missing out that strong that you have to have a higher rank on a battlepass?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BiggestNoob View Post
    I don't see how claiming "D4 has LOADS of content, like more than D3 ever had!" is going to help, that's like upgrading your COPIUM tank. I've played JRPG DLC for $20 that had far more content than D4 has, and PoE is over there showing an example. Now if you're thinking from a long-term perspective, this might not be an issue in a few years, but it is right now, and the game releases next week. This is not good.
    It does have more content just not the same exact content. We already know that D4 will have 4 seasons a year so it will be on par with Diablo 3 seasons. We also know that Diablo 4 seasons will have more to them than the Diablo 3 ones did because of the live service (battle pass) support. So it will start to outpace the content of Diablo 3 both at launch and post-launch.

    You have just as much of a copium tank as those you accuse. I also highly doubt your DLC had more content and are simply exaggerating what you consider content.
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  18. #978
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Last time I checked chasing things to complete/achieve is considered "content"

    Yeah theres a free pass and theres also a battlepass so can we not pretend like blizzard are not trying to make money like all businesses do.
    The problem with just using "content" unequivocally there is that while it may technically correct, not all content is created equal. There's some content a lot of people care a lot about; and other content a lot of people care very little about. And while you'd be correct in saying both are "content", if you erase the distinction between the two you also erase the fact that a lot of people care vastly more about one than the other - and if those both come at a different price, that's kinda RELEVANT TO THE DISCUSSION.

    So yes, SOME content is only available to those who pay extra, that's completely true. But the existence of that optional paid-for content ALSO creates other content that EVERYONE gets - and that without that payment they wouldn't be making. You're effectively getting SOME content FOR FREE because some people choose to pay for other content - and the key point here is that the content they pay for is cosmetic in nature, while the content they get for free also includes non-cosmetic story/gameplay content. That matters. A LOT.

  19. #979
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    i didnt know about the server slam. decided to preorder the game and checked out the subreddit today and apparently theres a massive amount of people who got a server slam exclusive mount trophy that are hellbent on gatekeeping people without it out of groups on release. its insane to me that this is what gaming has come to. absolutely fucking insane. what the fuck happened to gamers man? jesus fucking christ
    Reddit of D4 is a cult. Avoid it. Neckbeards of the worst kind.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    That's the joke! There's maybe 1% of those people posting "ATC members only" stuff in Reddit (ATC stands for Ashava Trophy Club), that really do think they're God Gamers. But I can assure you that 99% of those pots, are shit posts and just memeing on the game. I think the vast majority of people on the sub are just killing time before the game launches and couldn't give a shit if you have the trophy or not, brought the 4 day early access or not, or plan on buying the season pass or not.

    ATC is as much as a meme as when someone posts "I'm a Dad with 27 children, I can only play the game for 2 minutes a week and even I managed to hit Legend in Hearthstone!" - It's just taking the piss at how much of a "trophy" that item really is.
    Nah man, that Reddit is a echo chamber of neckbeards. Not only ATC but also shutting down any criticism, etc.

  20. #980
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    i didnt know about the server slam. decided to preorder the game and checked out the subreddit today and apparently theres a massive amount of people who got a server slam exclusive mount trophy that are hellbent on gatekeeping people without it out of groups on release. its insane to me that this is what gaming has come to. absolutely fucking insane. what the fuck happened to gamers man? jesus fucking christ
    That's what pretty much all of Reddit is. A cesspool of toxicity. That site has become worse than 4chan.

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