Zaralek caverns feels like it was designed by dev that made Shadowlands so Unbearable

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I finally did all the possible quests and such in Zaralek and they were fun(at least most of them), but when it comes to gameplay - this zone makes me feeling like im playing Shadowlands again, not really rewarding, a pain in the ass with the goddamn bulletsponge elites, content that most people abandonded and it's hard to even find people in group finder to do them, at least on my connected realms.

Forbidden reach was more enjoyable for me as a "wait for 10.1" content, even if it was mostly hunting rares, but it was nice getting all these items that you will be able to use in the future for alts to gear up faster.


As someone that enjoys group content from time to time but also likes doing open world content, it slowly feels like Blizzard just wants you to do m+ and afk in valdrakken most of the time, because they surely didn't make new open world content enjoyable or rewarding.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the World boss, i did it on many alts and didn't see any loot dropping or other people getting any loot in chat logs.


Maybe im just the problem, dunno but that's how i feel about this zone.


What are your thoughts on that? Do you still enjoy Zaralek Cavern?

[Nederbelg]

I go there for the storyline once for each gear set. I cba to do the rest, sniffenseeking and such is not for me.

[kranur]

What you're describing is not a Zaralek Caverns problem, but a core design thing. Good or bad, it's super subjective and you'll have many people agree with Blizzard's design - you don't raid or do M+, you don't shouldn't have access to anything decent and deserve to be an insect.

World content in WoW has never provided good rewards and has been mostly just a catch up, the exception being the start of some expansions. The other annoying and off-putting thing (which also seems to be a core design philosophy) is the gatekeeping and caps. As you mentioned Forbidden Reach was more fun, and well that was mostly because you could do stuff ("rares" popping all the time, work towards achievements etc.). Major patches however have the artificial gates in place to try and extend people's sub time ... somewhat decent loot once a week, specific time events + achievements that can only be worked towards only when these are up, currency caps etc.

All in all, Zaralek in itself is cool but it's almost the same design we've had.

[Nymrohd]

I assume that people who focus on world content are not doing much instanced content. Zaralek is a consistent and constant source of Drake's crest fragments. So if you want rewards, just join the rare trains and collect Drake's crests to upgrade Veteran gear (available in Zaralek, Fyrak assaults and LFR among others) up to 8/8 which is top Normal ilvl gear (424?). That is a decent level of gear to achieve imo is it not? It is easier than doing low level M+ for those crests. If you want to upgrade to Heroic ilvl gear you'll need to do some instanced content. I would expect that 10.1.7 will start handing out Champion gear and Wyrm's crests and we don't really know what rewards are tied to 10.1.5 Time Rifts plus the Megadungeon.

[WowIsDead64]

I've just understood major devs' problem. They don't understand, that players can get tired of content, no matter how good it is, and may want to have rest. And players would have rest in Wow instead of just quitting it, if Blizzard would provide relaxing content to them.

For example. Initially I wanted to just do timewalking and upgrade all heirlooms in process, because then I wanted to focus on leveling alts. It seemed to be good idea. But I've got tired in process. May be I will return to this task some day, thx God there won't be timewalking for next 2 weeks. May be I will want to level more alts some day. Especially when 10.1.5 will be released and we will have new race-class combos. But now I need new idea about what should I do in this game.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

What are your thoughts on that? Do you still enjoy Zaralek Cavern?

Environment wise, I've been clamoring for an underground zone for years. Zaralek Cavern is more memorable than most zones to release within the past decade, but it still falls short of what it could have been. It isn't as visually imaginative as other underground zones explored in other games (Draconis Mons and Tangled Depths in GW2), other movies (How to Train your Dragon 3), or even WoW's own past (that TBC dungeon, Azjol Nerub, etc).








What could have been.


As for your comment about elites, I personally prefer difficult outdoor content that requires you to group up with other people and socialize during a long grind. Difficult not as in damage sponges, but as in the mobs are threatening so you need tanks and healers and people crowd controlling. Unfortunately the elites in Zalarek are not threatening, they are just damage sponges, and you can't grind them for hours on end like in Timeless Isle's Ordon Sanctuary or even the Black Dragonflight rep farm. So there is no reason to hang out in Zalarek Cavern after you've beaten the campaign, unless the Loam Niffen rep rewards interest you (and you can only progress that from world quest chores). It's one and done content.

- - - Updated - - -

The one thing I do like about Zalarek Caverns is that you can find way more open world PvP there. You hardly ever get fights on the Dragon Isles because people can just spam spacebar and infinitely ascend, but in Zaralek there is a ceiling so they cannot cheese a way out. They actually have to play skillfully with their charges and try to evade being knocked off by your aerial tumbling ability. There are also only three chokepoints in or out which, again gives a chance to engage in PvP. Sadly people will stop visiting Zaralek when the next zone and tier hits, so if you want open world PvP, now is probably the best time to do so since BFA's prepatch event 5 years ago.

[Nymrohd]

I've just understood major devs' problem. They don't understand, that players can get tired of content, no matter how good it is, and may want to have rest. And players would have rest in Wow instead of just quitting it, if Blizzard would provide relaxing content to them.

For example. Initially I wanted to just do timewalking and upgrade all heirlooms in process, because then I wanted to focus on leveling alts. It seemed to be good idea. But I've got tired in process. May be I will return to this task some day, thx God there won't be timewalking for next 2 weeks. May be I will want to level more alts some day. Especially when 10.1.5 will be released and we will have new race-class combos. But now I need new idea about what should I do in this game.

I think they did though. Zaralek is very much designed to be finite content. You can get it done in a few weeks; I have gotten pretty much everything I wanted from it and I'm a collector. Started moving alts this weekend to get the rest of the mogs. I expect that by early July we will have 10.1.5 and that comes with a ton more content. So it kept me busy for a fair amount of time but it doesn't include frustrating grinds that can take an enormous amount of time (like the pet and mount system in Zereth Mortis).

[Segus1992]

Environment wise, I've been clamoring for an underground zone for years. Zaralek Cavern is more memorable than most zones to release within the past decade, but it still falls short of what it could have been. It isn't as visually imaginative as other underground zones explored in other games (Draconis Mons and Tangled Depths in GW2), other movies (How to Train your Dragon 3), or even WoW's own past (that TBC dungeon, Azjol Nerub, etc).

Underground areas being bright are interesting because they break the mold. Because you expect them to be dark. It's only cool as long as it's novel and then it stops making sense.

[WowIsDead64]

I think they did though. Zaralek is very much designed to be finite content. You can get it done in a few weeks; I have gotten pretty much everything I wanted from it and I'm a collector. Started moving alts this weekend to get the rest of the mogs. I expect that by early July we will have 10.1.5 and that comes with a ton more content. So it kept me busy for a fair amount of time but it doesn't include frustrating grinds that can take an enormous amount of time (like the pet and mount system in Zereth Mortis).

Don't get me wrong. I don't try to say, that we need some dedicated content for having rest. We just need more alternatives. That's why WOD was so great for me - there was perfect balance between endgame and leveling there, so I was able to take break from leveling while doing some endgame and then take break from endgame while leveling. For now I just want to take break from leveling, but there is no proper endgame in this game. Yeah, there are still things to do for me. I wanted to restore progress on characters, I had to delete to change their race to proper one, as Blizzard still don't admit their mistake and don't provide free race change.

For now I've made another DF free trial (thx God it ends soon) character in order to have unbiased opinion about DF leveling, because my first free trial character was made long ago, didn't have dragonriding leveled and I just don't remember all details. What I've discovered - is that Blizzard don't even give me dragonriding immediately after arriving on Dragon Isles. Big fail.

[Nymrohd]

Don't get me wrong. I don't try to say, that we need some dedicated content for having rest. We just need more alternatives. That's why WOD was so great for me - there was perfect balance between endgame and leveling there, so I was able to take break from leveling while doing some endgame and then take break from endgame while leveling. For now I just want to take break from leveling, but there is no proper endgame in this game. Yeah, there are still things to do for me. I wanted to restore progress on characters, I had to delete to change their race to proper one, as Blizzard still don't admit their mistake and don't provide free race change.

For now I've made another DF free trial (thx God it ends soon) character in order to have unbiased opinion about DF leveling, because my first free trial character was made long ago, didn't have dragonriding leveled and I just don't remember all details. What I've discovered - is that Blizzard don't even give me dragonriding immediately after arriving on Dragon Isles. Big fail.

I don't get you here. This season has a fairly easy but still fun raid that is quite easy to PuG and as always has M+ available. On the PvP side we have everything we had before PLUS solo shuffle. There is a lot more endgame than WoD had and I'd even say it is much more accessible as well. Heck for the first time in forever there is a solid reason to run Heroic Dungeons (1 Normal raid ilvl item per week for 5 dungeon runs is not a bad deal) and even LFR is valid since you can upgrade the loot with Drake crests. 10.1 has a lot of progression paths that are not gated behind having massive playtime or having friends and a guild.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I assume that people who focus on world content are not doing much instanced content.

With me it looks more like - Open world content, rare hunts, transmog hunting and collecting stuff i like the most, but i also do some dungeons(m0 if there's weekly), not mythic+ because i don't like that type of content and i like that they added a quest to do 5 heroic dungeons.

From raids i do LFR, because i have social issues that stresses the f of me in the long run, but as i started my IRL journey to start overcoming that, i will be sooner or later looking for a chill, casual guild that does normals just for entertainment and activity in group, but even with that open world content is what fasctinates me the most usually, events such as recent diablo one.

EDIT: I don't feel zaralek caverns at all, what you and other posters said makes sense, but i dunno, i was waiting for this patch because idea of ungerground zone felt fresh, but content there is not very exciting in my case.

[Nymrohd]

With me it looks more like - Open world content, rare hunts, transmog hunting and collecting stuff i like the most, but i also do some dungeons(m0 if there's weekly), not mythic+ because i don't like that type of content and i like that they added a quest to do 5 heroic dungeons.

From raids i do LFR, because i have social issues that stresses the f of me in the long run, but as i started my IRL journey to start overcoming that, i will be sooner or later looking for a chill, casual guild that does normals just for entertainment and activity in group, but even with that open world content is what fasctinates me the most usually, events such as recent diablo one.

EDIT: I don't feel zaralek caverns at all, what you and other posters said makes sense, but i dunno, i was waiting for this patch because idea of ungerground zone felt fresh, but content there is not very exciting in my case.

I think the issue is simply Zaralek itself. The zone is forgetable.
a) The ceiling is too low for dragonriding. The zone lacks verticality. Imo the different areas should have been in multiple levels.
b) The zone lacks visual impact. Aberrus looks cool but that's it. Loamm has some unique architecture but it is very low key and the colour palette is very subdued. Works for what it is supposed to be but won't wow anyone. Glimerogg is reused assets and doesn't look like a place anyone lives. Djaradin area is completely disappointing. They really lack any impressive architecture. And the rest of the environment is imo lacking. Compare it to Azjol Nerub with its artificial scale and impressive architecture and Deepholm with its massive size and the multicolored crystals and the Temple of Earth
c) First couple of resets the zone was bugged as hell. I am still not sure the World Bosses are working. I have yet to see anyone get loot from them and the shadow elder almost always seems to bug out and just target random people rapidly while glitching.
d) this is very much a personal opinion but the zone's best reward is the mogs and you can get the mogs within the first couple of hours of playtime as you complete the week 1 campaign. The other colors you can get from world quests/treasures are not nearly as cool and none of the pets and mounts are particularly unique or striking.

[WowIsDead64]

With me it looks more like - Open world content, rare hunts, transmog hunting and collecting stuff i like the most, but i also do some dungeons(m0 if there's weekly), not mythic+ because i don't like that type of content and i like that they added a quest to do 5 heroic dungeons.

From raids i do LFR, because i have social issues that stresses the f of me in the long run, but as i started my IRL journey to start overcoming that, i will be sooner or later looking for a chill, casual guild that does normals just for entertainment and activity in group, but even with that open world content is what fasctinates me the most usually, events such as recent diablo one.

EDIT: I don't feel zaralek caverns at all, what you and other posters said makes sense, but i dunno, i was waiting for this patch because idea of ungerground zone felt fresh, but content there is not very exciting in my case.

I like group content, but it has way too many downsides, that limit enjoyment, you can get from it. It's scheduled, you can't play it early in a morning, long queues, players AFKing, DCing, being toxic, noobish, exceeding competition, where it's not needed, etc. Problems are exactly the same, as back in WotLK. For example you wait for tank for 20 minutes and he goes AFK immediately after joining group. You know. Rules have always been the same. If you can't dedicate 10 minutes of your life to this game - just DON'T queue to group content right now. So, in most cases group content is good as backup content to change scenery from time to time, but it just can't be primary content for me. When I log into game - I want to do what I want, where I want and when I want. Group content just doesn't meet this requirement.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I think the issue is simply Zaralek itself. The zone is forgetable.

c) First couple of resets the zone was bugged as hell. I am still not sure the World Bosses are working. I have yet to see anyone get loot from them and the shadow elder almost always seems to bug out and just target random people rapidly while glitching.

Yeah, honestly im not sure about these world bosses either, do they need to be killed in special order or there is some hidden thingy that makes the loot to drop or they just made drops abysmall, even lower than they were from normal wb, but at least you were getting there something from time to time and you saw people getting loot.

Some things that they did in this patch are very questionable and they should provide more transparency and that is one of the things why shadowlands was more annoying to me than enjoyable in many cases, like that last change with rares in zaralek cavern, because they don't want it to be a rare hunt like in Forbidden Shores, then what they actually want for people to do in that place really?

[Nymrohd]

Yeah, honestly im not sure about these world bosses either, do they need to be killed in special order or there is some hidden thingy that makes the loot to drop or they just made drops abysmall, even lower than they were from normal wb, but at least you were getting there something from time to time and you saw people getting loot.

I got my alts through the zone this weekend for the mogs, killed the world bosses three times in a row with full raids. NOONE got loot. That's not normal.
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...gear/447367/25

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I got my alts through the zone this weekend for the mogs, killed the world bosses three times in a row with full raids. NOONE got loot. That's not normal.

I had the same results and it's not like previous world bosses were giving you loot every week, so if they really lowered that then i don't know what they were thinking.

Edit: Just saw your link to forum post, if it's a bug in the end, then they take a long ass time to fix it.

[Nymrohd]

I had the same results and it's not like previous world bosses were giving you loot every week, so if they really lowered that then i don't know what they were thinking.

You still saw who in your raid group got loot on the chat log. I scrolled back each time and NO ONE got loot from their loot table, just generic greens.

[WowIsDead64]

Major problem with group content is the same, as it has always been. Wanna other players to be more dedicated? You have to be more dedicated too. Yeah, things happen, like tanks starting to rush and pull too much at the end of dungeon, in content where it's way too dangerous, like in Cata timewalking dungeons (imagine, what hell they were back when they were current, if we'd take into account, that class mechanics were nerfed to Vanilla's level back then), then group is wiped and even more time is wasted, you leave group, get CD or even deserter, get frustrated. Answer is - find guild, where players would always ready to do content with you. But then you should be ready to do content with them. But what if you want to do your own business?

[vashe9]

Major problem with group content is the same, as it has always been. Wanna other players to be more dedicated? You have to be more dedicated too. Yeah, things happen, like tanks starting to rush and pull too much at the end of dungeon, in content where it's way too dangerous, like in Cata timewalking dungeons (imagine, what hell they were back when they were current, if we'd take into account, that class mechanics were nerfed to Vanilla's level back then), then group is wiped and even more time is wasted, you leave group, get CD or even deserter, get frustrated. Answer is - find guild, where players would always ready to do content with you. But then you should be ready to do content with them. But what if you want to do your own business?

I dont think we are playing the same game, I'm a hunter and the first week with 420 ilvl I could almost solo the TW dungeons... (or was it in the pre season ?) All my 5 weeekly dungeon were "run with all the mobs until boss and aoe". Bosses take like 15 sec to kill

[Nymrohd]

I dont think we are playing the same game, I'm a hunter and the first week with 420 ilvl I could almost solo the TW dungeons... (or was it in the pre season ?) All my 5 weeekly dungeon were "run with all the mobs until boss and aoe". Bosses take like 15 sec to kill

Yeah I did some Cata TW this week to finish leveling my Evoker and while I was kept fairly busy as a healer and a lot of people broke themselves upon Ozruk's body, we did not really have any wipes.