welp they finally did it: WoW Token on Wrath Classic

[Relapses]

You were asking me for evidence that they are not doing it hand-by-hand like they did back in the days as you have wrote in post #293. Now you are changing it to "human interaction at some point" moving the goal post again like you are doing all the time in this thread.

They never did it completely by-hand. Maybe GMs in Vanilla would fuck around with players more but there's no way anybody knows whether they still do this.

(Side note: Are you actually nostalgic for the way Blizzard "used to" handle botting? Christ.)

So you want to say they are not doing that anymore with the tokens existence? Bedcause the token works so great? lmao

They banned people for buying gold before the token existed. They are banning people for buying gold after the token has been implemented. They're never going to stop people from buying botted gold completely but they can do things which make the allure of botted gold less enticing.

It's one of many solutions nobody writes that they have to tackle the problem only this way. Also the whole debacle in this mess is not finding the perfect solution against botting but them knowingly using that issue under a false flag to profit from the problem saying "but we do that against botting guys". You still didn't engage why botting and gold selling is still a thing in retail then and I know why, because be both know it doesn't work

Considering my argument has never been that the token stops botting, I really don't know what you're getting at here.

Do you want to know what the real solution to botting is?

It's for Blizzard to completely rewrite the entire fucking game from the ground up with the knowledge of how botting works. It would also require the complete evisceration of the add-on community because they'd have to disable the ability for players to use lua. It would need to be a kernel-level strategic upheaval unlike anything Blizzard has ever undertaken before. We're not talking Cataclsym world revamp, we're talking rewriting every single line of code in the game in a way that prevents botters from being able to use software. In all likelihood, such an endeavor would cost Blizzard more money than they'd spend if they were to just develop a completely new MMO from scratch. And even then, there would still be incentive to create bots because WoW's virtual currency is able to be exchanged for real world currency.

This is a losing battle. The purpose of the token isn't to eliminate botting, it's to diminish the impact of it. It's to discourage people from using cryptocurrency-adjacent botfarms to generate WoW gold as a "side hustle." It's to make the game safer and more secure for the average player by not forcing them onto websites run by actual fucking criminals. That's the purpose of the token. And yeah, Blizzard profits from the token -- at no point have I ever denied this -- I just think the net positives for the game outweigh the net negatives.

[Leodric]

[QUOTE=Relapses;54129305]They never did it completely by-hand. Maybe GMs in Vanilla would fuck around with players more but there's no way anybody knows whether they still do this.
Yes they did ban bots back in the days by hand. You had dedicated GMs for each realm. I even have a personal story at the end of vanilla where I wrote a ticket after I saw a bot farming the ogres in the burning steps and the GM teleporting infront of me and baning the bot, after I tried to fuck around with the bot.

(Side note: Are you actually nostalgic for the way Blizzard "used to" handle botting? Christ.)

Yes, them actually giving a fuck for their players and having active GMs where you wrote a ticket and got an answer after several minutes was a great time.

They banned people for buying gold before the token existed. They are banning people for buying gold after the token has been implemented. They're never going to stop people from buying botted gold completely but they can do things which make the allure of botted gold less enticing.

Let's use your logic then - "but you can't prove that they are still banning players who use RMT"

Considering my argument has never been that the token stops botting, I really don't know what you're getting at here.

You said the market will collapse, then said it will take a few weeks for it to collapse and now it won't stop botting at all, lmao.

Do you want to know what the real solution to botting is?

It's for Blizzard to completely rewrite the entire fucking game from the ground up with the knowledge of how botting works. It would also require the complete evisceration of the add-on community because they'd have to disable the ability to use LUA. It would need to be a kernel-level strategic upheaval unlike anything Blizzard has ever undertaken before. We're not talking Cataclsym world revamp, we're talking rewriting every single line of code in the game in a way that prevents botters from being able to use software. In all likelihood, such an endeavor would cost Blizzard more money than they'd spend if they were to just develop a completely new MMO from scratch. And even then, there would still be incentive to create bots because WoW's virtual currency is able to be exchanged for real world currency.

This is a losing battle. The purpose of the token isn't to eliminate botting, it's to diminish the impact of it. It's to discourage people from using cryptocurrency-adjacent botfarms to generate WoW gold as a "side hustle." It's to make the game safer and more secure for the average player by not forcing them onto websites run by actual fucking criminals. That's the purpose of the token. And yeah, Blizzard profits from the token -- at no point have I ever denied this -- I just think the net positives for the game outweigh the net negatives.

Wrong, it will increase the demand for gold as it has done in retail. Having an offical way to buy gold now just starts an arms-race to out-gold eachother, which at the end also increases blizzards profit

[GabrielKnight]

This argument is going in circles and I'm surprised y'all ain't bored yet

It is kinda fascinating to watch, not gonna lie. I like to envision it as some kind of never ending Jedi light-sabers battle, with Duel of the Fates music in the background.

[Relapses]

Yes they did ban bots back in the days by hand. You had dedicated GMs for each realm. I even have a personal story at the end of vanilla where I wrote a ticket after I saw a bot farming the ogres in the burning steps and the GM teleporting infront of me and baning the bot, after I tried to fuck around with the bot.

...that botter's name? Albert Einstein. Did everybody clap after the botter was presumably vaporized by the GM both in game and in real life?

Yes, them actually giving a fuck for their players and having active GMs where you wrote a ticket and got an answer after several minutes was a great time.

lmfao - yep, sure. Blizzard has always been known for its lightning-quick GM responses.

You said the market will collapse, then said it will take a few weeks for it to collapse and now it won't stop botting at all, lmao.

Again, you're misinterpreting the argument despite me explaining it pretty clearly several times to you. When I said the market was collapsing, I was referring to the guy botting gold trying to cash out. He is artificially pumping the value of botted gold by encouraging players to use this botted gold to buy WoW tokens; he is dumping his own botted gold so that he can capitalize on the current fever pitch of demand. Over the course of weeks and months, this demand will substantially decrease and while botted gold will still have value, that value will be less then than it is now.

Wrong, it will increase the demand for gold as it has done in retail. Having an offical way to buy gold now just starts an arms-race to out-gold eachother, which at the end also increases blizzards profit

Man, I'm not about to get into the insanely stupid "WoW is P2W 'cuz token" argument. Read one of my responses in this 173-page thread on this topic if you're curious about my thoughts on the subject. (Spoiler: This is a very shitty take.)

[Leodric]

...that botter's name? Albert Einstein. Did everybody clap after the botter was presumably vaporized by the GM both in game and in real life?

You can read several stories like that all over the internet, even on youtube. But let me guess, they are all lying right? It is well known that GMs have interacted with players and stopped botting manually, that's no mystery.

lmfao - yep, sure. Blizzard has always been known for its lightning-quick GM responses.

Yes, GMs responded very quick back then, not always but especially compared to today you had help very fast. Tell me you haven't played vanilla without telling me you haven't played vanilla.

Again, you're misinterpreting the argument despite me explaining it pretty clearly several times to you. When I said the market was collapsing, I was referring to the guy botting gold trying to cash out. He is artificially pumping the value of botted gold by encouraging players to use this botted gold to buy WoW tokens; he is dumping his own botted gold so that he can capitalize on the current fever pitch of demand. Over the course of weeks and months, this demand will substantially decrease and while botted gold will still have value, that value will be less then than it is now.

Makes no sense since the market for gold will actually increase, just as stated by the botter himself and how it happend in retail.

Man, I'm not about to get into the insanely stupid "WoW is P2W 'cuz token" argument. Read one of my responses in this 173-page thread on this topic if you're curious about my thoughts on the subject. (Spoiler: This is a very shitty take.)

Never said it's P2W, but people wil out-gold eachother, for example in GDKP runs.

(Spoiler: This is a very shitty take.)

Yeah I read the post, the take is indeed very shitty

[Relapses]

You can read several stories like that all over the internet, even on youtube. But let me guess, they are all lying right? It is well known that GMs have interacted with players and stopped botting manually, that's no mystery.

Yes, GMs responded very quick back then, not always but especially compared to today you had help very fast. Tell me you haven't played vanilla without telling me you haven't played vanilla.

Nostalgia is one helluva drug.

Makes no sense since the market for gold will actually increase, just as stated by the botter himself and how it happend in retail.

Ah right, our 'ol pal the guy on reddit and paragon of morality. I forgot about him. There's no way he'd be incentivized to tell people that the token's good for his business and encourage people to continue buying botted gold. I simply cannot think of a single reason for this!

Never said it's P2W, but people wil out-gold eachother, for example in GDKP runs.

"I'm not talking about P2W I'm just saying that people will pay money for gold then use the gold to buy items in the game."

Hm...

[Leodric]

Nostalgia is one helluva drug.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...light_hearted/
Here you have the stories of a game master who worked as one since vanilla for a few years. Still Nostalgia or are you going to ignore that?
Also on youtube just watch the video "What it's REALLY like to be a World of Warcraft Gamemaster." + the comments below, all sharing similiar stories, but let me guess - all lying?

"I'm not talking about P2W I'm just saying that people will pay money for gold then use the gold to buy items in the game."

Hm...

I don't see how I am implying that this is P2W. I don't even think a P2W in the general sense exists for WoW like in other games. Weird take

[Relapses]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...light_hearted/
Here you have the stories of a game master who worked as one since vanilla for a few years. Still Nostalgia or are you going to ignore that?
Also on youtube just watch the video "What it's REALLY like to be a World of Warcraft Gamemaster." + the comments below, all sharing similiar stories, but let me guess - all lying?

I'm not saying they're lying. I'm just saying you're being weirdly nostalgic about an experience that is anecdotal at best.

I don't see how I am implying that this is P2W. I don't even think a P2W in the general sense exists for WoW like in other games. Weird take

I guess I need to apologize for assuming that's the direction you were going since you literally described the mechanics by which people refer to the game as P2W but never actually said it. The point remains, that whole slippery slope is not one we need to go into.

[crusadernero]

That's your opinion. The devs disagree with you. Tough shit my guy.

Ofc they do. One feature is good for the players, the other is increased revenue.

[Relapses]

Ofc they do. One feature is good for the players, the other is increased revenue.

I agree that the token is good for players but I fail to see how the RDF would increase revenue.

[crusadernero]

I agree that the token is good for players but I fail to see how the RDF would increase revenue.

Wow, you really are a hysterical and special kind of breed.

That said, I think they just really should go further and just let us buy gear. Cut the middle man and tedious work of attending GDKP. Just let me buy the gear!

[Relapses]

That said, I think they just really should go further and just let us buy gear. Cut the middle man and tedious work of attending GDKP. Just let me buy the gear!

Let's go even further: Blizzard should pay players $15/mo to play WoW and each player is now entitled to a monthly one-on-one Zoom call with a WoW developer where they can call them slurs for no more than two hours at a time.

[crusadernero]

Let's go even further: Blizzard should pay players $15/mo to play WoW and each player is now entitled you to a monthly one-on-one Zoom call with a WoW developer where they can call them slurs for no more than two hours at a time.

lol now I know whos behind a certain other account on this site.

[liyroot]

1. Blizz doesn't want to stop bots. Something at simple as a capcha before battlegrounds etc would lower numbers. Blizz did nothing. Actually they did find bots and don't ban them until a "ban wave".

2. Blizz is in bed with bots. How hard would it to be to hire a bunch of Chinese slaves for 50 cents an hour to farm gold? Pretty easy considering Activision has a giant Chinese shareholder and China is known for treating their people like slaves to siphon money from the bloated wallets of westerners.
Gold selling is great for Activisions bottom line. Now, everything in the game can be bought with gold, including impossible to get items like the Warglaves. Combine that with the natural "slot machine" nature of loot drops and you now have a perfect casino. 100% income. 100% addictive.

3. WoW Token is just botting with taxes. Botting may be more profitable then the WoW Token but in the long run it's worth it. Now they can "pay" a "player" in wow time to be a gold farmer for them. A person will now trade X hours farming gold to get wow time that they will use to farm more gold. This is amazing for Activision. They now cut the 50 cents an hour Chinese slave out and have the consumer doing all the work. Best of all, they still get to sell gold, now to everyone instead of only cheaters, and have successfully monitized every thing in the game. Want that legendary item? Only 20 WoW Tokens. This is exactly how Diablo Immortal works.

Have fun.

[Jeebo]

1. Blizz doesn't want to stop bots. Something at simple as a capcha before battlegrounds etc would lower numbers. Blizz did nothing. Actually they did find bots and don't ban them until a "ban wave".

2. Blizz is in bed with bots. How hard would it to be to hire a bunch of Chinese slaves for 50 cents an hour to farm gold? Pretty easy considering Activision has a giant Chinese shareholder and China is known for treating their people like slaves to siphon money from the bloated wallets of westerners.
Gold selling is great for Activisions bottom line. Now, everything in the game can be bought with gold, including impossible to get items like the Warglaves. Combine that with the natural "slot machine" nature of loot drops and you now have a perfect casino. 100% income. 100% addictive.

3. WoW Token is just botting with taxes. Botting may be more profitable then the WoW Token but in the long run it's worth it. Now they can "pay" a "player" in wow time to be a gold farmer for them. A person will now trade X hours farming gold to get wow time that they will use to farm more gold. This is amazing for Activision. They now cut the 50 cents an hour Chinese slave out and have the consumer doing all the work. Best of all, they still get to sell gold, now to everyone instead of only cheaters, and have successfully monitized every thing in the game. Want that legendary item? Only 20 WoW Tokens. This is exactly how Diablo Immortal works.

Have fun.

They don't even need to hire 'em. In the end, someone has to buy the token(a sub) for this gold to have value anyway. It's a win-win for blizzard, they get playerbase that would otherwise not play at all(people who grind gold to buy yourself a token) on top of people who already playing and willing to buy the gold for said token.

[liyroot]

They don't even need to hire 'em. In the end, someone has to buy the token(a sub) for this gold to have value anyway. It's a win-win for blizzard, they get playerbase that would otherwise not play at all(people who grind gold to buy yourself a token) on top of people who already playing and willing to buy the gold for said token.

Dont forget the GDKP system is also free labor for Activision. Poor players spend time to help rich players get a slot machine roll. Then the poor players can have their turn gambling. It's honestly genius.

A bunch of twenty something's spending 20+ hours a week farming gold and running people through raids for free.

If Activision really wanted to get rid of botting. Something as simple as a gold trading cooldown would of eliminated it.

[Jeebo]

Dont forget the GDKP system is also free labor for Activision. Poor players spend time to help rich players get a slot machine roll. Then the poor players can have their turn gambling. It's honestly genius.

A bunch of twenty something's spending 20+ hours a week farming gold and running people through raids for free.

If Activision really wanted to get rid of botting. Something as simple as a gold trading cooldown would of eliminated it.

Yep. And worst part - you'll never get your items "quick" in those GDKPs unless you buy gold pretty much. Leadership cut is like 20%(was like back in TBC at least lol) usually, so the main guy even if he's not selling gold or something is gonna be sitting on stacks over stacks.
Gold trading CD, or stuff like "if over X gold traded within 24h - guy gotta be on your friend list for a month or more"

[liyroot]

Yep. And worst part - you'll never get your items "quick" in those GDKPs unless you buy gold pretty much. Leadership cut is like 20%(was like back in TBC at least lol) usually, so the main guy even if he's not selling gold or something is gonna be sitting on stacks over stacks.
Gold trading CD, or stuff like "if over X gold traded within 24h - guy gotta be on your friend list for a month or more"

Yeah guy on your friendlist, etc. We could come up with ideas all day.

It's interesting that in Diablo Immortal they also make you run the raid before your loot roll. Very similar system.

[Lochton]

https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/news/w...classic-333137

*Grabs Popcorn*

Not keen on the whole, "I told you so" thing but.. I told you so. This was 100% bound to happen after people asked for Classic.

Not an ounce of surprise in that, my surprise is with the people who got outraged about it being added.

[liyroot]

Not keen on the whole, "I told you so" thing but.. I told you so. This was 100% bound to happen after people asked for Classic.

Not an ounce of surprise in that, my surprise is with the people who got outraged about it being added.

Maybe because there are countless interviews of the devs saying they would never put it in.