[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Huehuecoyotl]

A biased poll by pro EU campaign group laughingly called "Best for Britain" unsurprisingly shows a little over half want closer ties to the EU. Even they dare not ask the question of their members "Do you want to rejoin the EU?"

Nothing to see there Huey and no like millions of others, far from the shackles of the EU walls closing in around us, each day that passes I celebrate being a little more freer. You should too.

Meanwhile more Brexit benefits and another vote of confidence in being ex-EU as...

Jaguar Land Rover picks Somerset in the UK for multi-billion-pound car battery plant

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/jaguar-lan...4anU0hIKP8BErf

Thank you Brexit.

Yes, it's Brexit that caused this to happen. Just Brexit. Nothing but Brexit.

The UK government offered incentives worth £500m to help Jaguar and Land Rover set up a new electric battery “giga-factory”.

Oh wait, what's this? So they are moving here purely because we offered them a huge bribe? So that gullible people can say that it's a "Brexit benefit"? And in the same article you quoted:

The decision by the Indian bluechip company would give a boost to the British car industry coming days after major automakers including Vauxhall owner Stellantis and Ford warned that looming post-Brexit trade rules risked making it unviable.

So Brexit only works if we spend tax payer money bribing companies. And even when we do, plenty of companies are saying it's STILL not worth it.

Once again a dribbles link undermines his own point. One day he'll read the shit he links.

[Nymrohd]

Oh wait, what's this? So they are moving here purely because we offered them a huge bribe? So that gullible people can say that it's a "Brexit benefit"?

I mean within the EU a massive bribe like this could be seen as unlawful. EU regulators have repeatedly gone after specific countries for similar practices with sadly mixed results.

[Veggie50]

I mean within the EU a massive bribe like this could be seen as unlawful. EU regulators have repeatedly gone after specific countries for similar practices with sadly mixed results.

High IQ play really, because every idiot can see the UK will move back to the open market in the next 5 years, which means they get the 500 million check, and once they’re up and running the downsides will be gone.

[dribbles]

Brexit Caused a Third of UK Food Price Inflation

I mean, what else needs to be said. £7 billion added to food cost because of the added border check.

The LSE who said this, like many educational UK establishments, are a hotbed of mainly leftie europhiles. They would probably blame Brexit for food price inflation in Germany of almost 30% in two years as well if they could.

Since 2021, grocery prices in Germany have gone up a staggering 28.6 per cent

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...owerhouse.html

Sensible pragmatists on the other hand will just say it is affecting every nation in the world. I know that Great Britain is very influential globally, more so now thanks to Brexit, but no grocery price inflation across the world is nothing to do with Brexit.

Yes, it's Brexit that caused this to happen. Just Brexit. Nothing but Brexit.



Oh wait, what's this? So they are moving here purely because we offered them a huge bribe? So that gullible people can say that it's a "Brexit benefit"? And in the same article you quoted:



So Brexit only works if we spend tax payer money bribing companies. And even when we do, plenty of companies are saying it's STILL not worth it.

Once again a dribbles link undermines his own point. One day he'll read the shit he links.

If we were still in the EU I'd wager our weekly contributions to them would now be approaching close to £500m a week, or in your words enough for a huge bribe. If we spend that money attracting inward UK investment, rather than sending such a huge amount to the EU, surely that's a Brexit benefit for the UK.

I can't see what your problem with the potential creation of 9000 new UK jobs, thanks to Brexit, is. Almost as if you want the UK to fail in order to blame Brexit so that you can falsely make the case for re-join. Not happening though is it as thanks to Brexit, unlike much of the EU, Britain is booming.

Don't see much on here now about the updated IMF predictions for the UK released recently do we, re-joiners all gone surprisingly quiet on that score...

Quelle surprise.

[Huehuecoyotl]

If we were still in the EU I'd wager our weekly contributions to them would now be approaching close to £500m a week, or in your words enough for a huge bribe. If we spend that money attracting inward UK investment, rather than sending such a huge amount to the EU, surely that's a Brexit benefit for the UK.

I can't see what your problem with the potential creation of 9000 new UK jobs, thanks to Brexit, is. Almost as if you want the UK to fail in order to blame Brexit so that you can falsely make the case for re-join. Not happening though is it as thanks to Brexit, unlike much of the EU, Britain is booming.

Don't see much on here now about the updated IMF predictions for the UK released recently do we, re-joiners all gone surprisingly quiet on that score...

Quelle surprise.

Fuck you dribbles. You don't get to come on here and make statements about other posters not responding. You've made a career out of coming into this thread, posting bullshit that gets utterly and completely refuted, then moving onto the next ridiculous talking point without even the pretence of debate. Don't suddenly come all high and mighty pretending that people aren't debating your points because they're somehow valid.

You want to talk about IMF predictions? You mean the ones that state we're going into a recession next year, rather than this? That our interest rates are going to have to go up further and faster than other countries, because our inflation STILL isn't coming down fast enough. Because so many things are facing larger increases because of the red tape that Brexit has imposed on them.

As for "booming", the economy went up 0.1% in Q1 2023. I can see why a Brexiteer would consider that "booming" when you compare it to the 5% fall in GDP that Brexit has caused. It's fucking massive compared to that. But it really isn't anything to be proud of, is it?

In the meantime, the only reason why the economy hasn't stalled even more is the enormous number of immigrants the Tories are allowing in. It's been calculated that immigrants will add between £19-30bn to UK GDP in 2023. Without the record number of immigrants, we'd be in a recession already. Not sure how that ties in with Brexit taking back control of borders, but I'm not a racist Brexiteer, so I find it difficult to get my head around how their minds work.

And Brexiteers don't get to pull the "do you want the country to fail?" card. Brexit has damaged this country more than Covid did, and it was entirely self inflicted. You don't get to pull the patriotic bullshit when you're a supporter of a process funded and supported by Russians that literally wanted to weaken the West.

Is that enough debate for you? Are you going to engage now, or waddle off and stay silent until you jump to the next lame talking point?

[LeGin v3]

And Brexiteers don't get to pull the "do you want the country to fail?" card. Brexit has damaged this country more than Covid did, and it was entirely self inflicted. You don't get to pull the patriotic bullshit when you're a supporter of a process funded and supported by Russians that literally wanted to weaken the West.

Absolutely this.

The "all you need is a bit of positivity" ship has long since sailed.

Dribbles - come on here and make us all laugh, that's fine, but do not ever pretend that the lies told by the free marketeers / the Russians seeking to destabilise the West / the racist, dog-whistling right wing media etc. were ever acts of patriotism. Farage is no patriot. Neither is Banks. Nor Rees-Mogg etc.

If you genuinely are British, you're a disgrace. If you're not: congratulations, you win teh interweb.

[Iliena]

It’s mind-blowing how absolutely transparent dribbles’ posting is to anyone except those who should be actually paying attention to it. Woeful.

Yep and he has been getting away with it for over 1600 pages now! While Huehue gets a infraction for saying Fuck you Dribbles.

Fuck it ...Fuck You Dribbles!

[Fuiking]

Yep and he has been getting away with it for over 1600 pages now! While Huehue gets a infraction for saying Fuck you Dribbles.

Fuck it ...Fuck You Dribbles!

I gave up on the modding on this forum. If I eat an infraction, it is what is it.. I wont cry myself to sleep over it.

[Kiria]

Fuck you dribbles. You don't get to come on here and make statements about other posters not responding. You've made a career out of coming into this thread, posting bullshit that gets utterly and completely refuted, then moving onto the next ridiculous talking point without even the pretence of debate. Don't suddenly come all high and mighty pretending that people aren't debating your points because they're somehow valid.

You want to talk about IMF predictions? You mean the ones that state we're going into a recession next year, rather than this? That our interest rates are going to have to go up further and faster than other countries, because our inflation STILL isn't coming down fast enough. Because so many things are facing larger increases because of the red tape that Brexit has imposed on them.

As for "booming", the economy went up 0.1% in Q1 2023. I can see why a Brexiteer would consider that "booming" when you compare it to the 5% fall in GDP that Brexit has caused. It's fucking massive compared to that. But it really isn't anything to be proud of, is it?

In the meantime, the only reason why the economy hasn't stalled even more is the enormous number of immigrants the Tories are allowing in. It's been calculated that immigrants will add between £19-30bn to UK GDP in 2023. Without the record number of immigrants, we'd be in a recession already. Not sure how that ties in with Brexit taking back control of borders, but I'm not a racist Brexiteer, so I find it difficult to get my head around how their minds work.

And Brexiteers don't get to pull the "do you want the country to fail?" card. Brexit has damaged this country more than Covid did, and it was entirely self inflicted. You don't get to pull the patriotic bullshit when you're a supporter of a process funded and supported by Russians that literally wanted to weaken the West.

Is that enough debate for you? Are you going to engage now, or waddle off and stay silent until you jump to the next lame talking point?

If I could take the brunt of the infraction for you I would, this needed to be said.

[Nymrohd]

If I could take the brunt of the infraction for you I would, this needed to be said.

Honestly if someone flames in response to flamebait, I think whoever flamed should get an infraction and the flamebait should get at least three times the points. And imho almost every post by dribbles IS flamebait. Stop telling people how to react, focus on how people act first.

[dribbles]

Fuck you dribbles. You don't get to come on here and make statements about other posters not responding. You've made a career out of coming into this thread, posting bullshit that gets utterly and completely refuted, then moving onto the next ridiculous talking point without even the pretence of debate. Don't suddenly come all high and mighty pretending that people aren't debating your points because they're somehow valid.

You want to talk about IMF predictions? You mean the ones that state we're going into a recession next year, rather than this? That our interest rates are going to have to go up further and faster than other countries, because our inflation STILL isn't coming down fast enough. Because so many things are facing larger increases because of the red tape that Brexit has imposed on them.

As for "booming", the economy went up 0.1% in Q1 2023. I can see why a Brexiteer would consider that "booming" when you compare it to the 5% fall in GDP that Brexit has caused. It's fucking massive compared to that. But it really isn't anything to be proud of, is it?

In the meantime, the only reason why the economy hasn't stalled even more is the enormous number of immigrants the Tories are allowing in. It's been calculated that immigrants will add between £19-30bn to UK GDP in 2023. Without the record number of immigrants, we'd be in a recession already. Not sure how that ties in with Brexit taking back control of borders, but I'm not a racist Brexiteer, so I find it difficult to get my head around how their minds work.

And Brexiteers don't get to pull the "do you want the country to fail?" card. Brexit has damaged this country more than Covid did, and it was entirely self inflicted. You don't get to pull the patriotic bullshit when you're a supporter of a process funded and supported by Russians that literally wanted to weaken the West.

Is that enough debate for you? Are you going to engage now, or waddle off and stay silent until you jump to the next lame talking point?

More than happy to engage but there are some astounding claims and misinformation in there as usual that need answering.

Legal controlled immigration where all applicants from wherever and of whatever race creed or colour are treated equally is great. Uncontrolled immigration and absolute free movement of people from a small segment of the world not so much. These are the aims and a work in progress that Brexit seeks to address, not possible as EU members, and I don't think I've ever said otherwise. Are you against equality for all immigrants to the UK or is it only for mainly white privileged EU ones? One policy is clearly racist and the one supported by Brexiteers like me is not, which side of the fence do you re-joiners sit on.

If UK economic GDP grows by only 0.1% and near comparables have gone off a cliff since Brexit into recession, then yes it is fair to say we are doing very well.

How has Brexit weakened the west? Isn't it more accurate to say EU expansionist policies are doing this? And no, the EU is not and never has been the final guarantor of Western strength. That is down to NATO the five eyes and AUKUS, something the UK remains increasingly invested in and once again thanks to Brexit and with no more compulsory EU contributions from the UK, allows us to publicy state the ambition to up defence spending to 2.5% GDP. Looking at flight radar to this day there are British and American aircraft in the air protecting EU territory yet where are much of the EU on this? Nowhere to be seen.

If anything Brexit, in yet another benefit, has made the west stronger rather than weaker. Why would the Russians support and fund that?

[Huehuecoyotl]

More than happy to engage but there are some astounding claims and misinformation in there as usual that need answering.

No. No you aren't. You've never engaged in this entire debate, we have page after page proving it. You come on, post a link and make a statement supposedly based on it. The link you provide doesn't support your argument (and often flat out contradicts it). When people explain, clearly and precisely, why your original point is incorrect, you'll ignore any point made and move onto the next one. Or repeat your lies, pretending you've haven't been proven wrong. Or pretend that the argument against proves you right. You've got a variety of moves to avoid debate, but all of them show you are acting in bad faith.

Legal controlled immigration where all applicants from wherever and of whatever race creed or colour are treated equally is great. Uncontrolled immigration and absolute free movement of people from a small segment of the world not so much. These are the aims and a work in progress that Brexit seeks to address, not possible as EU members, and I don't think I've ever said otherwise. Are you against equality for all immigrants to the UK or is it only for mainly white privileged EU ones? One policy is clearly racist and the one supported by Brexiteers like me is not, which side of the fence do you re-joiners sit on.

Feel free and go back to the 2016 vote. Show me where the Vote Leave campaign were arguing on the basis that it was racist to allow EU members to freely travel to this country, and that we needed to replace them with a variety of races and creeds from around the world, in record numbers. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Actually I won't wait, because I haven't got time for your evasion and lies. You won't find any, because Leave just repeatedly said that immigration was a curse, was caused by the EU, and if we stayed in we'd get a million more from Turkey. All lies. The only place where the truth of what was going to happen was mentioned was in what Leave laughably referred to as "Project Fear". The Remain camp stated quite clearly that removing EU workers would mean that our economy would need more from other places.

Leave won because ALL the racists voted for them, in strong part due to the lies they told about immigration. Now here you are, trumpeting how immigration is brilliant, and that we're racists because we only wanted people from the EU to come here. Go tell everyone that voted for Brexit that immigration was not only a result of Brexit, it was a PLANNED result of Brexit. See how long it is before you get punched in the face.

If UK economic GDP grows by only 0.1% and near comparables have gone off a cliff since Brexit into recession, then yes it is fair to say we are doing very well.

I'm confused again. Is GDP going up and down irrelevant (like it is when you claim a 5% fall from Brexit doesn't matter)? Or is it vitally important, as you are now claiming when we get a 0.1% increase? Is there any chance of you remaining even slightly consistent from post to post?

How has Brexit weakened the west? Isn't it more accurate to say EU expansionist policies are doing this? And no, the EU is not and never has been the final guarantor of Western strength. That is down to NATO the five eyes and AUKUS, something the UK remains increasingly invested in and once again thanks to Brexit and with no more compulsory EU contributions from the UK, allows us to publicy state the ambition to up defence spending to 2.5% GDP. Looking at flight radar to this day there are British and American aircraft in the air protecting EU territory yet where are much of the EU on this? Nowhere to be seen.

If Brexit wasn't what Russia wanted, then why did they fund the Leave campaign? And before you say they didn't, talk me through why the report into Russian interference STILL hasn't been published? If they found nothing, why has that report been buried?

And fucking lolz at the Tories having an "ambition" to spend 2.5% of GDP on defence. Considering that's going to go the way of the "40 new hospitals" that the liar in chief Boris kept touting, he might as well promise everyone unicorns and sunlit uplands. Oh wait, that's exactly what Vote Leave did, wasn't it? Lied about the benefits of Brexit, then tried to pretend they never promised anything when all their lies fell apart as Brexit hit the wall of reality.

Once again, you've got nothing. And an increasing number of people in this country now realise it. You can spout your shit as much as you like, your marks are realising they've been had, and are turning against you. Just a question of time now dribbles. We'll be tacking closer to the EU sooner than you think.

[LeGin v3]

How has Brexit weakened the west?

/makes a noise like a sea lion barking

The EU lost a significant military power and a major contributor to the EU budget. The EU is weaker.

The UK lost economic influence, diplomatic leverage and global influence. The UK is weaker.

The EU was the UK's largest trading partner, and the separation has created barriers, tariffs, and increased costs for businesses on both sides. This has resulted in reduced economic growth, decreased investment, and uncertainty in the European and global markets. Both the EU and the UK are weaker.

/Aaarrrfff, aaarrrfff. Aaarrrfff, aaarrrfff.

-----

I can't see an infraction for Huehue? Was it retracted?

[LeGin v3]

Nah, its still there for this post.

I'm being a bit thick... how can you tell? There's no mod edit

[Iliena]

how can you tell?

Bottom right next to Report Post.

[zealo]

Reminder that the mod position is generally along the lines of "you should be a better person, and just not respond to posts you think are blatantly full of bullshit. If they post in a way that looks like they might actually believe their blatant bullshit, we can't infract that because it is their belief. Just put them on ignore, and leave them to keep posting their blatant bullshit."

If he doesn't obviously break a forum rule, he can pretty much do as he pleases.

dribbles probably had the ugliest little smile on his face at someone getting an infraction because of what he posted.

One reason among many for why the moderation on this forum is so poor.

Having the potential motivations of the poster in mind at all when they’re regularly blatantly lying and posting things which are factually not true, is nothing but dereliction against attempting to have any sort of effective moderation going on.

A more seriously run forum would have permanently banned the likes of Dribbles years ago for consistent behaviour like this.

[LeGin v3]

Bottom right next to Report Post.

Ahh... you have to be logged in... there's a little red flag. Learn something new everyday.

But, but, but... aside from the obvious flaws with his posts (baiting, sea-lioning etc.) by his own admission, he's a sex tourist.

Ehrm... #awkward-mod-decisions-to-be-made

Edit...

In fairness, and I don't mean to break forum rules here anyway but positively, mods can't be expected to be arbiters of truth, can they? It'd be easier just to have a global ban on "bad language". Would ensure foul-mouthed degenerates like myself don't start throwing random "cunts" into the discourse willy nilly.

The real problem is not being able to call out disinformation / a troll a troll. Sea-lioning shouldn't be tolerated.

[Iliena]

In fairness, and I don't mean to break forum rules here anyway but positively, mods can't be expected to be arbiters of truth, can they? It'd be easier just to have a global ban on "bad language". Would ensure foul-mouthed degenerates like myself don't start throwing random "cunts" into the discourse willy nilly.

The real problem is not being able to call out disinformation / a troll a troll. Sea-lioning shouldn't be tolerated.

I get what you are saying and in isolation for the odd troll post I agree, but when so many people are debunking what he says constantly, quite often with fact's linked from reputable sources, he totality ignores them or disappears from the thread for a few days to a week.

Then he drops back with fresh new claims about how great Brexit is and totally ignores anything anybody said in response to his previous visit. While using Fact4eu as a source or opinion pieces from rightwing rags as legitimate facts, He hardly ever uses links from more highbrow right wing press as they tend to be less hyperbolic and honest for him to use to farm reactions.

This has been going on since 2017, from his first post:

The mood is hardening in favour of a no deal Brexit.

Every day the news has pictures of European police hospitalising european old age pensioners with batons, as in Catalonia, people realise that if the Brexit vote was to happen in ten years time those same Brussels bully boys could be doing the same to British pensioners in London.

We have had a very very lucky escape and more and more it is looking like no deal is better than any deal.

The tone hasn't changed since then, he is trolling look for reactions plain and simple, its not too much to expect the mod team to add 2+2 when this pattern of behaviour has been going on over such an extended period and has no interested in engaging in a straight and honest conversation about Brexit.

I would be quite happy if they closed this thread in 2020 when we left the EU! But here we still are in 2023 and Brexit is still shit and no sunlit uplands!

[LeGin v3]

/snip

IDD with any of this. I'm not defending Dribbles in any way.

Definitely: my own views have been influenced (I'd argue in a positive way) by posters on this forum.

If that's the case, then there's a genuine argument for prioritising infraction of trolling / sea-lioning etc. over and above penalising ad hominem / bad language etc. The question is how to do so. It requires mods being arbiters of truth, which is impossible.

All that good faith posters can do is to continue to call out lies as they are stated. And to state truths as they become apparent.

This thread should never be closed. It's the ultimate: I told you so.

- - - Updated - - -

Oi - sea lion:

How has Brexit weakened the west?

The EU lost a significant military power and a major contributor to the EU budget. The EU is weaker.

The UK lost economic influence, diplomatic leverage and global influence. The UK is weaker.

The EU was the UK's largest trading partner, and the separation has created barriers, tariffs, and increased costs for businesses on both sides. This has resulted in reduced economic growth, decreased investment, and uncertainty in the European and global markets. Both the EU and the UK are weaker.

Répondez s'il vous plaît

[dribbles]

Oi - sea lion:

Répondez s'il vous plaît

The EU lost a significant military power and a major contributor to the EU budget. The EU is weaker.

The UK lost economic influence, diplomatic leverage and global influence. The UK is weaker.

The EU was the UK's largest trading partner, and the separation has created barriers, tariffs, and increased costs for businesses on both sides. This has resulted in reduced economic growth, decreased investment, and uncertainty in the European and global markets. Both the EU and the UK are weaker.

All of those points you mention Brexit has changed for the better though from a UK pov.

The EU has always relied on NATO for its military strength and defence = no change. The UK no longer contributes to the EU budget = UK stronger.
The UK gained economic independence, sovereignty and global influence = UK stronger. Want to deal with us talk to us, not Brussels.
The EU represents a declining 5% of the world's population, it allowed the UK to trade with the other 95% of the world with permission under EU terms and conditions, effectively the UK had one hand tied behind its back in global trade negotiations. Now free from those EU shackles = UK stronger.

A stronger UK means the west overall is stronger. The EU had their chance to stop Brexit when David Cameron sat down at the negotiating table with them and set out his demands. The fact they refused to entertain them and are now weaker as a result is honestly not my concern.

They always needed us more than we needed them and still do, but as you say and I agree This thread should never be closed. It's the ultimate: I told you so.