Crypt Lord class now possible thanks to Dracthyr Evokers?

[Teriz]

Quite contrary. Nightmare druids are from Legion, tied to artifacts. We also get Death themed druids in form of Thornspeakers in BfA.

As for guardian and feral specs, you don't need to do any special animations... Druids tearing their victims apart, using variety of bleeding effects is just fine. For balance and resto, you just need to add glyphs to alter animations. That's it.

Again, I'm talking about Elerethe Renferal and her spider form and abilities. You can easily emulate them with a Crypt Lord class. The Druid class cannot emulate them at all.

I would also assume that creating glyphs and customization options for a class is a thing which is way easier to do than making whole new class. Customizations are also pretty popular among players which plays a class... And druids are very popular class with huge playerbase.

On the other hand, since this thread, nobody was really demanding a Crypt Lord, and it does not seem that your concept convinced people to want one. I am pretty sure introducing a concept of dark druid would make people interested... But you don't need to waste time and resources on developing new class because of that.

Well you would, since Blizzard isn't going to make another Druid spec for Nightmare druids, and they're not going to reskin an entire specialization. The only real option is to make a new class that somewhat utilizes the concept, like a Crypt Lord class. Once again, the impetus for Blizzard to create a Crypt Lord class is an Azjol Nerub expansion. There is no such impetus to create a spec worth of customization glyphs for a single class.

Last but not least, introducing a new class to the game is very big commitment to the whole balance in present and future content. Each new class brought something new and unique. Crypt Lord concept does not have nothing compelling safe it's theme and visuals... Which can be introduced through customizations. It is the same as Dark Rangers, really... Just with the exception that Dark Rangers were actually requested and would require way less effort to introduce them.

The difference between Dark Rangers and this concept is that all you needed to do was add a few shadow abilities to turn a Hunter into a Dark Ranger. Crypt Lords have a completely different ability set than the Druid class and frankly every other class in the game. That means the only way you make them playable is via a new class.

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I admit I fell in love with the druid tier 15 armor set "Vestments of the Haunted Forest." So much so I'm looking for a half-baked reason to fit an idea...not far removed from a "nightmare druid."
Something Felwood related...

Sorry..off-topic..

Not really. Your post is merely another example of players who want an "evil druid" class. The Crypt Lord can easily fill the desire for such a class.

[Triceron]

They wanted a Druid of the Nightmare because before Evokers people didn't see a method to bringing the Crypt Lord in as a class. If you merge the concepts together, you create a viable class concept because Crypt Lords and Nerubians are capable of being a race/class separate from the Druid class while still being able to borrow their mechanics and give players who want a Druid of the Nightmare concept the best alternative (in some ways even better).

You're speaking out for others without knowing what they want.

I am a Druid main myself, since Vanilla. I also enjoy the Druid of the Nightmare concept. My personal preference for playable Nightmare Druid would be satisfied by giving the Druid class more cosmetics. I have no deep interest in 'playing like Renferal', because she was never a major lore character anyways. She was a single raid boss with nest gameplay, that's it. I have no interest in having a new class out of her concept than I would be asking for Druid of the Flame to be its own class. I'm completely satisfied with Flame Cat form.

Druid of the Nightmare simply doesn't work as a class concept for a host of reasons, however a Crypt Lord class concept does. Again, if you merge the concepts together, you satisfy a large swathe of players who want a similar thing (Crypt Lord, Nerubians, DotN, Mantid).

I disagree.

I don't think this works at all considering there is no lore connection between the concepts. All you're suggesting is shoehorning concepts that have no lore relation to another.

No different than if we say there can be a new Ranger class made out of Dark Ranger, Shadow Hunter and Priestess of the Moon. The concept might have merit, but it's not a solution that satisfies each player who wants a similar thing. These are very different concepts bring lumped together. You lose class identity by doing this.

You are presenting a class concept that is only half Druid of a Nightmare. As a general Druid fan, why would I want the Druid identity watered down and shared with a completely separate concept? I already feel this way about Balance spec being themed too heavily around Sun and Moon and not enough on Nature. Sun and Moon are NE and Tauren culture themes, not Druidic themes. I only tolerate it because Druid has 4 specs, and the majority of them still manage to represent a traditional Druid. Here, you suggest a Druid of the Nightmare class with only one spec that represents them. The rest muddled in Crypt Lord identity that they have no connection to. I would not be satisfied by that at all. I'd rather not see this muddled concept be playable.

Like how you never want to see Demon Hunter playable, I would say similar things about Crypt Lords. And frankly Crypt Lord does not have the merit of being in demand like DH did.


Cosmetics don't have this same baggage at all. They have zero residual effect on lore, and are not limited by having to make sense in the lore. I can customize myself as a Fel Werebear and represent playing one, without needing explanation in lore. I can transmog as the Guardian of Tirisfal and look like Medivh through upcoming Trading Post items. Would new classes be better for this? Not necessarily, since unique gameplay isn't necessary to satisfy my particular Fantasy aesthetic needs.

I can't speak for others, but I definitely agree with Vaedan and Nightshade that Druid of the Nightmare cosmetics would work fine. They just need to expand what is possible.

Open the floor gates.

[Teriz]

I disagree.

I don't think this works at all considering there is no lore connection between the concepts. All you're suggesting is shoehorning concepts that have no lore relation to another.

The concept is based on Nerubians and a possible history of their empire. Again, in my concept we have the living Nerubians being pincered by the Undead and the Old Gods. Out of desperation they seek aid from the factions, and they decide to use ancient magics to allow specialized mystics the ability to take on the forms and powers of their ancient rulers. The specialization corresponds with each form (like the druid class).

We already know that Nerubians have Spiderlords who are otherwise known as Crypt Lords in undeath. That establishes the connection to the WC3/HotS hero. That explains the tank spec.

You connect the Mantid concept since Nerubians and Mantid are both Aqir, and it stands to reason that in the distant past the two would have crossed paths. In my concept, a Mantid warlord infiltrated the Nerubian empire and conquered it for a brief time. No different than in real history where new enemies emerge with new technology and tactics that the existing empire was not prepared for. With amber and sound abilities, the Nerubians could have had a Mantid-based usurper king. That explains the RDPS spec.

Finally the Broodmother concept is merely taking the Nerubian's spider background and making a spec out of it. Nerubian units including the Crypt Lord had web abilities, and the ability to summon smaller minions and even spiders. I'm simply utilizing Renferals' abilities in my concept, because if Blizzard made a spec based on spider abilities, they'd probably use that example. Frankly a Nerubian spider queen makes more sense than Nerubians having a beetle king. That explains the Healing/Support spec.

Where's the disconnection?

No different than if we say there can be a new Ranger class made out of Dark Ranger, Shadow Hunter and Priestess of the Moon. The concept might have merit, but it's not a solution that satisfies each player who wants a similar thing. These are very different concepts bring lumped together. You lose class identity by doing this.

Except there's already a class that merges those concepts together; The Hunter class.

You are presenting a class concept that is only half Druid of a Nightmare. As a general Druid fan, why would I want the Druid identity watered down and shared with a completely separate concept? I already feel this way about Balance spec being themed too heavily around Sun and Moon and not enough on Nature. Sun and Moon are NE and Tauren culture themes, not Druidic themes. I only tolerate it because Druid has 4 specs, and the majority of them still manage to represent a traditional Druid. Here, you suggest a Druid of the Nightmare class with only one spec that represents them. The rest muddled in Crypt Lord identity that they have no connection to. I would not be satisfied by that at all. I'd rather not see this muddled concept be playable.

Except I'm not suggesting a Druid of the Nightmare class. I'm suggesting a Crypt Lord class that utilizes some aspects from a NPC boss that utilized a similar theme to Nerubians and the Crypt Lord.

Like how you never want to see Demon Hunter playable, I would say similar things about Crypt Lords. And frankly Crypt Lord does not have the merit of being in demand like DH did.

Again, give it time. This is the first time such a class has been brought forward, and again it simply wasn't thought possible until we got Dracthyr Evokers.

Cosmetics don't have this same baggage at all.

Again, where's the impetus to create a spec's worth of glyphs just to create a spider druid? It simply isn't there. However, there is a desire for a Azjol Nerub/Spider Kingdom expansion, and with that expansion, an impetus to create a race/class that fits its theme. This concept fits that theme perfectly.

[Vaedan]

Again, I'm talking about Elerethe Renferal and her spider form and abilities. You can easily emulate them with a Crypt Lord class. The Druid class cannot emulate them at all.

First, Elerethe is just one representation of what can Nightmare do to druids. In Val'sharah, we've seen plenthora of corrupted druids and keepers of the grove, which used corrupted druid spells. The concept even has DRUID word in that name... how would you like to be a druid, without being a druid? It's nonsense.

As for Elerethe, all what would be needed is to give druid cat form similar appearance. Stealthing, ambushing and tearing apart your foe is what you expect from a predatory spider. Add a glyph to make Entangling Roots have web visuals... you are done, without a new class which would dilute a druid class fantasy and mechanics.

Well you would, since Blizzard isn't going to make another Druid spec for Nightmare druids, and they're not going to reskin an entire specialization. The only real option is to make a new class that somewhat utilizes the concept, like a Crypt Lord class. Once again, the impetus for Blizzard to create a Crypt Lord class is an Azjol Nerub expansion. There is no such impetus to create a spec worth of customization glyphs for a single class.

The difference between Dark Rangers and this concept is that all you needed to do was add a few shadow abilities to turn a Hunter into a Dark Ranger. Crypt Lords have a completely different ability set than the Druid class and frankly every other class in the game. That means the only way you make them playable is via a new class.

Not really. We've been fed multiple variouos DR abilities during WoW life span... way more than we did from Crypt Lords or Nerubians, because the former uses the same skill set in its every incarnation and the latter just use webs and Death magic.

I can counter argument that all you need for Crypt lord to be playable is just throw a bunch of customization to a druid. That's precisely what they did with Dark Rangers. The impetus to create such customizations would be either unlocking druids to new races to explain what they draw they power from (plus druids always have racial themed forms). and also the fact that Ion recently said that the more customization you as a player has for your character, the better.

Also, warlocks got a reskin of whole spec with green fire. Not much, but as you can see, they did bother in past to make a whole questline, exclusive for one class, to alternate a color of your fire spells on one spec.

Not really. Your post is merely another example of players who want an "evil druid" class. The Crypt Lord can easily fill the desire for such a class.

By giving Crypt Lords an ability to shapeshift into dread treants? Really?

[Shadowferal]

I am a Druid main myself, since Vanilla. I also enjoy the Druid of the Nightmare concept. My personal preference for playable Nightmare Druid would be satisfied by giving the Druid class more cosmetics.

Ah...a fellow druid.

You are presenting a class concept that is only half Druid of a Nightmare. As a general Druid fan, why would I want the Druid identity watered down and shared with a completely separate concept? I already feel this way about Balance spec being themed too heavily around Sun and Moon and not enough on Nature. Sun and Moon are NE and Tauren culture themes, not Druidic themes. I only tolerate it because Druid has 4 specs, and the majority of them still manage to represent a traditional Druid. Here, you suggest a Druid of the Nightmare class with only one spec that represents them.

I've been toying with ideas for druid specs (and other class specs). "Druid of the Emerald Nightmare" would be one. The obvious half to the "Druid of the Emerald Dream." It's the "nature" part that I'm feeling my way through. Insects, arachnids, bugs in general are likely part of it. (Which is why I'm keeping tabs in this thread)

[Teriz]

First, Elerethe is just one representation of what can Nightmare do to druids. In Val'sharah, we've seen plenthora of corrupted druids and keepers of the grove, which used corrupted druid spells. The concept even has DRUID word in that name... how would you like to be a druid, without being a druid? It's nonsense.

Which is completely irrelelvant to what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about Druid types that the Druid class cannot represent in their class, like the Druids who could turn into spiders, scorpions, and other creatures. Obviously the nightmare druids with standard bear, cat, and moonkin abilities are not what I'm talking about.

As for Elerethe, all what would be needed is to give druid cat form similar appearance. Stealthing, ambushing and tearing apart your foe is what you expect from a predatory spider. Add a glyph to make Entangling Roots have web visuals... you are done, without a new class which would dilute a druid class fantasy and mechanics.

If you believe that tepid effort would satisfy Druid fans, that's on you. Again, the reason I'm suggesting this class concept is because of a likely Nerubian-based expansion.

Not really. We've been fed multiple variouos DR abilities during WoW life span... way more than we did from Crypt Lords or Nerubians, because the former uses the same skill set in its every incarnation and the latter just use webs and Death magic.

I can counter argument that all you need for Crypt lord to be playable is just throw a bunch of customization to a druid. That's precisely what they did with Dark Rangers. The impetus to create such customizations would be either unlocking druids to new races to explain what they draw they power from (plus druids always have racial themed forms). and also the fact that Ion recently said that the more customization you as a player has for your character, the better.

Uh no, they just gave Hunters a Dark Ranger skin. Hunters already had multiple abilities that could work with the DR concept. Druids have zero abilities that work with a Crypt Lord concept. The other issue is why would Blizzard connect Crypt Lords to Druids in the first place? No existing race is connected to nerubians to justify them getting Crypt Lord forms, and the Druid class can't house the abilities.

There's also no history of Blizzard throwing a bunch of customizations at a class in order to give it psuedo abilities to mimic a different class or concept. It wasn't done for Druids of the flame in Cataclysm. It wasn't done for Nightmare Druids in Legion. It wasn't done for Dark Shaman in MoP, etc. The precedence and impetus is simply not there to do something like that, and it seems like a hail Mary suggestion by a forum poster instead of a serious consideration.

A race/class combination in order to bring in a "monster" race and class? Dracthyr Evoker says hello. That can easily be repeated for Nerubian Crypt Lords.

[Vaedan]

Which is completely irrelelvant to what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about Druid types that the Druid class cannot represent in their class, like the Druids who could turn into spiders, scorpions, and other creatures. Obviously the nightmare druids with standard bear, cat, and moonkin abilities are not what I'm talking about.

It is very relevant to what a druid as archetype is.

Explain please why druid class are not fitting to represent these parts of druid archetype, even though that the druid you can play already use insect spell and can transform into insects? It is already there, waiting to be expanded.

If you believe that tepid effort would satisfy Druid fans, that's on you. Again, the reason I'm suggesting this class concept is because of a likely Nerubian-based expansion.

Yes, I think most people would be just fine and would be happy that they get cool new form to play with.
Is nerubian based expansion really likely, though? I don't really think so. Nerubian story is basicaly done. They are slave race of Old Gods, who got massacred by Scoured, risen into undeath. Their kingdom is in ruins. At best, I can think of a patch zone. I don't even think we will get underground based expansion, really. Few zones, perhaps.
When they do expansions, they usually make sure that new content is diverse and not monothematic. That is why we did not get Argus expansion, or under-sea expansion, or Emerald Dream expansion or why it is not very likely to get dedicated underground expansion. Zaralek Cavern feels like a pinacle of what they can do with underground design.

Uh no, they just gave Hunters a Dark Ranger skin. Hunters already had multiple abilities that could work with the DR concept. Druids have zero abilities that work with a Crypt Lord concept. The other issue is why would Blizzard connect Crypt Lords to Druids in the first place? No existing race is connected to nerubians to justify them getting Crypt Lord forms, and the Druid class can't house the abilities.

What Dark Ranger abilities Hunter had? Black Arrow, which got removed, and now Weiling Arrow as a single DR ability? Not really different to Adaptive Swarm on druids...
The issue is just in your head. Elerethe was not connected to Nerubians either, yet Nightmare warped her powers to get such form. Now, if we see druid class expanded on new races, which now seems most likely scenario, races like undeads and void elves could get that. I am now obviously speculating, but it still feels more possible than a Crypt Lord class, which feels like not really interesting mixture of DK and druid.

There's also no history of Blizzard throwing a bunch of customizations at a class in order to give it psuedo abilities to mimic a different class or concept. It wasn't done for Druids of the flame in Cataclysm. It wasn't done for Nightmare Druids in Legion. It wasn't done for Dark Shaman in MoP, etc. The precedence and impetus is simply not there to do something like that, and it seems like a hail Mary suggestion by a forum poster instead of a serious consideration.

Druids of the flame does not even need much more. They have flame cat, their signature ability. It is fine and people like it. Also if you wish, you have solar spells and glyph to make your Starfall look fiery. In Legion, balance druids could change a their appearance to look like they are in solar form... all of that look fiery enough and I briefly used that for Druid of the Flame balance druid.

Speaking of moonkins, you also have Glyph of Stars, which allows you to be in a star form, instead of moonkin. That is another example of how form customizations could look like to provide more options. You still did not provide a single valid argument why should insect forms be exception.

A race/class combination in order to bring in a "monster" race and class? Dracthyr Evoker says hello. That can easily be repeated for Nerubian Crypt Lords.

Yes, and you can still go through forum threads with people complaining about it. It was not well received, people don't like this kind of limitation and Ion said several times that dracthyr will get more classes once DF is over. I am not really sure if they are going to continue with this trend, when majority of their playerbase clearly dislike it.

[THC BANDIT]

Teriz do you have either narcissistic personality disorder or ASPD? GENUINE BASED QUESTION

[Ielenia]

That has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is Shapeshifting.

But it has everything to do with your argument, which is "optimal damage".

I've viewed multiple DH rotations and they all include Metamorphosis, and pretty much every guide says use meta on cooldown.

That's not the point, though. My point is that you don't need "metamorphosis" do use any of the DH's abilities. You can still Chaos Strike, Blade Dance, Fel Rush, Vengeful Retreat, Eye Beam, etc, without ever using the Meta ability. But if you don't use the Guardian form, your druid isn't going to use Maul, Mangle, Frenzied Regeneration, Ironfur, etc.

And again we're talking about two completely different things....

Where your arguments are the same, yet diametrically different positions. Which is the problem. The double-standard.

If you can auto attack and use offensive abilities, you're fighting in GW form.

Again, the double-standard. You first say that just "looking" like a crypt lord is not enough because you don't have nerubian abilities, but now just being in Ghost Wolf form and auto-attacking "counts as fighting" therefore they're using the same shapeshifting theme of the druid.

Okay, enjoy your wait for that new Forsaken druid form then.

I'm not waiting for it, because I'm not here demanding it. Besides, I think you need the chair more than I do since you're still waiting for your Tinker.

Why would you address the race/combo exclusively when its validity rests completely on a similarly themed expansion?

Because I'm not interested in talking about how it fits into the world of Azeroth. I'm not here discussing the race's lore, if you didn't notice.

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Druid of the Nightmare simply doesn't work as a class concept for a host of reasons, however a Crypt Lord class concept does. Again, if you merge the concepts together, you satisfy a large swathe of players who want a similar thing (Crypt Lord, Nerubians, DotN, Mantid).

This is so dishonestly hypocritical it hurts. I recall our bard concept conversations where you'd constantly harp on "there's no lore connecting these together" when I gave examples of bard characters such as Lorewalker Cho, Hearthsinger Forresten and Russell Brower.

So connecting concepts that have nothing to do with each other is fine when it's for your own ideas, but merging similar concepts for a class you don't like are forbidden?

[Teriz]

It is very relevant to what a druid as archetype is.

Explain please why druid class are not fitting to represent these parts of druid archetype, even though that the druid you can play already use insect spell and can transform into insects? It is already there, waiting to be expanded.

Because one spell and a Butterfly flight form isn't sufficient to handle this class concept, and the Druid class will never get the necessary abilities to make that concept viable.

That said, what happens to the Druid class is irrelelvant. What is relevant is the viability of a Crypt Lord class.

Yes, I think most people would be just fine and would be happy that they get cool new form to play with.
Is nerubian based expansion really likely, though? I don't really think so. Nerubian story is basicaly done. They are slave race of Old Gods, who got massacred by Scoured, risen into undeath. Their kingdom is in ruins. At best, I can think of a patch zone. I don't even think we will get underground based expansion, really. Few zones, perhaps.
When they do expansions, they usually make sure that new content is diverse and not monothematic. That is why we did not get Argus expansion, or under-sea expansion, or Emerald Dream expansion or why it is not very likely to get dedicated underground expansion. Zaralek Cavern feels like a pinacle of what they can do with underground design.

Yeah, you might want to brush up on your lore. The Nerubians we encountered in WotLK were actively at war with the Scourge AND the Old Gods, so they're definitely not a slave race. Also there are also multiple pockets of living Nerubians who are fighting off both enemies, we encountered one such pocket in WotLK. Finally, Blizzard never got to finish Azjol Nerub like they intended it to be. There's tons of unused concepts and art assets on the cutting room floor that can be utilized for a future expansion. Blizzard themselves stated that Zaralek Caverns could be a testing ground for future underground content, and that content could be Azjol Nerub.

What Dark Ranger abilities Hunter had? Black Arrow, which got removed, and now Weiling Arrow as a single DR ability? Not really different to Adaptive Swarm on druids...

Kill Shot, Serpent Sting, Aimed Shot, Multi-shot, etc. DRs were just undead Hunters. Heck, Nathanos, a Dark Ranger, was a hunter trainer.

The issue is just in your head. Elerethe was not connected to Nerubians either, yet Nightmare warped her powers to get such form. Now, if we see druid class expanded on new races, which now seems most likely scenario, races like undeads and void elves could get that. I am now obviously speculating, but it still feels more possible than a Crypt Lord class, which feels like not really interesting mixture of DK and druid.

I never said she was connected to Nerubians.

As for Forsaken or Void elf Druids, they're getting Bear, Cat, and Moonkin forms. The chances of them getting a Crypt Lord form is fairly close to zero.

Druids of the flame does not even need much more. They have flame cat, their signature ability. It is fine and people like it. Also if you wish, you have solar spells and glyph to make your Starfall look fiery. In Legion, balance druids could change a their appearance to look like they are in solar form... all of that look fiery enough and I briefly used that for Druid of the Flame balance druid.

Speaking of moonkins, you also have Glyph of Stars, which allows you to be in a star form, instead of moonkin. That is another example of how form customizations could look like to provide more options. You still did not provide a single valid argument why should insect forms be exception.

That's great. Where's the bevy of glyphs that change the nature of a spell?

Yes, and you can still go through forum threads with people complaining about it. It was not well received, people don't like this kind of limitation and Ion said several times that dracthyr will get more classes once DF is over. I am not really sure if they are going to continue with this trend, when majority of their playerbase clearly dislike it.

Yeah, Ion didn't say that, he hinted at it, but we have no idea if its going to happen or not. Also we have no poll of the playerbase to say whether they like race/class combos, or dislike it. Given Ion's comments about Dracthyr transmog, I'm leaning on the highly unlikely side of the fence. I'll also argue that by next expansion, no one will be bringing up the notion of Dracthyr being other classes, because we'll have two new races that will get the vocal minority's attention.

Which leads us back to Nerubians; Unlike a spec or class getting a huge ton of glyphs to turn it into something else, we have precedent for a race/class combination. That's what makes it the more likely scenario.

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This is so dishonestly hypocritical it hurts. I recall our bard concept conversations where you'd constantly harp on "there's no lore connecting these together" when I gave examples of bard characters such as Lorewalker Cho, Hearthsinger Forresten and Russell Brower.

So connecting concepts that have nothing to do with each other is fine when it's for your own ideas, but merging similar concepts for a class you don't like are forbidden?

Uh, the concepts are all beetles with varying body types. How would they not be connected?

[Ielenia]

Uh, the concepts are all beetles with varying body types. How would they not be connected?

This "connection" is a hundred times flimsier than the connection between three bard-type characters and even that wasn't enough for you. That's the double-standard.

[Nightshade711]

Yeah, Ion didn't say that, he hinted at it, but we have no idea if its going to happen or not. Also we have no poll of the playerbase to say whether they like race/class combos, or dislike it. Given Ion's comments about Dracthyr transmog, I'm leaning on the highly unlikely side of the fence. I'll also argue that by next expansion, no one will be bringing up the notion of Dracthyr being other classes, because we'll have two new races that will get the vocal minority's attention.

I think saying “There’s no reason a Dracthyr couldn’t learn to bladestorm or throw frostbolts” in a variety of different ways since DF announcement is far more than a “hint at it”

That and the fact they’ve been continually adding other classes animations to Dracthyr since launch.
It’s almost guaranteed they’ll be other classes after DF.

[Teriz]

This "connection" is a hundred times flimsier than the connection between three bard-type characters and even that wasn't enough for you. That's the double-standard.

Lorewalker Cho has zero connection with Hearthsinger Forrensten, a ghost in Stratholm.

On the other hand, there’s no reason a Nerubian Spiderlord/Crypt Lord couldn’t look like this;



And have spider-like abilities.

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It’s almost guaranteed they’ll be other classes after DF.

We’ll see soon enough.

[Ielenia]

Lorewalker Cho has zero connection with Hearthsinger Forrensten, a ghost in Stratholm.

On the other hand, there’s no reason a Nerubian Spiderlord/Crypt Lord couldn’t look like this;

https://i.ibb.co/bXtt66y/20b300dd261...33c4548102.jpg

And have spider-like abilities.

"There is absolutely zero connections between those examples because I say there's zero connection between those examples despite actually existing connection between those examples such as all of them being bards and two of them actually participating in combat. But MY examples are totally connected to each other because... because... um... they look like insects! Yeah, they look kinda insectoid-ish! See? They'd be Siamese twins if they were any more closely related!!"

That is your double-standard argumentation here.

[Teriz]

"There is absolutely zero connections between those examples because I say there's zero connection between those examples despite actually existing connection between those examples such as all of them being bards and two of them actually participating in combat. But MY examples are totally connected to each other because... because... um... they look like insects! Yeah, they look kinda insectoid-ish! See? They'd be Siamese twins if they were any more closely related!!"

That is your double-standard argumentation here.

Like I said, there's zero reason a Nerubian spiderlord couldn't resemble that picture, and there's zero reason a Nerubian leader wouldn't have spider-like abilities. It's totally within the thematics of the race, the potential expansion concept, the hero character, and the potential class.

Lorewalker Cho having any connection with a literal ghost in stratholme from which to build a class from? Laughable.

[Ielenia]

Like I said, there's zero reason a Nerubian spiderlord couldn't resemble that picture, and there's zero reason a Nerubian leader wouldn't have spider-like abilities. It's totally within the thematics of the race, the potential expansion concept, the hero character, and the potential class.

And therein lies the double-standard. It fits your narrative, therefore it's just 140% "Blizzard approved" a-ok to change everything as many times and as much as needed to make them fit. But the moment something similar is offered for something else that doesn't already have your own personal stamp of approval, then you'll argue until you're blue in the face that it's not possible, arguing against any and all evidence to the contrary.

Lorewalker Cho having any connection with a literal ghost in stratholme from which to build a class from? Laughable.

The fact you keep referring to it as a "ghost" as if that somehow invalidates the existence of the character in the lore is what really is "laughable" here.

[Triceron]

The concept is based on Nerubians and a possible history of their empire. Again, in my concept we have the living Nerubians being pincered by the Undead and the Old Gods. Out of desperation they seek aid from the factions, and they decide to use ancient magics to allow specialized mystics the ability to take on the forms and powers of their ancient rulers. The specialization corresponds with each form (like the druid class).

We already know that Nerubians have Spiderlords who are otherwise known as Crypt Lords in undeath. That establishes the connection to the WC3/HotS hero. That explains the tank spec.

You connect the Mantid concept since Nerubians and Mantid are both Aqir, and it stands to reason that in the distant past the two would have crossed paths. In my concept, a Mantid warlord infiltrated the Nerubian empire and conquered it for a brief time. No different than in real history where new enemies emerge with new technology and tactics that the existing empire was not prepared for. With amber and sound abilities, the Nerubians could have had a Mantid-based usurper king. That explains the RDPS spec.

Finally the Broodmother concept is merely taking the Nerubian's spider background and making a spec out of it. Nerubian units including the Crypt Lord had web abilities, and the ability to summon smaller minions and even spiders. I'm simply utilizing Renferals' abilities in my concept, because if Blizzard made a spec based on spider abilities, they'd probably use that example. Frankly a Nerubian spider queen makes more sense than Nerubians having a beetle king. That explains the Healing/Support spec.

Where's the disconnection?

Ah, so this has zero connection to Druid of the Nightmare at all then. Okay, makes more sense.

So again, my previous point stands. THere is no desire for this class concept, which you've newly created. If it is SOL, then there is no significant loss anywhere. This is clearly not a Druid of the Nightmare, and we would not be missing out on Druid of the Nightmare concepts if this specific Nerubian/Mantid-centric concept was passed up.

Except there's already a class that merges those concepts together; The Hunter class.

If one were to adopt the Elf customizations as representation of the concept, then yes. If not, then Wailing isn't going to make a Dark Ranger out of a Tauren Hunter.

There is nuance in what and how it can be represented.

Again, give it time. This is the first time such a class has been brought forward, and again it simply wasn't thought possible until we got Dracthyr Evokers.

So what is the point in asking what the outcome is of a first-such-class being SOL? Nothing is lost then, because it's a new concept no one had been asking for. That is different from Evokers, where we have very clear demand for a Dragon-based class for practically a decade.

If you want me to give you an answer that changes with time, then yes, give it time. Right now? I don't think anyone cares if it never happens.

Again, where's the impetus to create a spec's worth of glyphs just to create a spider druid? It simply isn't there. However, there is a desire for a Azjol Nerub/Spider Kingdom expansion, and with that expansion, an impetus to create a race/class that fits its theme. This concept fits that theme perfectly.

Why is a spec worth of glyphs needed?


A Druid having a Crypt Lord form cosmetic, for absolutely no lore reason and without any gameplay representation, would still satisfy this. No new abilities, no new glyphs, just the form and attack animations. Just like how they gave us Flame Cat form, and literally no one demands a Druid of the Flame class or its gameplay beyond this.

It would go a very long way in having a playable Crypt Lord represented, and such a form can be given further connections through the addition of new races in the future; one possible one being Nerubian Druids.

[Teriz]

And therein lies the double-standard. It fits your narrative, therefore it's just 140% "Blizzard approved" a-ok to change everything as many times and as much as needed to make them fit. But the moment something similar is offered for something else that doesn't already have your own personal stamp of approval, then you'll argue until you're blue in the face that it's not possible, arguing against any and all evidence to the contrary.
.

Except your example is not similar. It's not even in the same ballpark.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, so this has zero connection to Druid of the Nightmare at all then. Okay, makes more sense.

So again, my previous point stands. THere is no desire for this class concept, which you've newly created. If it is SOL, then there is no significant loss anywhere. This is clearly not a Druid of the Nightmare, and we would not be missing out on Druid of the Nightmare concepts if this specific Nerubian/Mantid-centric concept was passed up.

Well you would be missing out, because no other class can emulate the Druid of the Nightmare like Elereth Renferal.

A Druid having a Crypt Lord form cosmetic, for absolutely no lore reason, would already satisfy this. No new abilities, no new glyphs, just the form and attack animations.

Yeah, I completely disagree. It would be viewed as a lazy cop-out on Blizzard's part, and it wouldn't make sense.

ALso;

https://twitter.com/Manaborne/status...QiQIP2uXQ&s=19

That's interesting, and its found in Zaralek Caverns.

[Triceron]

Well you would be missing out, because no other class can emulate the Druid of the Nightmare like Elereth Renferal.

I think I can live

Yeah, I completely disagree. It would be viewed as a lazy cop-out on Blizzard's part, and it wouldn't make sense.

Considering you already feel that way about Demon Hunters only having 2 specs, there's no real appeal to what you think makes sense. I'm not 100% satisfied with DH either, but I'm happy for everyone who enjoys the class. I personally think it works even as a 2 spec class, I just don't think it was worth removing Meta on Warlocks for since they mechanically worked very differently. My 2 cents.

[Teriz]

I think I can live



Considering you already feel that way about Demon Hunters only having 2 specs, there's no real appeal to what you think makes sense. I'm not 100% satisfied with DH either, but I'm happy for everyone who enjoys the class. I personally think it works even as a 2 spec class, I just don't think it was worth removing Meta on Warlocks for since they mechanically worked very differently. My 2 cents.

Well Blizzard just dropped a Nerubian clue in Zaralek Caverns about a Queen Moaj’arak. Could be something, could be nothing. We’ll see.