Page 18 of 19 FirstFirst ...
8
16
17
18
19
LastLast
  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    11.0 - Reshaping of the World

    A world revamp could revitalize a fundamental aspect of the game, Azeroth itself. It is a chance for Blizzard to increase the size of the playable game for endgame characters manifold, and to future proof it for many years to come. However, a world revamp also has its drawbacks. It is a costly endeavour, and hard to get right. Opinions differ on whether the story should move forward to new places, or embrace the old.

    This thread is an attempt to, as objectively as possible, look at the clues and speculate about the future potential of a world revamp.

    Part 1 - Interesting facts and potential clues that might suggest a World Revamp

    • The Updated Battlegrounds of WSG and AB - During Battle for Azeroth, two original battlegrounds were remade with completely updated art assets: Warsong Gulch and Arathi Basin. These assets weren't used anywhere else to my knowledge. It seems strange to go through all of that effort for such a small part of the game. That said, the expansion did feature warfronts. It is possible that a planned warfront taking place right on the border between The Barrens and Ashenvale forest got scrapped. Using the assets in Warsong Gulch would make sense in that scenario. The Arathi Highlands did recieve a warfront in the expansion, and the same assets were used in an updated Arathi Basin battleground.
    • WoW Classic: The Ongoing Preservation of Old Expansions - Vanilla, The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and by the sound of things also Cataclysm will soon all be preserved in the form of WoW Classic. Who knows, Blizzard might continue with Mists of Pandaria, Warlords of Draenor, and so on. What's more, the old expansion questing experiences are now also accessible in the form of Chromie Time. Whenever a player feels like it, he or she can go back and play the game as it was at a particular time. This might be a case of preserving the game in its different states, catering to players' wishes, or even laying the bedrock for a fundamental change to the retail game. Whatever the reason, much of the game has been preserved one way or another, so Blizzard could do a world revamp without anybody really complaining about lost content.
    • The Upcoming Shortage of Game Real Estate - After nearly two decades, WoW has finally reached a point where almost all of the old lore has been explored once or twice, and the landmasses known to us are placed on the in-game map. There are a few exceptions, and Blizzard could obviously create more landmasses. But there is less emotional investment with brand new lore, which might impact sales. It might be more economical at this point to look at what they already have and consider how they can re-use it. Both in terms of development costs and sale figures.
    • The Slow Overhaul of Old Assets - Over the last few expansions, Blizzard has taken a look at and redone a vast amount of old assets. From critter models and monsters to buildings, flora and fauna. While it could just be a case of needing to populate their new expansions with fresh models that feel like they belong on Azeroth, it's certainly interesting. Some of the updated assets are distinctly "Vanilla", as in belonging primarily to The Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.
    • The World is Waking Up - As the Dragonflight announcement news made clear, the world is "waking up" with the next expansion. This is seen on the Dragon Isles as well. The elements are raging, and the dragons return home. In the cinematic, we see the isles return to their former glory as the sun breaks through the clouds, water start flowing in the aqueducts and nature seemingly springs to life again.
    • The Sword in the Stone - Ion has been very coy about the Sword of Sargeras, sticking out of the Wound in Silithus. In fact, it seems to be a bit of a running joke among developers at this point. When asked about it, Steve Danuser has twice let us know that the sword will have a role to play in the future. While it's certainly fully possible that the sword could simply remain in the planet forever as a testament of what once transpired there, it is hard to escape the feeling that having a giant sword the size of a mountain stuck in Azeroth kind of ruins the horizon just a smidge. If it were to be removed, it would logically fit to do so when the world is healing, being restored, and getting rid of all its ugly scars.
    • The Capital Cities are Getting Updates - With patch 9.2.5, we're seeing lots of development on the story for the Night Elves and Forsaken. Both are missing a home since Battle for Azeroth, and both are seemingly getting one back soon. For the Night Elves, this could happen through the seed gifted to Tyrande by the Winter Queen, which might grow into a world tree similar to Teldrassil or perhaps more like one of the trees found in Ardenweald. For the Forsaken, it seems likely that The Undercity will be restored. Other capital cities have seen some changes as well. Increased weather effects in Stormwind and Orgrimmar, for example. In patch 9.2.5, it is suggested that the Forsaken might pull out of Gilneas for good, which leaves another candidate for an update.
    • The 20th Anniversary of WoW - In 2024, WoW turns 20. What's more, the next expansion after Dragonflight will be the game's 10th expansion. It could be a smart business move to not only celebrate the game in a major way, but also refresh it for the next 20 years and 10 expansions. A good way to do this might be to revamp the original landmasses, the core of Azeroth. Assuming Dragonflight comes out in Q4 2022 or Q1 2023, it will probably be time to announce 11.0 in Q4 of 2023 or Q1 2024. Timeline-wise, this seems like a good match.
    • The Trilogy of Trilogies - If you look at the history of the game and its expansion packs, you are able to notice a bunch of possible patterns in the way new content is designed. One such theory says that TBC, WotLK and Cata were the original three expansions. Then newer ones simply continued their stories. So for TBC, it started the Burning Legion arc, which continued with WoD and concluded in Legion. WotLK on the other hand started the "Death" arc, which arguably continued with Sylvanas' harvest of souls during BfA, and concluded in Shadowlands. That leaves us Cata and MoP. Dragonflight certainly seems to encapsulate a lot of what made these two expansions special to many players. A continent veiled in mist, lots of dragons, raging elementals, and so on. What it misses is a world revamp. So the question now remains, will 11.0 continue to build on the legacy of Cata and conclude its "trilogy"?
    • The Full Portal Room - In the Stormwind/Orgrimmar Portal Rooms, there is currently one free slot (as of July 2022). It is likely that a portal to Valdrakken will occupy this slot during Dragonflight. So that leaves us with zero additional empty slots for the expansion after that. Now, of course Blizzard would rebuild the Portal Rooms or reshuffle a few old portals. But these locations were built fairly recently, so you'd imagine they knew going into it how many portals they would need in the years ahead. So why isn't there a need for a new portal in 11.0? Could it be because Azeroth will be revamped, and our traditional capital cities will serve as player hubs again?
    • Dragonflight's Case for World Content - One striking thing about Dragonflight is the focus on world content. It remains to be seen if it's evergreen or if it'll run its course once we've finished our Renowns and so on, but as of about a week into the expansion it seems clear a lot of players love the chance to simply explore and have fun - and they're making their voices heard on social media. Blizzard likes to use content as a testbed for further content down the line, so it's not hard to imagine this expansion as a test for what could be a more permanent living world in 11.0.
    • Eastern Kingdoms Receiving Updates - Shortly after Dragonflight's launch, a Senior Game Designer working on WoW made a couple of cryptic tweets, in which she suggested work was being done on the old Eastern Kingdoms map in their tools. She clarified she makes quests, not zones. But it's still interesting. Could this just be for a couple of quests set in EK during Dragonflight, or is there more to it?

    Part 2 - The case against a World Revamp

    Let's not beat around the bush. There are lots of reasons to dismiss all of the above. A world revamp is an expensive, risky move. While it doesn't have to play out like it did in Cata, I'm sure a lot of people (including some working for Blizzard) blame the prior revamp for WoW's declining subscriber numbers in 2010.

    Developers have even said that changes to the world are likely to be made in small chunks, when the time is right. Perfect examples of this are to be found in Arathi Highlands, Darkshore, and Silithus. While at this pace it would take many decades to revamp the entire world, it's still plausible that this is the route Blizzard is taking.

    Blizzard's philosophy when making new expansions for the past 15 years or so seems to have been that new is better. Old continents have been left behind in favour of more modern experiences, that are probably more easy to work with for new game systems (and more fun to work on for new developers).

    So it's absolutely possible that while Blizzard might hear and acknowledge the wishes of players wanting a revamp, it's simply not something that's on their radar.

    Part 3 - What would a revamp look like?

    But let's assume for a moment that a World Revamp is coming. What, then, would it look like? I'd like to just convey one possible scenario for how this could work, just to show that it's possible.

    • They decide to revamp only Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms, because those are the most important continents.
    • Zones are combined into mega zones to cut down on workload and to create a more cohesive experience. For example, Ashenvale, Darkshore, Felwood, Hyjal, Moonglade, Winterspring and Azshara turn into Hyjal with Nordrassil as the Night Elven capital city. Across the sea, Quel'danas, Eversong Woods, and Ghostlands turn into Quel'thalas with Silvermoon as the Blood Elven capital city. The old zones will still be represented as subzones akin to Krasarang Wilds in the Valley of the Four Winds. So all flavour is preserved, but borders between zones can look more natural.
    • There are no longer thousands of quests and individual storylines. Instead, once you leave Exile's Reach or your race's starter area, you start a faction-specific story campaign that takes you across Azeroth. If you're Horde you primarily explore Kalimdor with occasional forays into the Eastern Kingdoms, and vice versa if you're Alliance. A bit similar to how it worked in Battle for Azeroth. What this does is it lets Blizzard replace the immense amount of old story and quest content with two new campaigns. In addition to this, there is definitely room for race- and class-specific campaigns. These could be lesser campaigns that play out alongside the main thing. There could also be a more meta-campaign for Azeroth available to both factions, but this campaign would probably be slower-paced and lurk a bit in the background until it's time to shine. Heck, it might not be available until you reach max level.
    • While the old instances are preserved with Timewalking and Classic, they don't really have to be included in the revamp. Dungeons and raids of the past could inspire new creations, but Azeroth has moved on and the revamp would just bring new instances.
    • The main source of content of each mega zones would be dynamic and evergreen activities such as world quests, events, temporary story quests, bounties, skirmishes, world bosses, and more. Once you complete the main campaign, you unlock dynamic world content across both continents.

    It remains to be seen what Blizzard ends up doing, but it's fun to speculate so let's keep the discussion going for 11.0!

    Edits

    30 July, 2022 - added a bit about the Portal Rooms in Stormwind and Orgrimmar.
    There is no objective analysis here. When you use wording such as "It COULD be good, IF", it becomes wishful thinking. And with all wishful thinking - it never aligns with the direction of a product. That is why it's not here after 20years - like many other features.

    The 2023 way of speculation is to use Google and look up quartly reports, stocks and interviews. Also have some basic insight of how a business runs. Not by playing the game.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2023-05-07 at 11:40 AM.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    Just imagine...
    They're not going to update every model but, you do know like, half of those are updated models, right? Makrura were updated in Legion from their older Vanilla selves and even got a new variant in BfA, the Treant there is the updated Dragonflight version, and we get updated animals all the time without a world revamp

    There is also absolutely no way they're going to be changing the phoenix mount though. Simply touching a mount that rare would have people being lived
    Last edited by Mecheon; 2023-06-04 at 06:52 AM.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    The treants could be more diversified with these new trees, the makrura as I said with more evolved castes, the giraffes could use the new longdog model introduced in Zaralek, the cows could use the bovine skeleton introduced in SL etc.
    they're not just new trees, tirnenn are unique denizens of SL. endemics. same for that particular specie of DI wolves, Zaralek slendergiraffes and makrura/scythids. all of them represent the land they are in, how life adaped to the natural circumstances surrounding it. the last example is the most striking - scythids are the old god spawn, not unlike nerubians or mantids; makrura are most likely descended from a lobster wild god, like Agamaggan. mixing them up into the same race erases that distinction just because they look similar to the designer who will work on it.

    and we don't even need to dream - mobs with updated models already outnumber mobs with classic ones in Elwynn or Durotar. this will definitely happen, but they need to be careful with their choice of creatures to add. i don't think they will - they wanted lava birds in Aberrus and just put Rukhmar there. shame.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    I never said they had to be introduced randomly without any connection.
    why would giraffes from the Barrens use the same skeleton as their Zaralek cousins? why would cows use the same skeleton as SL bulls/yaks? these are the two examples you've given, and i disagree that they should share skeletons or share natural habitats in-game. just as horses and zebras are similar but distinct, cows and yak derivatives are different and need to remain recognizable as such.

    regarding scythids "castes" and tirnenn, we've had that diversification with felstalkers, which were introduced in 6.2 and reused the dire wolf skeleton, instead of their classic felhunter one. they later even made a post that it's a separate, but related species. same thing with murloc brutes, like the third boss in the Tomb of Sargeras.
    imo, that dilutes the imagery of a creature even if technically justified by magic or breeding.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    Ok you still have not understood anything, it does not matter. You obviously have no knowledge of game design.
    no, "cows could use the bovine skeleton introduced in SL" isn't that difficult to interpret. they shouldn't. uprezing them could be good; replacing their skeleton with tauralus' isn't.
    the thing is, they will probably put tirnenn recolors in 10.2, just as they put Rukhmar in Aberrus for whatever reason. i still think it's a bad idea.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    Beyond just putting some models in HD, imagine the makrura with this new skeleton introduced to Nazjatar. Just like the naga, they could have different types of makrura.
    That's what makrura look like, though The other stuff doesn't match with how they've been presented since WC3

    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    Open your mind, and allow yourself to dream...
    My Warcraft-related hopes and dreams tend to start and end with 'playable vrykul and ogres, not matter the cost (mok'nathal and forest trolls can come along too)'

    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    The treants could be more diversified with these new trees, the makrura as I said with more evolved castes, the giraffes could use the new longdog model introduced in Zaralek, the cows could use the bovine skeleton introduced in SL etc.

    I didn't think I had to explain it.
    These don't necessarily need world revamps, though. We've had new treants added every expansion pretty much, with the Draenor ancients showing up here and there in Azeroth. Getting them as a new druid form would just be them having a new druid form, its not something related one way or another to a revamp

    and, well, frankly I don't think makrura should get more different stuff. They're our classic WC3 lobster creeps. That's how they look. Different aesthetic stuff should be its own thing.

    Also on the longboys, I don't think the deepstriders make the best base for giraffes. If you've seen Deepstriders walk, they put their necks down which, is a very non-giraffe pose. Most of their animations would just look weird on giraffes, unlike

    And, well. Giraffes are tameable, Deepstriders aren't (although, Deepstriders DO have a DressingRoom animation which suggests they were intended to be tameable at some point...)

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    It's not an interpretation, you have no notion of game design and you purposely don't understand because you don't want to for some arbitrary reason.
    If it's to troll in this way, I advise you to simply ignore it instead of deliberately polluting the discussion.
    then enlighten me instead of moaning.
    i don't "troll" or "pollute the discussion", i'm expressing my opinion that this "diversification" of trees would suck.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    You are so narrow-minded and conservative that I wonder what you are doing here, in a thread on the subject of a revamp.
    No interest in arguing with you.
    Says the one resorting to almost purely ad hominems.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    This does not prevent them from diversifying, in the same way as the Naga. This does not mean that they will no longer exist.
    It flies in the face of how they've been presented in the last 20 years. Makrura have, ever since WC3, been "big ol' lobster guys with one large claw"

    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    Why deny that treants are more diverse as well? I don't understand this mindset. The old models would not be deleted eh.
    I'm not denying it? You're wanting completely unrelated models to be shoved in which, well, I guess they could do it as druid customisation I guess. But like..

    what on earth does this remotely have to do with a world revamp. It has absolutely nothing to do with it. They could just add those in tomorrow and just go "yeah we have this old model left over from Shadowlands have it as a druid customisation whatever". There is in no way a correlation between "Old Shadowlands model being reused" and "World revamp possibilities". Heck, given the game's current state, I'd say "Old Shadowlands model" are things we're unlikely to see getting the limelight for a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    You are aware that the skeleton used by longdogs is a giraffe anatomy, reassure me?
    They just made them creatures without a long neck. And animation level, it would work precisely on giraffes, since they were created on a modified giraffe anatomy.
    Have you ever seen the animations of the deepstriders or how giraffes move? No. They are not based on giraffes. If anything Deepstriders remind me of deer. Deer on stilts. Also note their really long tails

    Ironically their legs are like, way too proportionally long for giraffes. That's before we get to the rest of their animations which will absolutely not work for a giraffe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Utsuko View Post
    Yes and so ?
    Longdogs are not giraffes. You see problems where there are none.

    I mean, that's how WoW has been since its inception. This is how gamedesign works and I don't understand why you are 2 coming to tell me no, it's a bad idea when it always has been. You don't think like developers, and I tried to explain that.

    It's a realistic and smart way to recycle animations to create new creatures or just update. These have been of high quality for the past few years and I would love to review some of them.

    After that depends on their choices, taking the case of the cows, they can just as easily update them with an HD skin while keeping the old animations smoothed (like the sheep and the boars).

    It's just a suggestion on my part by bringing together models that look alike and/or can work together.
    Giraffes are tameable. Deepstriders aren't. If the issue is animations (like what Petopia suggests), then using them as a base may have issues

    Now, you gotta understand mate. I have modded Warcraft 3 for ten years. I am a little famillier with skeletons and how much you can stretch creatures. More than a little famillier, you may say. I can visually recognise that grubs and sandreavers all just use the basilisk skeleton. This is why I'm not commenting on the cow side because, sure, they could use the skeleton developed there for a new one. I doubt they would, given the animations the cow critters use at the moment and how they kept boars using their old animations rather than sharing direhorn animations with the Draenor boars. But they could.

    If you honestly want me to grab the deepstrider's model, the giraffe's model, shove them both into Blender, and see the monstrosity that results when we attempt to use the Deepstrider's bones and animations for a giraffe, I am more than able to do so after work. Because let me tell you, just because it has long legs? The Deepstrider does not move like a giraffe at all. Even what we have at the moment, which is just the gazelle animations stretched out, gets across the mental look of 'giraffe' far better than what you'd get for using anything from the deepstriders

  10. #350
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    The Netherlands!
    Posts
    9,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Mecheon View Post
    They're not going to update every model but, you do know like, half of those are updated models, right? Makrura were updated in Legion from their older Vanilla selves and even got a new variant in BfA, the Treant there is the updated Dragonflight version, and we get updated animals all the time without a world revamp

    There is also absolutely no way they're going to be changing the phoenix mount though. Simply touching a mount that rare would have people being lived
    They should and will to remain relevant in the market.

    Alot of models are already updated just not on old models, look at DF mammoth and WOTLK mammoth for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  11. #351
    reusing skeletons and animations, but creating new 3D meshes is a common practice in wow.

    But yes world revamp would be awesome, the real question is with what twist. Cataclysm had it's own flavor.

  12. #352
    I think an old world revamp or "Homecoming" would fit in perfectly with 20 years of WoW and 30 years of Warcraft and giving us a story centered around Orgrimmar and Stormwind while also being a backdrop to a Light vs Void conflict.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Mestalis View Post
    I absolutely love this, amazing post. I love the idea of the mega-zones. I couldn't ask for more in 11.0, I was hoping for exactly what this post describes as 10.0, and believe there have been many clues. Ion said that they want to do player housing, but the biggest hurdle is the asset requirement. Knowing that they weren't happy with how Garrisons turned out, it seems clear to me that housing can never be truly realized without race specific customization. The best way to justify an asset investment is finding many purposes for new assets. A world revamp with the founding of multiple new racial capitals is the perfect opportunity for player housing. The anniversaries make it too good, please let it be so!
    Ironically you might have a small chance of hope here...

    Dragonflights dragonriding system may be paving the way for player housing with mounts that can be customised with colours/armor/designs.

    So I think its actually more possible than not player housing will be an 11.0 feature.

  14. #354
    Pandaren Monk Worldshaper's Avatar
    1+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
    Location
    Azeroth
    Posts
    1,976
    I've gone ahead and updated the OP slightly, to include some of the recent news regarding the potential for a world revamp.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •