Navies and ships of Azeroth

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

What are your ideas and headcanons about the various fleets and ships on Azeroth, of the ships and fleets' characteristics, strengths and weaknesses, of their designs and usefulness.

How should boats made by Dwarves, Gnomes (aside from their submarines), Draenei look like and what should be their characteristics to distinguish them from human and elven ships ? What about ships that Tauren, Darkspear Trolls and other Horde races should make ?

What would the potential as a naval power of each race according to their culture, ressources and other characteristics ?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

IDK why the Horde wastes time and resources building a lot of crappy oceangoing ships when they could build a lot of cheap blimps that can go faster and over land. Horde naval vessels have no hope of competing against the Alliance's age of sail vessels, which were the most advanced pieces of technology for their time and required an extensive industrial and logistical infrastructure that the Horde simply does not have. The Horde's capital city also doesn't even have a port. Those embarassing piers are located outside the city gates. Either commit and use dynamite to blow out the Eastern cliffs of Orgrimmar and build a proper port and build better ships, or focus on building up zeppelin fleets and build more airship towers. The Alliance also builds more advanced airships, but given that they do not use a cheap gasbags, the Horde could perhaps be able to build a bigger air force than the Alliance here, one of the few instances in which the Horde would have a quantity advantage.

I guess the Horde could still use some oceangoing vessels to transport lumber from Northrend, just as the British shipbuilders imported lumber from America after the island was deforested. IDK if Northrend trees are a better shipbuilding material than Ashenvale trees.

[Aurabolt]

I guess the Horde could still use some oceangoing vessels to transport lumber from Northrend, just as the British shipbuilders imported lumber from America after the island was deforested. IDK if Northrend trees are a better shipbuilding material than Ashenvale trees.

...You raise an interesting point there.

After the Northrend Campaign ended, the continent's vast natural resources were opened to both factions. Same with Pandaria, the Broken Isles and KT/Zandalar. Why isn't either faction making use of them? The Horde does have a logical arguement for wanting to get lumber from nearby Ashenvale compared to getting it from what would obviously be much further away but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to move lumber from elsewhere to Orgrimmar.

That aside. My understanding is BFA's opening was about both factions bolstering their naval capabilities via KT and Zandalar respectively. After Dazar'alor got sacked and the Zandalari Navy was devastated before the attack, KT was left as prettymuch the most powerful naval power in the world.

[Zuben]

Since there was that 5-year timeskip I'd wager Zandalar and orcs have rebuilt their fleets. Maybe the Forsaken too, though their focus likely lies more on rebuilding their actual dwellings in Tirisfal. Sin'dorei had a small fleet that probably wasn't expanded much (though they got a new model recently). Maybe Suramar took upon themselves to build one, since they're a coastal nation on an island, though I doubt we'd see such in-game. Their post-Legion stuff seems to be fused together with the sin'dorei, so they'll be on their new ships if anything. The tauren wouldn't bother with seafaring.

Alliance-side the main fleet would be from Stormwind and Kul Tiras. Since the night elves still lack a good base they probably haven't recuperated their navy (though they got a new model too, so at least some ships will see action). Since the draenei are also based on isles like Suramar you'd think they'd be interested in building a navy, though I don't recall ever seeing draenei/eredar ships? Did Shattrath harbor have any, or were they all sunk by Iron Horde? Floating vessels feel more their thing, anyhow. Doubt dwarves would do seafaring on their own.

I think goblins and gnomes will limit their seastuff to the submarines. Goblins have an actual ship model of their own, but isn't it more a passenger ship?

[Shadowferal]

Pfft...those ships should only sail on the open sea with the nagas' blessing. Period.

[Ramz]

...You raise an interesting point there.

After the Northrend Campaign ended, the continent's vast natural resources were opened to both factions. Same with Pandaria, the Broken Isles and KT/Zandalar. Why isn't either faction making use of them? The Horde does have a logical arguement for wanting to get lumber from nearby Ashenvale compared to getting it from what would obviously be much further away but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to move lumber from elsewhere to Orgrimmar.

That aside. My understanding is BFA's opening was about both factions bolstering their naval capabilities via KT and Zandalar respectively. After Dazar'alor got sacked and the Zandalari Navy was devastated before the attack, KT was left as prettymuch the most powerful naval power in the world.

Yes, but then A lot of KT ships were sunk to the bottom of Nazjatar after pursuing the horde ships. So I don't think their navy is that impressive anymore. Sure things can change after time skip but that applies to every faction in this game.

[Lolites]

After Dazar'alor got sacked and the Zandalari Navy was devastated before the attack, KT was left as prettymuch the most powerful naval power in the world.

wasnt alliance (KT) fleet devastated on the way to nazjatar?

[Skytotem]

Yes, but then A lot of KT ships were sunk to the bottom of Nazjatar after pursuing the horde ships. So I don't think their navy is that impressive anymore. Sure things can change after time skip but that applies to every faction in this game.

Yeah but you have to account for Infrastructure. Zandalar and Kul'tiras have the ability to rebuild their fleets fast because that's what their society is built around, they have lots of ship builders/shipyards/etc and they NEED a strong navy to maintain trade ties and protect all their coastal settlements, the tauren aren't ever going to have a big navy cause they've got no coastal settlements, even in Highmountain.

What I'd like to see...

Alliance:
Stormwind: 'Balance' is obviously the first thing that comes to mind for them with a mix of transport, trade, and military ships, but frankly I think 'Fast' fits the name 'stormwind', after all their ships were the first to have big paddle engines on their icebreaker ships in Wotlk. Being able to send their fleet anywhere, in large numbers, quickly, fits Stormwind's role as the 'core' of the alliance.

Gilneas: Long range guns, after Gilneas is reclaimed their ships should have the longest firing range to make use of the wall and their coastal defenses to never lose the place again, and for their ships they could focus on a small number of incredibly high end ships with excellently designed tech, since Gilneas has the best industry of the human nations and the Forsaken probably kept that intact when trying to occupy it.

Kul'tiras: The Tidesages naturally give them the best options for environmental control. They can clear up the wind and fill their sails or ruin it for their enemies, and have the strongest option for coordinating trade between the Eastern Kingdoms alliance and the Kalimdor alliance. The biggest, toughest ships for when the Alliance needs to break out the BIG guns.

Night Elves: It's been pointed out on the SoL discord recently that the night elves korean influences actually make them PERFECT for employing a lot of the unique ships Korea had, such as the 'Turtle ship' that allowed them to throw back Japan's invasion in 1590s. And the Panokseon ship design would be perfect with a 'ancient' built into the ship itself. Nelfs worship of Elune also implies she has some indirect influence over water, as water elementals protect Astrannar and there's a mysterious Elune fountain in Neptulon's Cata era dungeon. They're also perfect for allying with Jinyu/Ankoan due to aesthetic/thematic overlap.

Draenei: This one is tricky, they have literally flying fortress crystal ships, but those are made with tech given to them by the Naaru, and they can't mass produce them. But their position on an island means they'd likely need SOME kind of navy, not just to rely on the Night elves and distant human allies. A small number of heavily armored transports with a focus on defense or light-bending crystals to let them cloak feels most appropriate.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Given that this is a fantasy, I wonder why we haven't seen more creature ships. The Tuskurr built their boat on top of a turtle. How about a ship that is pulled by creatures? Maybe Orcish sailors tamed some sea monsters that could pull their ships and attack enemy vessels.

And the Panokseon ship design would be perfect with a 'ancient' built into the ship itself.

A living wooden/tree ship would have been very cool!

[Skytotem]

Horde:

Goblin: Fast merchant ships for smuggling or outrunning threats rather than fighting for the most part. When they DO field combat craft they're ships geared up with lots of firepower to take out larger vessels and sea monsters. Probably not super accurate but with a FAST rate of fire, to saturate the target (If you fire enough times, you'll hit SOMETHING fits goblins). They probably have a lot of interchangeable parts so when you face goblins you're playing roulette on what equipment they have in place, a turbo charge, a smoke generator, an oil slick?

Orc: Fast transports designed for crashing into other ships and boarding them, along with the big dreadnought style ones crewed with ogres designed to bombard coastal defenses and let them land, every orc ship is designed to turn sea battles into 'land battles' since that's more the Horde's specialty. They don't have a lot of cannons, but the ones they have are big, slow, and DEVASTATING.

Darkspear Trolls: Darkspear should take up a greater focus on Gral worship and the Unshackled. Small fast destroyers with ballista and sling-launchers loaded with shark teeth, while bigger ships can be dedicated to Shadra and Hir'eek, full of spiders and bats that allow them to disrupt enemies by tossing spider eggs on board or having bats screen enemy guns, while troll batriders fly out with loads of alchemic fire to hit enemy ships.

Zandalari: Perhaps some Tortollan stuff mixed in now that there's a Tortollan on the Zanchuli council, but their existing ships with Pa'ku focus work just fine, having casters aboard who tear up enemies and have blessed ammunition that can sail farther and hit harder than regular weaponry would, or that might chase opponents by twisting in the air like a pterrodax.

Forsaken: Forsaken should have undead dragoons/'big daddies' from bioshock, just picture them in diving suits climbing up the underside of enemy ships or crawling all over a gnomish submarine. Their ships should be supernaturally durable, staying afloat due to magic even though they have chunks torn out of them.

Belfs/Nightborne: I'd picture the Nightborne as relying heavily on the belfs for their ships, the Nightborne haven't BUILT any ships for years, even with magic automating a lot of the process they'll need to learn how to crew them and such. Belf ships I see being small fast and designed for patrolling close to Quel'thalas to let their casters get in range and take out an enemy in place of artillery.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

...You raise an interesting point there.

After the Northrend Campaign ended, the continent's vast natural resources were opened to both factions. Same with Pandaria, the Broken Isles and KT/Zandalar. Why isn't either faction making use of them? The Horde does have a logical arguement for wanting to get lumber from nearby Ashenvale compared to getting it from what would obviously be much further away but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to move lumber from elsewhere to Orgrimmar.

To force the faction conflict, even if there are surely other ways for the Orcs to get lumber and other ressources than to invade the lands of the Night Elves, and that it's absurd that they even have the means to keep doing it after all the wars and losses they had.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah but you have to account for Infrastructure. Zandalar and Kul'tiras have the ability to rebuild their fleets fast because that's what their society is built around, they have lots of ship builders/shipyards/etc and they NEED a strong navy to maintain trade ties and protect all their coastal settlements, the tauren aren't ever going to have a big navy cause they've got no coastal settlements, even in Highmountain.

What I'd like to see...

Alliance:
Stormwind: 'Balance' is obviously the first thing that comes to mind for them with a mix of transport, trade, and military ships, but frankly I think 'Fast' fits the name 'stormwind', after all their ships were the first to have big paddle engines on their icebreaker ships in Wotlk. Being able to send their fleet anywhere, in large numbers, quickly, fits Stormwind's role as the 'core' of the alliance.

Gilneas: Long range guns, after Gilneas is reclaimed their ships should have the longest firing range to make use of the wall and their coastal defenses to never lose the place again, and for their ships they could focus on a small number of incredibly high end ships with excellently designed tech, since Gilneas has the best industry of the human nations and the Forsaken probably kept that intact when trying to occupy it.

Kul'tiras: The Tidesages naturally give them the best options for environmental control. They can clear up the wind and fill their sails or ruin it for their enemies, and have the strongest option for coordinating trade between the Eastern Kingdoms alliance and the Kalimdor alliance. The biggest, toughest ships for when the Alliance needs to break out the BIG guns.

Night Elves: It's been pointed out on the SoL discord recently that the night elves korean influences actually make them PERFECT for employing a lot of the unique ships Korea had, such as the 'Turtle ship' that allowed them to throw back Japan's invasion in 1590s. And the Panokseon ship design would be perfect with a 'ancient' built into the ship itself. Nelfs worship of Elune also implies she has some indirect influence over water, as water elementals protect Astrannar and there's a mysterious Elune fountain in Neptulon's Cata era dungeon. They're also perfect for allying with Jinyu/Ankoan due to aesthetic/thematic overlap.

Draenei: This one is tricky, they have literally flying fortress crystal ships, but those are made with tech given to them by the Naaru, and they can't mass produce them. But their position on an island means they'd likely need SOME kind of navy, not just to rely on the Night elves and distant human allies. A small number of heavily armored transports with a focus on defense or light-bending crystals to let them cloak feels most appropriate.

I am surprised you didn't mention dwarves and gnomes, given their technology and frequent involvement with their human allies. And I don't think that Gnomes would only make submarines for ships.

[Grazrug]

Everything Kul Tiras has.

[Aurabolt]

wasnt alliance (KT) fleet devastated on the way to nazjatar?

A Fleet, yes. Not the entire fleet though. More so with the time skip and the armistice KT had time to start replacing their losses.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, but then A lot of KT ships were sunk to the bottom of Nazjatar after pursuing the horde ships. So I don't think their navy is that impressive anymore. Sure things can change after time skip but that applies to every faction in this game.

Yep, that last bit is my point. And knowing Jaina, she likely made rebuilding the fleet a priority after the events of BFA and SL.

[Dancaris]

A Fleet, yes. Not the entire fleet though. More so with the time skip and the armistice KT had time to start replacing their losses.

Same with Zandalari, I think. During SoDA only part of the fleet was nuked. Half was going to Nazmir, part of off coast to be destroed by mines.

Yep, that last bit is my point. And knowing Jaina, she likely made rebuilding the fleet a priority after the events of BFA and SL.

I hope we will not get that "MAH REVENGE" story from Talanji to Jaina. To fullscale war between KT and Zaldalar, again. Personal revenge is ok. But make it war? No way. To rebuid fleet just to be nuked by Alliance and Jaina plotarmour? Fck that.

[Lolites]

A Fleet, yes. Not the entire fleet though. More so with the time skip and the armistice KT had time to start replacing their losses.

sure, and same goes for zandalari fleetl, hence the KT being "the most powerful naval power in the world" seems a bit of an overstatement, as both were partialy destroyed and both had time to replace

[Grazrug]

Same with Zandalari, I think. During SoDA only part of the fleet was nuked. Half was going to Nazmir, part of off coast to be destroed by mines.

I hope we will not get that "MAH REVENGE" story from Talanji to Jaina. To fullscale war between KT and Zaldalar, again. Personal revenge is ok. But make it war? No way. To rebuid fleet just to be nuked by Alliance and Jaina plotarmour? Fck that.

Nah. That will not happen. Horde isn't allowed to hold grudges. We won't see a new Zandalari fleet ever again. It's gone and Blizzard will leave it at that. And they aren't interested to give world building to races other then humans. Which is why Zandalar had no place where we see them building the fleet and Zuldazar being the only densly populated settlement in the whole continent. Remember Voldun and Nazmir are No man's land.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

I believe that there should be more ports and naval bases for both factions than shown in the game. The Night Elves should have at least one harbor in Winterspring to trade and get supplies and reinforcements for Ashenvale faster than with ships having to go all the way to Teldrassil and Feathermoon Harbor, and with the Dwarves and Gnomes having several naval bases for submarines, icebreakers and dreadnoughts on Khaz Modan coasts.

The Echo Isles should have at least one proper harbod for trade and transport to the rest of Kalimdor and with Zandalar, and to host a large fleet.

[Maljinwo]

The Echo Isles should have at least one proper harbod for trade and transport to the rest of Kalimdor and with Zandalar, and to host a large fleet.

According to the Mission Table in BfA, the Echo Isles were the Horde's largest port.
Although this is not reflected anywhere

[loras]

What are your ideas and headcanons about the various fleets and ships on Azeroth, of the ships and fleets' characteristics, strengths and weaknesses, of their designs and usefulness.

How should boats made by Dwarves, Gnomes (aside from their submarines), Draenei look like and what should be their characteristics to distinguish them from human and elven ships ? What about ships that Tauren, Darkspear Trolls and other Horde races should make ?

What would the potential as a naval power of each race according to their culture, ressources and other characteristics ?

Draenei would be more like crystalline hovercrafts i imagine.
Dwarves would be like a dwarven version if the Iron Horde ships we've seen, with gnomish being more refined technical/intelligence counterparts in the same navy.

Tauren seem odd for a navy but mught be more interesting for exactly that reason, i imagine something big and spacious, a huge flatbottom driven by magic primarily rather than wind or machinery. A sort of "spirit plains-ship" looking as if it could traverse grassland flats just as easily as the ocean.

Trolls would likely just use zandalari designs adapted to their needs, maybe the darkspear could be make a "bendy" long narrow version akin to real life viking ships. One that "snakes" through the waves thereby avoiding most of the sea's wear and tear.

Worgen would go for something like either dutch or english classical tall ships i'd say... then again so does Kul Tiras, hmm... maybe something to incorporate their worgen heritage? A more boarding-party-tactics tailored ship?

Void elves i imagine to either go for a small scale "dark draenei" crystalline surface skimmer version or for a more modest version of blood elven ships.
Orcs have ships, but honestly they never felt fitting for them. I'd expect something more open, spacious and with more guns and more "speedy" goblin-facilitated design, since they are just never gonna win on the defense.

Goblins mostly just need more variety of the DGAF kind.

[Shadowferal]

Tauren and dragon boats come to mind.