Unspoken lesbian lovestory?

[gaymer77]

I would very much appreciate a cool and fun character that isn't just a super camp caricature. All of my LGB friends are average as hell, they have personalities that are far larger than who they love / sleep with. There's no reason that couldn't also be done in fiction.

I know exactly what you're talking about. Yes the WoW NPC Bud was funny and the whole WoW community all think 110% he was supposed to be gay but his over-the-top flamboyance was something that all my LGBT friends who play WoW thought was annoying. As a gay man, I welcome inclusive characters to video games that may be different than the typical cisgender heteronormative but when we see characters (confirmed or assumed to be) portrayed as "gay" that are a caricature of a gay/trans person, it gets annoying and often times offensive. I, like your friends, are pretty fucking average. IRL I'm not overtly masculine but I'm not overtly fem either. I'm just who I am and don't care if people think I'm girlie or gay based on how I'm acting. If a person just saw me standing in public they would not get the "gay vibe" from me. Hell I wear shorts & sandals year round (have the foot tan lines to prove it too lol) because they're comfortable to me.

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There's also Tholo and Anren from Mount Hyjal. They say they are each other's best friends but I got the feeling it was more than that (Anren says: "Tholo and I have been through so much together. I always know he's watching out for me.", while Tholo says: "Anren is my best friend. I don't know what I would do without him.").

See that one I didn't get any "gay vibes" from at all. I saw it as two males showing platonic affection for each other. Outside of Korea or Japan (honestly can't remember which one male friend PDA is a commonplace in) male affection is interpreted as "they're gay". Telling another male "I love you" or hugging or holding hands is non-existent because it is seen as a thing men don't do. Hell men showing feelings or emotions for their on sons are typically not done because that's "how men act". The whole "man up" line given to boys when they cry is a perfect example of it. Tholo and Anren just seemed like more progressive thinking men who had no issues showing how they feel about the other in a friendship way.

[Powerogue]

Selistra is a red dragon with neither a male nor female suffix and referred to exclusively with gender neutral pronouns. They are almost certainly Non-Binary. That is technically under the Trans umbrella of course, but to zero in on the specifics it's safe to say Selistra is intended to be an enby.

I actually didn't notice that when leveling. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Majordomo_Selistra Neat! Who's their voice actor? They do somewhat sound like Raine Whispers from Owl House now that I take the time to notice it.

edit: Freaking what? Marc Graue? https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Mar...0of%20Warcraft Take a look at that range!

Googling again I can't find confirmation one way or another but it's the first thing that shows up, and he voiced like half of WoW's characters so I still wouldn't put it past him.

[gaymer77]

Yes, I'm sure they'd like to stop being misrepresented to push an agenda.

Seeing how they didn't have an "agenda" and that same-sex relations were very commonplace, it wasn't an "agenda" but simply "accepted social behavior". Hell there was a group of elite soldiers who were basically all partnered off with another from the group. Men had young boys as essentially sex slaves while married to women. Same-sex sex was very common back then. It wasn't until Christianity hit the area and proclaimed all of those things to be wrong that the Greek & Roman societies looked down upon same-sex relations. But yeah, their "agenda".

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I actually didn't notice that when leveling. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Majordomo_Selistra Neat! Who's their voice actor? They do somewhat sound like Raine Whispers from Owl House now that I take the time to notice it.

edit: Freaking what? Marc Graue? https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Mar...0of%20Warcraft Take a look at that range!

Googling again I can't find confirmation one way or another but it's the first thing that shows up, and he voiced like half of WoW's characters so I still wouldn't put it past him.

Dude I Googled him the first night I was playing because I was curious who did the voice. I couldn't find shit about it. IMDb doesn't list the character at all. All the fan sites doesn't have a voice actor for them either. I doubt it was Marc Graue because the voice is more soft spoken male and Marc's characters are very baritone masculine sounding.

[Karreck]

Yes, I'm sure they'd like to stop being misrepresented to push an agenda.

Historical facts and evidence disagree with you.

[MrFrag]

Dracthyr might be even hermaphrodite. I don't know, they are very mysterious creatures. Do they lay eggs or give birth like mammals? No idea. Even with that amound of unkowns, I have no idea how this guy came with idea of lesbian lovestory. I mean we don't know what the heck they are.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Yeah and 0 heterosexual ones in the Dragon Isles.

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Oh noes, people are exposed to things that exist in the real world in a video game...

GTFO with your indoctrination garbage.

Don't even argue with these type of people. They'll never understand nor will try to.

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You don't actually play the game do you? You clearly haven't done the new Blue Dragonflight quest line? There's a confirmed hetero couple, and implied hetero couple, and a mentioned hetero couple. All in the same questline! Wowie wow!

Now think of all the hetero couples in Dragonflight you have missed because you didn't read the quest dialogue or skipped cutscences.

I wonder where all these dragon babies came from...

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It will always be hillarious to me how easily offended people are by any amount of gay or lesbian anything.

I 10000% completely agree.

[Soon-TM]

It only exists in the real world because it's being pushed on us by the elite in academia, entertainment/media, social media, advertising, etc. It's a social contagion. None of this existed 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. You are the indoctrinated one.

Now this is signature-worthy material

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Dracthyr might be even hermaphrodite. I don't know, they are very mysterious creatures. Do they lay eggs or give birth like mammals? No idea. Even with that amound of unkowns, I have no idea how this guy came with idea of lesbian lovestory. I mean we don't know what the heck they are.

Well, they are lab-made creatures, they might very well not even have any gender(s) at all for all we know.

[Feanoro]

Historical facts and evidence disagree with you.

Strange how those "facts" only came to light recently, when those cultures have been studied for centuries.

[Lolites]

Strange how those "facts" only came to light recently, when those cultures have been studied for centuries.

they didnt, they are well known for ages...
just bcs it recently came to your attention doesnt mean its new, just that you are behind in your knowledge

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Selistra is obviously supposed to be "trans" and the voice actor even sounds like a dude on HRT

seems more like you see it bcs you WANT TO see it, so you have something to whine about...
and tbh thats "you" problem, not game problem...

[RahEndymion]

I know exactly what you're talking about. Yes the WoW NPC Bud was funny and the whole WoW community all think 110% he was supposed to be gay but his over-the-top flamboyance was something that all my LGBT friends who play WoW thought was annoying. As a gay man, I welcome inclusive characters to video games that may be different than the typical cisgender heteronormative but when we see characters (confirmed or assumed to be) portrayed as "gay" that are a caricature of a gay/trans person, it gets annoying and often times offensive. I, like your friends, are pretty fucking average. IRL I'm not overtly masculine but I'm not overtly fem either. I'm just who I am and don't care if people think I'm girlie or gay based on how I'm acting. If a person just saw me standing in public they would not get the "gay vibe" from me. Hell I wear shorts & sandals year round (have the foot tan lines to prove it too lol) because they're comfortable to me.
.

Exactly this.

Honestly, it really winds me up and I'm not even part of the LGBT community. Sure, I don't expect a truck load of nuance in a WoW questline obviously, but it would be nice if the developers stepped out of their little bubble every once in a while. The way they amplify this sort of twitter/reddit/tumblr stereotype; the terminally online, garishly coloured, excessively flamboyant and camp version of LGBT+ seems like it's designed to wind people up on all sides. It feels like the writers believe drag = LGBT and that's quite something considering a sizable portion of the team consider themselves part of the LGBT community.

It makes the WoW community look far more homophobic than it actually is because, well, nobody likes poorly written characters that reek of misguided tokenism. Plus, I think most people just don't play WoW to set up relationships between unknown NPC's, whether they're gay, hetero, lizard, mole, none of that really matters. It's corny and ham fisted.

There are so many avenues to introduce characters that can have a cool, lasting impact on the story. Actual recurring characters that aren't quite literally introduced and reduced instantly to their sexuality.

Give me the gay defias leader fighting for the peasants or something. The lesbian sentinel ostracized because of some archaic rule against inter-sentinel relationships fighting her fight. Whatever, just more than 'lol look they're the same gender and we're going to help them set up their first date!!11!1'

[Karreck]

Strange how those "facts" only came to light recently, when those cultures have been studied for centuries.

Strange how those facts got buried by generations of puritan thought even with the evidence staring us in the face.
Ever wonder why so many phallic objects are labeled as for "ritual purposes" instead of just being called what it is? A dildo. Notice how countless same sex remains, buried together in the same manner as heterosexual couples, were always identified as being "friends" instead of as couples? My personal favorite is how Achilles and Patroclus were clearly presented as lovers in works by Plato and Aeschylus, but this relationship was suppressed in history by Christian scholars to the point where even more modern historians refer to both men as "cousins".
The true scope and depth of LGBTQ+ history has been suppressed, buried, and ignored for centuries, all thanks to close minded, often religious motivated, thought.

You would do well to actually educate yourself on the subject instead of holding on to your clearly outdated notions.

[Soon-TM]

It makes the WoW community look far more homophobic than it actually is because, well, nobody likes poorly written characters that reek of misguided tokenism. Plus, I think most people just don't play WoW to set up relationships between unknown NPC's, whether they're gay, hetero, lizard, mole, none of that really matters. It's corny and ham fisted.

While this may be true, I think it's pretty evident by now that homophobes of all colours and sizes use said poor writing as an excuse to give free rein to their hatred and their own insecurities. Same !@$% with all the "controversy" regarding the black Little Mermaid - I swear that all the "U gOtTa ReSPecT tEh cHArActErS EtHn1ciTy!!11!!" @·$%&ing was as comical as it was sad.

[Powerogue]

[video=youtube;FtD6DRmO_RU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtD6DRmO_RU[video]
[video=youtube;7138EfX7C4o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7138EfX7C4o[video]

It's weird in retrospect that the only acknowledgement of Sindragosa and Malygos's relationship is posthumously all these expansions later but it was sweet to see. I think they changed his VA as well, it sounded significantly deeper than in the instance, but that happens when his last voice role was in 2008.

I still don't know how to feel with Malfurion and Tyrande. Ultimately she's shown she's capable of leading the nelves on her own, but man, haven't we been through enough? I hope we get to see the seed grow this expansion. Theoretically it may be possible to trade back if they really need Malfurion down the line. But for now, one family splits, another reunites. Very sweet cutscene.

Not sure if we're counting Veritistrasz and the unclear romantic vs friendship he had with that female black dragon before the war with Deathwing but I loved that and seeing him slowly heal and meet new people over the expansion. I appreciate how the black dragon who originally came to him for information on Neltharion's old artifacts only to find them turn out to be mundane came to value his input and clearly spends time with him.

I'm not asking them to be named Larry and Bob but come on now, it's like the devs saw the name Sepphiroth in Final Fantasy and went "I need everyone of this new species to have the same style of pretentious ass names"

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from reserving the Dracthyr name "Bob." A new start outside of Neltharion's control means the opportunity to choose that identity for yourselves! Go wild!

(Or go the reference route like I did. Welcome to the world, Moonwatcher! One of my favorite dragon characters.)

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Give me the gay defias leader fighting for the peasants or something. The lesbian sentinel ostracized because of some archaic rule against inter-sentinel relationships fighting her fight. Whatever, just more than 'lol look they're the same gender and we're going to help them set up their first date!!11!1'

They've already been doing this. Flynn and Shaw come to mind. It's just generally when it's done subtly in the background we don't notice because it's not the focus of the scene. Like I didn't know that red dragon Majordomo was nby until people here pointed it out, because there isn't any dialogue actively drawing attention to it. They're just a person.

Heck isn't that the whole point of the thread? Talking about examples of more loosely implied relationships in the background of the larger stories? Like maybe those two dracthyr will get together, maybe not, but it's certainly not there purely for representation points. It's a small piece of a larger story of how the World of Warcraft is changing in its first period of (comparative) peace in decades.

[Soon-TM]

Heck isn't that the whole point of the thread? Talking about examples of more loosely implied relationships in the background of the larger stories?

I think it is. After all, Azeroth needs to be tendered to and overall take a breath after Idk how many world-ending threats, so a few love stories contribute to create the mood, whether those stories are big or small, explicit or tacit, straight or LGBT.

But of course, the homophobic crowd had to come out of the woodwork to spout some gibberish about "woke", "indoctrination", "gay agenda" and what not.