Blizzard's Thoughts on the WoW Token in Wrath Classic, WoW Hotfixes - May 24, 2023

[trimble]

You realize there's more than 200 realms on US alone right. You're casually saying "just hire 500 people full-time!". Still delusional.

Why...? It isn't like it would even cut into profits much with what they make off wow still. Why is it absurd to ask for customer services in a game with a sub,cashshop,cosmetics,services,yearly expansions, and merch?

[Biomega]

Why...? It isn't like it would even cut into profits much with what they make off wow still. Why is it absurd to ask for customer services in a game with a sub,cashshop,cosmetics,services,yearly expansions, and merch?

Because a business is about returns on investments. You can't just set money on fire to try and "fix" a problem that's in no proportion to the cost of a solution. 500 people at say $25,000 a year is 12.5 million dollars (and that is on the extreme low side in terms of salary, it's likely significantly higher). That's not exactly petty cash.

I'm so tired of these "it's not going to literally bankrupt them so they should do it" type arguments. If you have no idea about the elementary aspects of business economics, why start a debate with wild suggestions like that? It's okay to just say you don't know how this works, but you wish they'd have a solution. Then people can explain to you why "a solution" isn't what you need, "a FEASIBLE solution" is. And they have one. It's called selling WoW tokens. Everything else is either ineffectual or economically unfeasible, or a radical alteration of the game (e.g. if they decided to just remove all trading, or remove all gold, or whatever).

The magical solution that's just super easy and affordable and effective and has no impact on anything else SIMPLY DOESN'T EXIST. No matter how much the underinformed forum heroes cry about it. They've tried for decades to fix this, but there's a whole catalog of reasons why it isn't feasible. So they did the next best thing, which is to at least make the transactions PEOPLE WANT safer and more straightforward for them.

[trimble]

Because a business is about returns on investments. You can't just set money on fire to try and "fix" a problem that's in no proportion to the cost of a solution. 500 people at say $25,000 a year is 12.5 million dollars (and that is on the extreme low side in terms of salary, it's likely significantly higher). That's not exactly petty cash.

I'm so tired of these "it's not going to literally bankrupt them so they should do it" type arguments. If you have no idea about the elementary aspects of business economics, why start a debate with wild suggestions like that? It's okay to just say you don't know how this works, but you wish they'd have a solution. Then people can explain to you why "a solution" isn't what you need, "a FEASIBLE solution" is. And they have one. It's called selling WoW tokens. Everything else is either ineffectual or economically unfeasible, or a radical alteration of the game (e.g. if they decided to just remove all trading, or remove all gold, or whatever).

The magical solution that's just super easy and affordable and effective and has no impact on anything else SIMPLY DOESN'T EXIST. No matter how much the underinformed forum heroes cry about it. They've tried for decades to fix this, but there's a whole catalog of reasons why it isn't feasible. So they did the next best thing, which is to at least make the transactions PEOPLE WANT safer and more straightforward for them.

I think the difference of thought process is what I expect from busniesses. I don't have that weird westren mindset of justifying everything for stockbrokers. I know they wont fix it but pretending like they are not just milking the game for cash is a bit much.

[Biomega]

I think the difference of thought process is what I expect from busniesses. I don't have that weird westren mindset of justifying everything for stockbrokers. I know they wont fix it but pretending like they are not just milking the game for cash is a bit much.

Your problem is you don't know anything about business economics, and so you're engaging in a binary between "servicing customers no matter the cost" and "milking customers because they're greedy capitalist pigs". But that's not how this works, at all.

ANY company has to be mindful of its business economics, and if it's not, it will eventually cease to be. That doesn't mean one singular decision will be the one to bankrupt you, but if you keep making decisions that cost you money you're a charity, not a business. That has nothing to do with greed or shareholders, THAT IS HOW ALL BUSINESS WORKS.

Throwing massive amounts of money just to get rid of a problem even though that problem costs you far less than that money you spend to "fix" it is the definition of a bad business strategy. This has, again, nothing to do with greed, but is the absolutely elementary mechanic underlying all profit-seeking enterprise. And that's ultimately GOOD for consumers, because it means the company they are obviously enjoying the product of will continue to do business. And if you're not enjoying their product, stop purchasing it, and ideally tell them why; if it turns out the problem costs them more money than before because people are quitting, they'll modify their behavior and perhaps now it IS a good strategy to spend extra money. That's the basic customer-business relationship.

What you're describing is just an unreasonable rant, going "why don't you spend millions of dollars to fix this one thing that doesn't actually cost you millions of dollars? YOU'RE SO GREEDY!". That doesn't help anyone, because there's no response to that kind of unreasonable demand other than nodding politely and ignoring what you're saying. That's not a good way to get your wishes through to a company.

Keep in mind that a lot of people WANT to buy gold here. This isn't them sitting on some kind of destructive force, pushing gold-buying onto people to their detriment and laughing all the way to the bank as they squeeze helpless saps for the last drop of their earnings. They didn't want to sell people gold. They made it illegal in their game. But PEOPLE WANT TO DO IT, and they keep doing, and have been keeping on doing it for 30 years. At some point you have to go "well a good chunk of our customer base wants this, and they're using unsafe and often criminal ways to get it... perhaps we should just make it legal and regulate it ourselves?". That's the more sensible solution than trying in vain to stop something you can never feasibly counter the manpower or contain the reach of; all the while denying your customers a service they adamantly insist they want.

This is a sensible, completely reasonable business decision. It has nothing to do with greed, and everything to do with the absolutely basic fundamentals of business. This isn't "lol capitalism ruining the world again amirite". This is economics of the most trivial kind.

[trimble]

Your problem is you don't know anything about business economics, and so you're engaging in a binary between "servicing customers no matter the cost" and "milking customers because they're greedy capitalist pigs". But that's not how this works, at all.

ANY company has to be mindful of its business economics, and if it's not, it will eventually cease to be. That doesn't mean one singular decision will be the one to bankrupt you, but if you keep making decisions that cost you money you're a charity, not a business. That has nothing to do with greed or shareholders, THAT IS HOW ALL BUSINESS WORKS.

Throwing massive amounts of money just to get rid of a problem even though that problem costs you far less than that money you spend to "fix" it is the definition of a bad business strategy. This has, again, nothing to do with greed, but is the absolutely elementary mechanic underlying all profit-seeking enterprise. And that's ultimately GOOD for consumers, because it means the company they are obviously enjoying the product of will continue to do business. And if you're not enjoying their product, stop purchasing it, and ideally tell them why; if it turns out the problem costs them more money than before because people are quitting, they'll modify their behavior and perhaps now it IS a good strategy to spend extra money. That's the basic customer-business relationship.

What you're describing is just an unreasonable rant, going "why don't you spend millions of dollars to fix this one thing that doesn't actually cost you millions of dollars? YOU'RE SO GREEDY!". That doesn't help anyone, because there's no response to that kind of unreasonable demand other than nodding politely and ignoring what you're saying. That's not a good way to get your wishes through to a company.

Keep in mind that a lot of people WANT to buy gold here. This isn't them sitting on some kind of destructive force, pushing gold-buying onto people to their detriment and laughing all the way to the bank as they squeeze helpless saps for the last drop of their earnings. They didn't want to sell people gold. They made it illegal in their game. But PEOPLE WANT TO DO IT, and they keep doing, and have been keeping on doing it for 30 years. At some point you have to go "well a good chunk of our customer base wants this, and they're using unsafe and often criminal ways to get it... perhaps we should just make it legal and regulate it ourselves?". That's the more sensible solution than trying in vain to stop something you can never feasibly counter the manpower or contain the reach of; all the while denying your customers a service they adamantly insist they want.

This is a sensible, completely reasonable business decision. It has nothing to do with greed, and everything to do with the absolutely basic fundamentals of business. This isn't "lol capitalism ruining the world again amirite". This is economics of the most trivial kind.

You assume distaste and distain for ignorance. They are not the same thing.

[Biomega]

You assume distaste and distain for ignorance. They are not the same thing.

I don't assume that they're mutually exclusive, either. You've voiced your disdain. You've DEMONSTRATED your ignorance.

[sam86]

I think you don't quite get the scales at play here. This isn't just like, one or two random people. Back in its heyday, gold farming in WoW was a ridiculously massive industry

yes and its main income was hacking non stop, i remember a survey made by blizz (way back in old website) that showed over 50% got hacked at least once, pre-smartphone era gold making is totally different post smartphone and authenticator for everyone, heck even back then when we had battery authenticator they always run out of them on blizzcon

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I feel like you're saying they steal the credit cards themselves, but that's not how it works. They buy them for 10c-1$ on the dark web, then buy as many accounts as they can and set them botting. Also, Blizzard doesn't see your credit card details, as far as I'm aware, that's handled by Adyen, their payment processor.

still it isn't profitable for simple fact this is digital product, the only way u can profit from cc stealing is physical products, anything digital will get reversed in few days max

[Stickiler]

still it isn't profitable for simple fact this is digital product, the only way u can profit from cc stealing is physical products, anything digital will get reversed in few days max

They only need a few days botting to make back the max 1$ they spent on that CC, which is why they do it

[Bakis]

Ahh the "Blizzard is lying and I am telling the truth" post despite the fact they have the data and you have nothing.
Prove your claims.

You are hopefully intelligent enough to know that is impossible for me to do just so.
However you seem not as intelligent as to learn from the past and BLZ's numerous serious/"serious" 'Combat bots tours' going back as far as TBC.

Neither you or me have their numbers and it is up to use both to draw a conclusion from their claims.
You are in the at face value camp.
Myself, im looking at their track record.

And care to adress the simple fact that a bot is in most circumstances a paying sub which is revenue even if just for a month.
Of all hacked cards which evolve into subs, I bet you its a miniscule amount of those that get the card owner refunded by its card issuer.
Bots are revenue. You cant avoid that. The only time it will impact revenue negatively is if it grows too large of an issue.

Hence why we see the now and than random "We suspended x accounts" posts.
And how is the claim "We got better tools than ever to combat bots" not tickle your critical thinking.
Tech dont stand still, and not for cheat developers either, of cos its better. Is the game better in terms of botting though? since TBC.
*duh*

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Banning bots WILL...NOT...WORK unless you break the botting software as well. It amuses me people think botters will quit because they got banned. That is beyond niave thinking.

Must be hard for a company with billions in revenue in all their portfolio to make software that does /who command and spot 90% dubious random named rouges farming the same instance and hire personal to review accounts to give you one glaring example of BLZ stance on bots.
Cheat companies will outsmart BLZ and other developers always, what counts is the respone in terms of counter meassures.
Jeeses, you are so daft and obviously know nothing about cheat developers and its market.

[rrayy]

You are hopefully intelligent enough to know that is impossible for me to do just so.
However you seem not as intelligent as to learn from the past and BLZ's numerous serious/"serious" 'Combat bots tours' going back as far as TBC.

Neither you or me have their numbers and it is up to use both to draw a conclusion from their claims.
You are in the at face value camp.
Myself, im looking at their track record.

NO you are looking at what you made up. Youa re looking at what fits your agenda. There is a ton that goes on behind the scenes that you don't see.

And care to adress the simple fact that a bot is in most circumstances a paying sub which is revenue even if just for a month.
Of all hacked cards which evolve into subs, I bet you its a miniscule amount of those that get the card owner refunded by its card issuer.
Bots are revenue. You cant avoid that. The only time it will impact revenue negatively is if it grows too large of an issue.

That is not a simple fact bvecause it is not true, The actuall botters who sell gold never pay for subs or don't care what they pay. The fact that you still think simply banning bots is all that is needed is LOL.

Hence why we see the now and than random "We suspended x accounts" posts.
And how is the claim "We got better tools than ever to combat bots" not tickle your critical thinking.
Tech dont stand still, and not for cheat developers either, of cos its better. Is the game better in terms of botting though? since TBC.
*duh*

When they talk about tols they mean those can can break them. Funny how yo still cannot grasp that.

FUunny you also say that yet still naively think banning bots will completely stop them.

Must be hard for a company with billions in revenue in all their portfolio to make software that does /who command and spot 90% dubious random named rouges farming the same instance and hire personal to review accounts to give you one glaring example of BLZ stance on bots.
Cheat companies will outsmart BLZ and other developers always, what counts is the respone in terms of counter meassures.
Jeeses, you are so daft and obviously know nothing about cheat developers and its market.

Translation: I lost my argument andn now I am going to claim that throwing momney at it will cause bots to stop.YOU are the one who doesn't know about cheats developers and their market because you hilariously think banning them will cause them to quit.

It's obvious you do not know what we are talking about ,so we are done here. You are just repeating the same failed arguments over and over again.

[Bakis]

NO you are looking at what you made up. Youa re looking at what fits your agenda. There is a ton that goes on behind the scenes that you don't see.

There is no agenda, I used to love the game, you might still do. Good for you.
However how come the game is as heavily plauged by bots/goldsellers since it has been since TBC. After all you claim BLZ has an adequate if not increased effort to combat just that.

That is not a simple fact bvecause it is not true, The actuall botters who sell gold never pay for subs or don't care what they pay. The fact that you still think simply banning bots is all that is needed is LOL.

However how come the game is as heavily plauged by bots/goldsellers since it has been since TBC. After all you claim BLZ has an adequate if not increased effort to combat just that.

When they talk about tols they mean those can can break them. Funny how yo still cannot grasp that.

Hehe, this is what you replied to:

Must be hard for a company with billions in revenue in all their portfolio to make software that does /who command and spot 90% dubious random named rouges farming the same instance and hire personal to review accounts to give you one glaring example of BLZ stance on bots.

I could have coded something that would catch that in 10 mins. I would still need the human review for legal reasons however.
But your argument is simply daft. And bear in mind I brought that up as the easiest and most crude and obvuious example to make a point.
And yet you had a non-sential answer to it.

Translation: I lost my argument andn now I am going to claim that throwing momney at it will cause bots to stop.YOU are the one who doesn't know about cheats developers and their market because you hilariously think banning them will cause them to quit.

It's obvious you do not know what we are talking about ,so we are done here. You are just repeating the same failed arguments over and over again.

Well maybe I lost the argument, let me repaste the retorte that can be used on every single one of you *cough* replies
However how come the game is as heavily plauged by bots/goldsellers since it has been since TBC. After all you claim BLZ has an adequate if not increased effort to combat just that.

You got two options left, Godwins Law or acknowledging that you played the game for 1,5 expansion. That's it mate.