[Spoilers] Under The Fat Goose Inn (D4 general talk)

[Kumorii]

So did I miss something, or is the Eternal Conflict kind of silly when it turns out the demons should have just been plucking the wings off the angels all this time?

What do you mean? Plucking the wings does nothing towards an angels immortality. If something it's just humiliation.

Angels and Demons die constantly. But they also reform constantly.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Are there going to be new classes in the future? I heard Blizzard is planning on releasing two expacs.

[RobertoCarlos]

Are there going to be new classes in the future? I heard Blizzard is planning on releasing two expacs.

Probably. Wouldn't be surprised if they're class themed expansions similar to the necromancer pack for d3

[LemonDemonGirl]

I need a Witch Doctor class in D4 so I can pretend I'm playing a troll lol

[Nymrohd]

I need a Witch Doctor class in D4 so I can pretend I'm playing a troll lol

I honestly don't see the point of both a Witch Doctor and a Necromancer. That said, I do think Diablo 4 will eventually explore the Teganze so it would make sense to have a Witch Doctor with that expac. Personally I hope the game stays around for a long time and that should let them add most of the classes from D2 and 3 eventually. E.g. I know Rogue covers much of the playstyle but if we do go to the Dreadlands we should be seeing Demon Hunters. And maybe we can get Amazons and some form of Holy Knight eventually
However the next class we will get is most likely going to be some kind of plate and shield knight. It could be another flavor of Paladin/Crusader/Templar or it could be something left field like a Blood or Demon-themed Knight. Still it is the main archetype that is missing from the game right now.

[Kumorii]

Would love to have the Paladin back tbh.

[lanerios]

well, decided to actually follow the story. Just started in Act 2, not skipping cutscenes anymore. Did I miss to much that I should just restart? Or is there just "Lilith evil, lilith go raage" that I missed?

[kranur]

well, decided to actually follow the story. Just started in Act 2, not skipping cutscenes anymore. Did I miss to much that I should just restart? Or is there just "Lilith evil, lilith go raage" that I missed?

Not really much in Act1. Just the introduction of some of the main characters.

[Biomega]

Are there going to be new classes in the future? I heard Blizzard is planning on releasing two expacs.

We don't know anything for sure of course but I'd be VERY surprised if they DIDN'T add new classes. Old classics like Paladin or Crusader would be trivial to add, probably; even Witch Doctor, for all the unpopularity of it. But it's also entirely possible they'd add something new.

What's more interesting is HOW they add it - whether just as part of an expansion as we're used to, or whether they'll be class-only addons (like D3's Necromancer) on the shop. Or both?

We'll have to wait and see, but SOMETHING is going to be added that's pretty much certain.

[Nymrohd]

well, decided to actually follow the story. Just started in Act 2, not skipping cutscenes anymore. Did I miss to much that I should just restart? Or is there just "Lilith evil, lilith go raage" that I missed?

Well Lilith's introduction in the cutscene in Nevesk is crucial since it defines her view on what humanity should be (together with her followers there becoming human sacrificing cannibals) and her cutscene with Rathma shows that she does care for humanity in a very twisted way (she values the strong as her children as an extremely overbearing mother would).
It definitely helps define Prava's character, it shows what the Cathedral is capable of especially in places like Magrave. And I'd assume we are not done with her.
For Inarius things are different; I feel the game alone doesn't give your a full characterization since it misses the crucial part of what Mephisto has been doing to him for aeons (and we don't ever get to know how exactly he escaped, unlike with Lilith). Still his cinematic and his murder of Rathma do help define his character and given that the real culmination of the story arc is the cinematic between him and Lilith and a big part of what happens in D4 has to do with his own pathos, some of the gravity of Lilith's taunts at the end will lose their nuance if you don't follow his story.

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What do you mean? Plucking the wings does nothing towards an angels immortality. If something it's just humiliation.

Angels and Demons die constantly. But they also reform constantly.

I think it also calls back to what Mephisto did to him; he ALSO ripped his wings off (and I still want to know HOW Inarius escaped hell and how his wings regrew and I wonder if Tyrael was involved).

[Kumorii]

I think it also calls back to what Mephisto did to him; he ALSO ripped his wings off (and I still want to know HOW Inarius escaped hell and how his wings regrew and I wonder if Tyrael was involved).

Isn't his "escape" Liliths doing?
Afaik Lilith and Inarius got in contact during his capture and torture and that's where she learned he was sick of the war as she was. They haven't explicitly stated it and I hope they do at some point, but to me it stands to reason she was in part of it. Would be difficult to create sanctuary and humans together if he was still capture.

Granted I haven't read the books, not my medium.

[Nymrohd]

Isn't his "escape" Liliths doing?
Afaik Lilith and Inarius got in contact during his capture and torture and that's where she learned he was sick of the war as she was. They haven't explicitly stated it and I hope they do at some point, but to me it stands to reason she was in part of it. Would be difficult to create sanctuary and humans together if he was still capture.

Granted I haven't read the books, not my medium.

This is their original escape when they formed Sanctuary. Much later the Sin War happened when Heaven and Hell fought over Sanctuary which was saved by the acts of Uldyssian, a powerful Nephalem who at the end of the War severed Inarius' bond to the Worldstone, whooped his ass and then banished the hosts of Heaven and Hell from sanctuary. Then realizing he and the rest of the Nephalem would destroy creation itself with their power, he unmade himself. At the end of the Sin War the Angiris Council and the Evils reached a truce and one of the terms of that truce was for Inarius to be handed over to Mephisto. Mephisto went really creative on Inarius

He bound Inarius with tremendous chains and slowly tore the wings from the back of the angel. Great barbed hooks were then used to stretch out his once glowing skin and his features were distorted by vile powers. Now, Inarius is said to be trapped in Hell within a chamber of mirrors, his eyelids torn from his face as he is forced to gaze upon his misshapen form for all eternity

And that's where we left him. How he got out of that is not really known.

[Kumorii]

This is their original escape when they formed Sanctuary. At the end of the Sin War the Angiris Council and the Evils reached a truce and one of the terms of that truce was for Inarius to be handed over to Mephisto. Mephisto went really creative on Inarius

Oh, that explains it. Thanks

[Nymrohd]

Oh, that explains it. Thanks

For me it is one of two lore issues that are just missing an explanation. First, how Inarius escaped. Second, what happened to the Nephalem. Honestly I would not be surprised if the second D3 expansion that was cancelled (it's tentative name was the King in the North, everything we saw from Kanai's cube and after were part of that xpac) ended up with the hero following the path of Uldyssian and rejecting their Nephalem nature because it was tearing reality apart (the D3 Hero is easily the strongest creature in the Diablo universe having defeated an incarnate of Tathtamet and Malthael empowered with all seven evils)

[Mehrunes]

Yeah, not really a fan of the ending. The PC turned into a drooling retard that, as Lilith aptly pointed out, made the mistake (repeatedly) of focusing their attention on her rather than the Prime Evils. Which are objectively the greater evil. And it'd be one thing if there was no Prime Evil involvement at all. But the PC repeatedly accepts help of fucking Mephisto against her.

When it was pointed numerous times by various characters that Mephisto is outright scared of what Lilith would do to him. Which would be outright destroying him as she consumed his essence. Which would be the first time a Prime Evil would actually be destroyed, because all the Soulstone fuckery of the Horadrim repeatedly failed to do anything other than kicking the can down the road. Including Kulle's Black Soulstone, which only resulted in Diablo moon-lighting as Tathamet for a week and nearly corrupting the High Heavens, and then Malthael using him as a battery to wipe out most of humankind.

Just look at Donan. He didn't die because of Lilith. He died because of what Mephisto decided is aesthetically pleasing architecture for his realm. Which includes piles of tormented humans fused together to form pillars (on a side note it was monumentally stupid for a Horadrim to just go touch something like that). With some more giant tormented souls serving as an ornamental piece above the main gate to his citadel.

Also, regarding the people pointing out how Lilith was doing evil things in the game. First of all, a lot of it is automatic and people getting high on hate due to her mere presence, which she can't exactly do anything about. As for the cannibals in Kehjistan, Lorath mentions them shortly after arriving. So chances are they were an already existing factor that Lilith simply used for her purposes because normal people aren't exactly in the business of helping demons. Finally, all we've seen in Diablo 4 was Lilith acting on a short time table and having to rush things. She needed to enter hell as soon as possible and for that she needed resources to unearth the gate to hell and to resurrect Astaroth to get passage to her father's citadel.

And just like Mephisto being afraid of the prospect of facing Lilith in this state, it was also pointed by at least Lorath that she is on a short time table before Mephisto fully reforms. And we've already seen Duriel and Ariandel reformed in this very game. And all of the evil things she's done were for that very purpose. Unearthing the hell gate, resurrecting Astaroth and creating his mount and so on. Meanwhile she empowered those who wanted to join her and left others alone. Including Donan, a Horadrim that was very much against her.

So what's the alternative? Kill Lilith and prevent her from putting an end to a Prime Evil once and for all and then just do more of the same thing that hasn't worked before, letting Prime Evils fuck Sanctuary sideways with explicitly hostile intentions? And wait for Malthael to reform into an archangel that's potentially even more of a genocidal fuck than he was? With new Inarius in tow now? Splendid plan. Now with a teenager with Mephisto's soulstone about to corrupt her in tow right in Sanctuary, once again giving a Prime Evil what they've wanted since the moment they learned about Sanctuary's existence.

And now that Malthael killed most of humans and the capital N Nephalem had been all but gone even before his attack, Sanctuary is the most vulnerable it's ever been, which is why Lilith decided to act and why Elias summoned her in the first place.

Meanwhile we've seen what Lilith was up to when she's not in a rush. Which was just wanting to be left the fuck alone by the Eternal Conflict, with things in Sanctuary starting to turn to shit only after Prime Evils learned of it and formed the Triune, which then triggered a conflict with Inarius' Cathedral of "let's cleanse what Inarius sees as a mistake".

And as has been already pointed out, even when she thought we'd been trapped in the Eye realm for eternity, and as such had no reason to lie to us, Lilith said she doesn't want to lead humanity on her own and that it should be a human's job (almost as if she was aware of her influence on humans in her vicinity). Only for us to once again team up with Mephisto feeding us BS about how Lilith needs to be stopped, all the while he was quaking in his gestation pod.

Finally, since Lilith is a demon, she's not dead anyway (as Diablo's case in D2 showed, even killing them in Hell doesn't do anything special), so we've achieved a grand total of jack shit yet again.

Isn't his "escape" Liliths doing?
Afaik Lilith and Inarius got in contact during his capture and torture and that's where she learned he was sick of the war as she was. They haven't explicitly stated it and I hope they do at some point, but to me it stands to reason she was in part of it. Would be difficult to create sanctuary and humans together if he was still capture.

Granted I haven't read the books, not my medium.

Inarius got imprisoned in hell as punishment for the creation of Sanctuary (as part of the deal between the Angiris Council and the Prime Evils regarding the fate of Sanctuary after the Sin War). By that time Lilith had already been banished (for the second time) to the Void. And she only got back the second time at the start of D4 with Elias' help.

[Nymrohd]

If Lilith absorbed Mephisto that would not remove a Prime Evil though. It would just make HER a Prime Evil. As for the outbreaks of cannibalism around her, it's not just Guuhlran. I doubt Navi at Nevesk was playing Mrs. Lovett before she met Lilith.

[Gaidax]

well, decided to actually follow the story. Just started in Act 2, not skipping cutscenes anymore. Did I miss to much that I should just restart? Or is there just "Lilith evil, lilith go raage" that I missed?

I don't know what you skipped, but IMO Act 1 is important for understanding of everything. In between Nyrelle, Rathma/Inarius and Lillith cutscenes - these are key characters introduced. Nyrelle is pretty important going forward too.

All the characters introduced in Act 1 will be heavily featured act 4 and forward.

I'd go as far as to suggest to replay Act 1 (just follow MSQ really and you done in like 2 hours), just so you get a more complete experience. And don't skip cutscenes, where are you even rushing to?

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I think it also calls back to what Mephisto did to him; he ALSO ripped his wings off (and I still want to know HOW Inarius escaped hell and how his wings regrew and I wonder if Tyrael was involved).

I'm pretty sure Mephisto let Inarius go with his (and everyone else's) whole 4D chess plays.

Mephisto even tells that he focused his anger, probably to use him as a way to get rid of Lillith, which did succeed in a way.

[Nymrohd]

I'm pretty sure Mephisto let Inarius go with his (and everyone else's) whole 4D chess plays.

Mephisto even tells that he focused his anger, probably to use him as a way to get rid of Lillith, which did succeed in a way.

And that would be a great reveal later down the line to show how deep Mephisto's plotting is which absolutely fits his character. Sadly though it is still not something that we know happened. It is a solid speculation.
And I am so happy that the focus is on Mephisto and not Diablo. Of the three Prime Evils, Diablo being the focus always felt so stupid since he has the least personality. Mephisto is the brilliant schemer, Baal is the campy psychopath. Diablo is just the silent brute or in D3 the generic villain spouting cliches.

[Gaidax]

Yeah, not really a fan of the ending. The PC turned into a drooling retard that, as Lilith aptly pointed out, made the mistake (repeatedly) of focusing their attention on her rather than the Prime Evils. Which are objectively the greater evil. And it'd be one thing if there was no Prime Evil involvement at all. But the PC repeatedly accepts help of fucking Mephisto against her.

I mean... On the contrary - they focused their attention on Mephisto first and foremost, putting him in a pokeball was a way to both stop the reforming process - the whole point of this decision was that he was a far greater threat.

PC just stayed behind to give the team enough time to GTFO with a soulstone and foiling her whole plan. Downing Lillith was just a bonus and a happy coincidence - it was not some pre-planned outcome.


I think the quoted statements is people' general disconnect from what the characters ingame know and what you know. You know you'd down Lillith ezpz duuuuh you're a big D MC ofc you do, it's a game yeah.

But the team there in their wildest dreams did not imagine you'd just pop Lillith solo right there. You remained there not to kill Lillith, but to stall her. You killing her was not a part of the plan.

Their whole plan, as any decent plan, revolved around safest best assumptions as far as you could do in these things. So they DID focus on fucking up Mephisto first while same time stalling Lillith and foiling her plan without assuming they actually do what frikkin' Inarius could not.

It WAS the best plan given the cards dealt.

And yes - they said themselves soulstone is not some surefire thing for all eternity - they dropped this line here and there indirectly, but it was the best weapon they had that would actually work now.

[Nymrohd]

And yes - they said themselves soulstone is not some surefire thing for all eternity - they dropped this line here and there indirectly, but it was the best weapon they had that would actually work now.

Nothing indirect about it. Donan tells you exactly how problematic and unsafe the process is.