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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    The 'evil' narrative shouldn't be handled unsustainably, there should be motivations, pragmatism, self reflection, etc that make it work with those who want the 'monsters but not evil' narrative.
    As someone who is attempting to write suitable dialogue for similar, it's not easy. Especially for showing differences and shades of evil. Megalomaniac, selfishness to the extreme, chaotic to the max, self-delusion, etc.
    Self-delusion is a big one though. "The greater good" bullshit that justifies almost anything. The lie one tells oneself the "I'm the hero in all this."

    ...sorry..rambling.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    As someone who is attempting to write suitable dialogue for similar, it's not easy. Especially for showing differences and shades of evil. Megalomaniac, selfishness to the extreme, chaotic to the max, self-delusion, etc.
    Self-delusion is a big one though. "The greater good" bullshit that justifies almost anything. The lie one tells oneself the "I'm the hero in all this."

    ...sorry..rambling.
    Yeah but a lot of that is gonna be setting dependent. For WoW it should honestly be pretty easy, the Forsaken should be very conscious of doing stuff that unites the world against them or alienates their allies.
    Twas brillig

  3. #43
    Herald of the Titans Urti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    People saying there is no sense or reason to be a conflict between factions is completely oblivious to the lore
    Fu@#ing LAWL.
    Bro, the last 2 decades of Warcraft "lore" has literally been a nonstop parade of reasons why the Horde and Alliance should grow up, get over their s#!t, and focus on the common threats. The Scourge, the Legion, the Old Gods, the primalists, the Void, literally ad nauseum.

    Even the expansions with explicit faction conflict, like BoA, only used it as a plot device to justify setting up yet more "big bads" for us to hold hands and beat the dogs#!t out of for lewts.
    "Stop being a giant trolling asshole." - Boubouille
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  4. #44
    no, a pure HvA is out of question.
    they might start a fake faction conflict by making most of the Alliance side with the Light invaders, while the Horde is working with the rebels to put a stop to the zealotry.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    There is no reason or sense in having peace in the first place
    Basically every expansion since forever, the factions have "worked together" to end the big world threat. There is absolutely no reason having war though, it makes absolutely no sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  6. #46
    a new take might be massive supply chain disruptions that force some to revert to stealing and killing to eat and it devolves into faction wars. could flesh out cooking as well.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  7. #47
    Pandaren Monk ThatsOurEric's Avatar
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    No, because it's fucking boring, it had it's moment in the sun, and it's time for the world to evolve.

    You don't need a war between the two factions for there to be a "war" in Warcraft. We've been warring
    with other malevolent factions just fine without Horde vs Alliance.

  8. #48

  9. #49
    Hopefully (and eventually too) we will.

    After all, this is world of WARcraft. Not WOKEcraft. /spit

    Altho, I'd rather focus on some "smaller-scale" conflicts.

    Like, it would be awesome to see goblins assisting defias brotherhood where humans would intervene and puff- new battleground/quests/lore/stuff.

    SO MUCH POTENTIAL was lost in Ashenvale/Darkshore for an AMAZING battleground/lore development (Night Elves vs undead/orcs)

    Or Night Elves pushing into the Azshara thus finally giving us Azshara Crater Battleground (which is in game files since VANILLA)

  10. #50
    Legendary! SinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    Hopefully (and eventually too) we will.

    After all, this is world of WARcraft. Not WOKEcraft. /spit

    Altho, I'd rather focus on some "smaller-scale" conflicts.

    Like, it would be awesome to see goblins assisting defias brotherhood where humans would intervene and puff- new battleground/quests/lore/stuff.

    SO MUCH POTENTIAL was lost in Ashenvale/Darkshore for an AMAZING battleground/lore development (Night Elves vs undead/orcs)

    Or Night Elves pushing into the Azshara thus finally giving us Azshara Crater Battleground (which is in game files since VANILLA)
    poor triggered Snowflake
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  11. #51
    It's been played out and they did a pretty rough job both times resorting to complete character assassinations to make their stories.
    I'd rather they dismantled the factions and focused on smaller scale regional conflicts and border disputes instead of the hamfisted faction conflict.
    Perhaps have a story where both factions hold a conference to dismantle the factions and agree upon rules of engagement for future conflicts. Arguments for or against say void magic or necromancy and spoils of war etc.
    Now Tauren and night elves can resume diplomatic relations and stories can develop with local conflicts that make sense.
    Overpowered heroes will be restricted to defending azeroth from external threats only such as guardian of tirisfal, malfurion and thrall etc.

    The faction affiliated races will remember their allies without being restricted from making new ones or being forced to defend them.

    If they want to do the faction war story again in the future begin with an action that breaks the accord and have each group rally to their chosen side, for the sake of the conflict you can pick either side. Races on each side can be mixed up like a nature vs tech war or light vs void or whatever.

  12. #52
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    We had a whole expansion based on it, people didn't like it much

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    Nahh, that's discrimination. Can't have people waging war based on different skin colors or cultures
    Why was i infracted? This is exactly what it is.

  14. #54
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    It stopped making sense along time ago, they will probably shoehorn conflict into WoW eventually again one way or another.

  15. #55
    I've posted long before that at a certain level the factions should be seen as growing up and beyond such hatred.
    But that was before Blizz wrote in the Nightelf Holocaust. Until that narrative plays out there should be no peace at all.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    One of my main immersive things that pulled me into WoW was the unique Horde Vs Alliance factor, no MMORPG back in the days had that.
    Nowadays we lean more to a neutral style faction with guilds and groups being faction wide.

    do you think we ever return to the glory days of Horde Vs Alliance or are we going to see more neutral style expansions with no conflict and more focus on 1 specific enemy and capital that we all share togheter?
    We don't need made up conflicts, sorry. They look silly. If Blizzard would want to do it again after fails of MOP and BFA - then they should completely separate PVP from PVE, because I don't want to see this s**t in my PVE quests.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2023-06-08 at 06:22 AM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  17. #57
    The lore has always done faction conflict horribly so I hope not. The only faction conflict that's actually fun is when players create it themselves, in BGs or world PvP.

  18. #58
    Not the original alliance vs horde. We'll have a new faction vs a new faction...maybe a third faction added in.

  19. #59
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    They have to mix things up a bit, and so eventually some sort of conflict will likely make a return. In fact getting along for a while and then having a surprise betrayal by one side or the other (like Calia did for the Alliance in early BFA), is an easy conflict storyline.

    The game was significantly more fun prior to the changes towards the end of wotlk, when a lot of the homogenization/nerfing of alliance v. horde started. That's when the change to be able to roll H and A on the same realm went live and killed faction identity. Flying in Cata then killed off 95% of wpvp. I kind of feel bad for the people that started playing after that, and have the mistaken impression that those changes were a good thing for the game. They weren't and it's unfortunate that they missed that period of wow because it was a lot of fun. The game is fundamentally different now, more than some people maybe realize. Far more focused on pve and grinding the same boring pve events endlessly now, vs. good pve AND dynamic pvp that would happen naturally all over the wow world. That would happen all the time on small and large scales, just 4-5 people fighting around a quest hub, or 80 people fighting H guild v. A guild outside a Raid summoning stone. That went from a daily happening to almost nonexistent.

  20. #60
    The comments here reinforce my belief that Blizz is indeed coring out a playerbase it wants.

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