Druids for all races -- What druid forms are you looking forward to?

[Teriz]

Blizzard could've easily allowed dracthyr players to pick a different race than "male BE/female human" for their visages. They chose otherwise, probably to further showcase how dracthyrs are different from actual dragons.

Easily? Given all of the customization options available to the race? No. Further, a race that can look like every other race in the game comes with a host of issues.

It's not a limitation of the game. It's a conscious choice from the developers.

Due to technical limitations.

TBC had two characters on their expansion box cover art. BfA had two characters.

Neither of those expansions introduced a new class.

We don't need them to be in the cover art. Having the BBEG on the cover art would've worked. After all, we don't have the new playabe goblins and worgen races on the cover art for Cataclysm.

So we need to make exceptions for Bards because they can't measure up?

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Then that's not fair at all since you're excluding the aesthetics of Musicians in WoW that a Bard could be based on that isn't ETC. There are no technical limitations there, only your absurd opinion that ETC is the only one that they could base a Bard's aesthetics around.

If you're utilizing the ETC's aesthetics, it'd be rather hard to deviate. The core concept of a class remains persistent throughout a class' thematic. You can't have ETC in one spec and a classical Bard in another. It wouldn't work since specs share common abilities. If one spec is headbanging to metal music, ALL specs will be headbanging to metal music,.

Or you just put the next big bad on the cover instead, which has worked for numerous expansions as well.

Again, making exceptions for the Bard because as a concept it can't measure up to the criteria.

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Yes, and I said you were right on that... But just on that. Nothing else you predicted on 3rd Evoker spec turned to be true.

That was the only prediction that mattered, since my personal preferences weren't predictions.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If you're utilizing the ETC's aesthetics, it'd be rather hard to deviate. The core concept of a class remains persistent throughout a class' thematic. You can't have ETC in one spec and a classical Bard in another. It wouldn't work since specs share common abilities. If one spec is headbanging to metal music, ALL specs will be headbanging to metal music,.
.

Blizzard track record really doesn’t support this.

Monks utilize brewmasters aesthetics from WC3 but deviates into two other specs with little overlap other then teas being “brews”, priest and mages are also two classes that took different thematics from WC3 and put them together with shadow/holy and frost/fire.

All a bard class would need is minimum overlap of ability’s which could be any thing as small as a shout ability string strumming or a channeled song to play, all of which would fit fine in a metal based spec and a classic based spec.

[Triceron]

If you're utilizing the ETC's aesthetics, it'd be rather hard to deviate. The core concept of a class remains persistent throughout a class' thematic. You can't have ETC in one spec and a classical Bard in another. It wouldn't work since specs share common abilities. If one spec is headbanging to metal music, ALL specs will be headbanging to metal music,.

Er, plenty of classes have outlier concepts folded into them.

Shadow Priests use void and Old God magic. The closest hero to associate that with is probably Cho'gall. So yes, a Holy themed Priest class can have a single spec that lets you play as a Old God magic user without Cho'galls theme and aesthetics permeating the entire class for it to be possible.

Imagine how absurd it'd be if someone said Shadow Priest using Old God magic could only be possible if ALL specs only used Old God magic. Not true at all; they can have a handful of void related abilities while Holy magic would permeate the other specs. Holy and Disc don't need to tap into the powers of Old Gods to heal.

For a Bard having multiple specs based on different music themes, everyone would know these divergent themes are all connected through the vast diversity of Music and its ability to boost morale of allies and demoralize foes.

If you wanna talk about Minstrels and Warsinger specs having some headbanging ability or using power chords, then sure. But they don't all have to be doing it to metal music. Diversity is the whole point of having specializations.

A Bard's theme is Music, not Heavy Metal. That's where you get too caught up in your own bias. You equate them being one and the same, when the themes sre much more general, just like 'Shadow' for Priests isn't only Old God powers, but also a duality of Light and Darkness.

[Teriz]

Blizzard track record really doesn’t support this.

Monks utilize brewmasters aesthetics from WC3 but deviates into two other specs with little overlap other then teas being “brews”, priest and mages are also two classes that took different thematics from WC3 and put them together with shadow/holy and frost/fire.

All a bard class would need is minimum overlap of ability’s which could be any thing as small as a shout ability string strumming or a channeled song to play, all of which would fit fine in a metal based spec and a classic based spec.

The difference is that you can take that approach with the Monk class due to the nature of the class itself. It's primary function is martial arts, and it could be argued that the original hero it was based on; Chen Stormstout, had minimal martial arts abilities and mostly Brewmaster abilities. In addition, you could remove the Brewmaster abilities themselves and still be rather true to main concept of the Pandaren doing Pandaren martial arts. The Monk class simply gives the designer enough leeway to be able to move a bit away from the Brewmaster core.

The issue with the ETC is that more would have to be taken from the base concept than what was taken from the Brewmaster with monks. The ETC is more likely to wind up more similar to Demon Hunters, since like Demon Hunters, the ETC is very much a Blizzard invention. Deviating too far from the core concept and the hero character would cause problems within the class' thematics. You may even see a scenario where the ETC is also only a two spec class because of this. You could have a situation where a spec is playing softer music instead of heavy metal, but they're still going to be using a guitar weapon.

Example:



And that's a mace.

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Er, plenty of classes have outlier concepts folded into them.

Shadow Priests use void and Old God magic. The closest hero to associate that with is probably Cho'gall. So yes, a Holy themed Priest class can have a single spec that lets you play as a Old God magic user without Cho'galls theme and aesthetics permeating the entire class for it to be possible.

Imagine how absurd it'd be if someone said Shadow Priest using Old God magic could only be possible if ALL specs only used Old God magic. Not true at all; they can have a handful of void related abilities while Holy magic would permeate the other specs. Holy and Disc don't need to tap into the powers of Old Gods to heal.

Too be fair, that's not really a deviation from the theme of a Priests. You have Priests that worship the light, and you have Priests that worship the Void. Both are priests, so the thematic is intact despite the magic schools being on opposite ends of the spectrum. Sort of like Yin and Yang. Discipline btw is traditionally the median between those two extremes.

For a Bard having multiple specs based on different music themes, everyone would know these divergent themes are all connected through the vast diversity of Music and its ability to boost morale of allies and demoralize foes.

If you wanna talk about Minstrels and Warsinger specs having some headbanging ability or using power chords, then sure. But they don't all have to be doing it to metal music. Diversity is the whole point of having specializations.

You can have diverse forms of music as long as the ETC's core theme is still present. I'm simply saying you're not going to be able to get away with a Headbanging tauren on one side, and a traditional bard wearing tights on the other.

Anyway, no more need to derail this thread. You are all free to have the last word here.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The issue with the ETC is that more would have to be taken from the base concept than what was taken from the Brewmaster with monks.

No, that’s just what you’d like the concept to be.

Nothing stops blizzard from Going the exact route they did with monks and focus just on music like they do martial arts for monks and only have one spec tied to the “hero” in question while the other two have minimum ties.

[Triceron]

Too be fair, that's not really a deviation from the theme of a Priests. You have Priests that worship the light, and you have Priests that worship the Void. Both are priests,

Which is why it's so damning that your argument here is akin to saying 'All Priests would be Old God worshippers if they had any spec based on using any Old God powers'.

We both know the argument is bogus, you just don't want to admit to it.

You can have diverse forms of music as long as the ETC's core theme is still present. I'm simply saying you're not going to be able to get away with a Headbanging tauren on one side, and a traditional bard wearing tights on the other.

Being present is fine. We can both agree here.

But your definition of Heavy Metal themes being present extends to arguing that 'All specs need to use Guitar Axes', 'All specs need to use Heavy Metal', 'Expansion themed on Heavy Metal is unlikely'. And nothing about a Bard class has to be centered around that design.

You're effectively saying Musicians of different types can't have any association to each other at all. It's quite a headscratcher.

A Headbanging Tauren and a prancing minstrel would be centered sround the common theme of playing music to bolster allies. What is difficult for you to accept here? They're all musicians.

A player Night Elf Priest of Elune could choose to specialize in Old God powers for a dungeon run. They are still the same Priest Player character. Thematic incongruities of a single character taking up wildly different identities through a new spec already exists in the game. There is no reason to hold ETC/Heavy Metal to some higher standard for the sake of arguing against a broader 'Musician' theme.

[Ielenia]

Easily? Given all of the customization options available to the race? No.

Yes, easily. Add a new drop-down menu in the character creation screen for the dracthyr's visage where you select any of the mortal races. Done. Not to mention the current customization given to the race doesn't negate this.

Further, a race that can look like every other race in the game comes with a host of issues.

Such as? I'm listening.

Due to technical limitations.

Technical limitation that literally do not exist. The state of the dracthyr's visage customization is what it is because Blizzard wants it to be like that, not because of any "technical limitations". That's like saying the dracthyr doesn't have a fast running or sneak movement animations "because of technical limitations".

Neither of those expansions introduced a new class.

Irrelevant. This is to counter your claim that "box cover art only features one character".

So we need to make exceptions for Bards because they can't measure up?

There is literally zero need for exceptions, since the Wrath already set the tone. After all, we have the expansion's BBEG on the cover, which is the Lich King. It's not the DK hero character at the time, Bolvar Fordragon, that is on the cover.

[username993720]

Which isn't possible, so a Crypt Lord class is the next best option. Also there's a possible Azjol-Nerub expansion in WoW's future.

It can be a skin for druids.
How does one affect the other? Who said we need a spider class?
Where are you getting that info about a future Azjol-Nerub expansion?

Edit: i don't get it. I thought you were content with getting an Evoker class. Or, does the thirst for a new class got you again?

Didn't find any images of it, but i preffer kimbul from zandalar personally

And, anyway, i still think a green lion/tiger with tusks would be dope as fuck

Kimbul is a Tiger. And the original is Shirvallah. Search avatar of Bethekk.

Anyway, a green lion feels so unnatural, like the Orc skin of Rexxar in HotS which applies to Misha as well.

[Teriz]

It can be a skin for druids.

Nah. Blizzard would never reskin an entire class to simply give them something like that.

How does one affect the other? Who said we need a spider class?
Where are you getting that info about a future Azjol-Nerub expansion?

The Crypt Lord/Anub 'Arak is a WC3 and HotS hero connected to Nerubians and Azjol Nerub. If we're going there as an expansion, it would make sense for Blizzard to make him and the nerubians playable in some form.

That said, it could just be a future raid.

As for info, Blizzard stated that after Zalarek Caverns, Blizzard wanted to do more underground areas in the future. That led to speculation about Undermine or Azjol Nerub. Additionally, these were found in Zalarek Cavern in 10.1;

https://www.wowhead.com/item=205462/...nerubian-capsa

Edit: i don't get it. I thought you were content with getting an Evoker class. Or, does the thirst for a new class got you again?

Both. I'm always interested in the possibility of a new class, but I'm perfectly fine with Evokers, especially after the reveal of the third spec.

[Shadowferal]

Anyway, a green lion feels so unnatural, like the Orc skin of Rexxar in HotS which applies to Misha as well.

Pop culture reference. "Battle cat" from He-Man.
Such references used to be a staple for WoW.

[username993720]

Nah. Blizzard would never reskin an entire class to simply give them something like that.

It's merely red aesthetics, already presented by Nightmare Druids in Legion.

The Crypt Lord/Anub 'Arak is a WC3 and HotS hero connected to Nerubians and Azjol Nerub. If we're going there as an expansion, it would make sense for Blizzard to make him and the nerubians playable in some form.

There are other WC3 Heroes with a HotS character representation. Why would there be an entire expansion about an underground zone? That sounds depressing. I know they planned more for the Wrath of the Lich King dungeon, with wall climbing mounts, but that's kinda stretching it.

That said, it could just be a future raid.

It could be the zone they planned for Wrath.

As for info, Blizzard stated that after Zalarek Caverns, Blizzard wanted to do more underground areas in the future. That led to speculation about Undermine or Azjol Nerub. Additionally, these were found in Zalarek Cavern in 10.1;

https://www.wowhead.com/item=205462/...nerubian-capsa

Weird. I don't see the hype around underground zones unless it is a dungeon or something.

Both. I'm always interested in the possibility of a new class, but I'm perfectly fine with Evokers, especially after the reveal of the third spec.

Since when are you hooked on Nerubians, Dreadlords and such? Wasn't your thing in the past.

Pop culture reference. "Battle cat" from He-Man.
Such references used to be a staple for WoW.

There's a difference between a small reference and integrating something directly into a class.

[Syegfryed]

Kimbul is a Tiger. And the original is Shirvallah. Search avatar of Bethekk.

That is ugly as hell though, dunno fi is due the old model, but its rly bad.

Anyway, a green lion feels so unnatural, like the Orc skin of Rexxar in HotS which applies to Misha as well.

well, turning annimals and having green tusked people and other races already unnatural as fuck dude, duno why you think this is stepping too far when we literally have green tigers in pandaria and other places just fine

[username993720]

That is ugly as hell though, dunno fi is due the old model, but its rly bad.

Old model. But, it's true to what a panther is. Unlike that weird ass cat that is ashamane.

well, turning annimals and having green tusked people and other races already unnatural as fuck dude, duno why you think this is stepping too far when we literally have green tigers in pandaria and other places just fine

Orcs are mythological creatures. Felines exist in real life.
I'm not saying nail the depiction 1:1, but come on... i don't want rainbow cats. By the way, cats are usually pink under the fur, so their skin color is not their fur color. Fur color should match body hair, which would most likely be like your head hair.

[Syegfryed]

Orcs are mythological creatures. Felines exist in real life.
I'm not saying nail the depiction 1:1, but come on... i don't want rainbow cats.

Tigers in chinese myhtos, do appear as different colors as well:

After the advent of the theory of Five Elements, some Chinese myths arose about five differently colored tigers who balanced the energy of the universe: a black tiger governing water and the winter, a verdant tiger governing earth and the spring, a red tiger governing fire and the summer, a white tiger governing metal and autumn, and a yellow tiger ruling the others

And its not going to be rainbow, even if already is.

By the way, cats are usually pink under the fur, so their skin color is not their fur color. Fur color should match body hair, which would most likely be like your head hair.

then, you realize its even worse right? because orc hair color is actually a mess with different colors.

I rather have a green lion/tiger with the mane matching their hair color

[username993720]

Tigers in chinese myhtos, do appear as different colors as well:



And its not going to be rainbow, even if already is.

Wow. Didn't know that.

then, you realize its even worse right? because orc hair color is actually a mess with different colors.

I rather have a green lion/tiger with the mane matching their hair color

It's usually black\white in media. Your characrer creation is more of a joke.

[Nathanyel]

I rather have a green lion/tiger with the mane matching their hair color

Druid Form fur colors haven't been tied to hair color for a long time.

Similarly, we don't need special forms emulating "what if this race had come up with Druidism on their own?", either use the first Artifact row as a neutral default, at least for Cat & Bear, or create a neutral set.
The saved artist time could then be used for new form variants available to all races.

[Inoculate]

TBF, we can't look like Chromie and Ebonhorn due to technical and gameplay limitations of a playable class. Blizzard explains these limitations away as Dracthyr visage forms being different than Dragon visage forms, but that's all simply due to the limits of the game. That doesn't alter the facts of what the origins of the class are, and what heroes the class is based on.




Only one can be on a cover of an expansion. You could have put Wrathion, Kalecgos, Chromie, Ysera, or Nozdormu on an expansion and it would have worked out fine. Deathwing was already on the cover of an expansion. The only "Bard" character in WoW that works in that fashion is the ETC.

Again, don't shoot the messenger, that's just the way it is.

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You're being petty. I predicted that WoW would release an Evoker 3rd spec mid-expansion. That's what happened.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day and you just piggybacked others work, didn't trailblaze any of the theories.

[username993720]

Druid Form fur colors haven't been tied to hair color for a long time.

Similarly, we don't need special forms emulating "what if this race had come up with Druidism on their own?", either use the first Artifact row as a neutral default, at least for Cat & Bear, or create a neutral set.
The saved artist time could then be used for new form variants available to all races.

Homogenizing forms is a bad idea.

[DatToffer]

Druid Form fur colors haven't been tied to hair color for a long time.

Similarly, we don't need special forms emulating "what if this race had come up with Druidism on their own?", either use the first Artifact row as a neutral default, at least for Cat & Bear, or create a neutral set.
The saved artist time could then be used for new form variants available to all races.

I'd rather they not do that. I would actually very much hate that.

[Nathanyel]

Homogenizing forms is a bad idea.

It's a necessary shortcut to not design forms for every race. Plus there is precedent, the Feral & Guardian Artifact forms weren't exactly race-based either, and we were limited to them for a whole expansion. Instead, we got a whole lot of cool neutral variations.