4pc t9 or budget junk at 264 ilevel for resto?

[PriestLuna]

Title says my scenario.

I have 4pc tier9 as resto, 3 of them 245 and 1 232. I also have a set of random 251-264 ilevel gear to fill those same slots. Each set would give me approximately similar haste, but of course my spellpower and other stats will generall be lower with the t9 on.

Is it way worth my time to wear the t9 set still while raiding? Mostly 10man raiding here as well.

[Deleted]

Tbh I think the ilvl 251-264 would be better

it would give you more gearscore anyways, and we all know that all servers has been infected with the gearscore plague...

[Cerelli]

what is the difference in spellpower between your T9 gear and your random ICC gear?

[Arctagon]

it would give you more gearscore anyways, and we all know that all servers has been infected with the gearscore plague...

GearScore is overrated bullshit, no matter how look on it. I don't even have 5,2k GearScore, but still I usually beat most of the 5,7k-5,9k GearScore players when raiding, depending on the fight. Perhaps it's because I have kept the T9 bonus?

[emni]

I'd say test it out and see what gives you better HPS and overall what makes you feel like you handle damage better.

Healing isn't as straightforward as DPS, sometimes you just have to see what you personally are more comfortable with.

[doomchken]

I use 4 piece T9 245 still and always rock the healing charts with other people considerably more geared then myself. However one key thing to consider in your situation is 10 man or 25 man because if you like doing 25 mans alot the T10 is what you should be getting for sure. You should however look through older threads or use the search function becasue i remember having in depth discussions on such issues previously on these forums

[Myrrar]

If you are in reg modes, the crit from T9 in 10 mans mostly goes to overheal. If you have a good solid set of 264 gear, which if it has about the same haste and more everything else it is, I would switch.

If you get into fights where your raid is constantly low and the crit would help, switch. But in general the higher gear will be better.

If you are in 25s at all, you will want your 4 piece T10. But in 10s, esp regs, you really just want the most stats you can get.

[Archimand]

i whould say go for the higher sp the 4 piece t9 isnt that great at all you should get gloves and pants tier 10 and stick with them will be way better for the other parts go for off pieces

[Whydrood]

Ok, any post that have the words "gearscore" or "overheal" are bullshit and you shouldn't listen to them, and you should probably ignore that poster. Druids usually don't have an issue with overheals unless we are spamming rejuv on a fight like Saurfang. I can make the argument that stacking more spellpower until you have 4k rejuv ticks is going to increase your overheals much more then having a 4pt9 critting 50% of your rejuv's for 4k - but I won't because I know my class and I know we don't need to worry about overheal - if we did we would stack haste over SP.

The SP loss (which is only 100 or so difference between 4pt9.5 and 4pt10) you get from using the 4pt9 vs the 251-264 off pieces are negated by the Rejuv crits which are going to hit harder then your rejuv's in off pieces.

Until you can get at LEAST a 2pt10 stick with the 4pt9. Once you get the 2pt10 then it will be safe to drop the 4p t9 for the offset pieces.

The 4p t10 isn't all that great. The extra rejuv accounts for about 5% heals over the course of a long fight, which accounts to a loss in healing if you aren't haste capped. Until you are haste capped (without CF) with the tier gloves, legs, shoulders, and helm getting the 4p t10 won't be worth it for you. Stick with offset 251-264 gear, and keep the 2p t10.

[Cerelli]

Ok, any post that have the words "gearscore" or "overheal" are bullshit and you shouldn't listen to them, and you should probably ignore that poster. Druids usually don't have an issue with overheals unless we are spamming rejuv on a fight like Saurfang. I can make the argument that stacking more spellpower until you have 4k rejuv ticks is going to increase your overheals much more then having a 4pt9 critting 50% of your rejuv's for 4k - but I won't because I know my class and I know we don't need to worry about overheal - if we did we would stack haste over SP.

The SP loss (which is only 100 or so difference between 4pt9.5 and 4pt10) you get from using the 4pt9 vs the 251-264 off pieces are negated by the Rejuv crits which are going to hit harder then your rejuv's in off pieces.

Until you can get at LEAST a 2pt10 stick with the 4pt9. Once you get the 2pt10 then it will be safe to drop the 4p t9 for the offset pieces.

The 4p t10 isn't all that great. The extra rejuv accounts for about 5% heals over the course of a long fight, which accounts to a loss in healing if you aren't haste capped. Until you are haste capped (without CF) with the tier gloves, legs, shoulders, and helm getting the 4p t10 won't be worth it for you. Stick with offset 251-264 gear, and keep the 2p t10.

80% of this post is bullshit and should be ignored. See how this works?

T10 set bonus is amazing for almost any 25 man fight. It accounts for far more than 5% healing done in almost every 25 man fight. More like 7-10% healing.

Over healing is a very valid argument to make. Other than an aura fight i guarantee that we wont have a hot producing less than 60% overhealing through the duration of a fight. That is the nature of the beast since blizz allowed hots to continue ticking at full health.

[kavon425]

Druids usually don't have an issue with overheals unless we are spamming rejuv on a fight like Saurfang.

I stopped reading after that. So much BS.

Oh and on topic, I would listen to Myrrar.

[Whydrood]

80% of this post is bullshit and should be ignored. See how this works?

Now you are being petty.

T10 set bonus is amazing for almost any 25 man fight. It accounts for far more than 5% healing done in almost every 25 man fight. More like 7-10% healing.

Hmm, not really. Echoes of Light (the proc from Abacus) does just as much healing as the 4pt10 rejuv. Stick that in your item budget pipe and smoke it.

Over healing is a very valid argument to make. Other than an aura fight i guarantee that we wont have a hot producing less than 60% overhealing through the duration of a fight. That is the nature of the beast since blizz allowed hots to continue ticking at full health.

Over healing is not even close to being a valid argument for a druid. Unless you are running out of mana, or healing people you shouldn't be healing (i.e. those at full health who aren't taking damage), or god forbid pulling heal aggro, then your over heals aren't an issue. If you are having an issue with over healing, then you need to rethink your gemming. There is a reason Holy Light Paladins don't stack spellpower. Resto druids don't have that issue. If you do, you are doing it wrong.

Let me clarify: Telling someone to drop a 4pt9 because rejuv will crit for 4k and it will be an over heal but then telling them to go ahead and stack as much spellpower to make your hots tick for more is just redonkulous (especially coming from Myrrar - the guy who pushes Rapid Rejuv glyph to anyone who asks for advice). Do druids over heal? Yes we do. Why do druids not care if we overheal? Because we are anticipating that person taking damage, so we PREHOT so when they do take damage, we got them covered. So most of our over heals are a result of the druid doing their job. Not because of their gear choices.

[Cerelli]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...19#Seriousface
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...=5744#Sulliwan
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q...6&e=1602#Yrina
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...87%D0%B8%D0%BA

that was all of 2 minutes worth of searching.
The numbers seem to disagree on your whole 5% statement. there are tons of instances where T10 will far excede the amount of healing that you attribute to it, so you might want to rethink your blanket fact statements in the future. put that in your pipe and smoke it.

and since you seem to be in the mood to be calling people out. Myrrar is and has been a much more productive and influential poster on this forum than you ever have IMO. Almost every post you make I have to resist the urge to call you out on something. but often time these pissing matches arent worth my time so i pass on them.

[Myrrar]

Edit: Ahh you posted before me.

@whydrood
Not true. On my last logs for 12/12Hm boss kills, including the non aura bosses, Rejuv proc was 6.4% of my healing.
Trauma was 5.7% of my healing.


If people can so easily agree, no stats can take the place of trauma, how can they argue T10? The stat up you will get from any staff will be much more than switch to non-set pieces. There is a reason EVERY SINGLE endgame druid uses T10. There is no debate in the endgame community. Look at EJ, top druid blogs, pretty much every forum including official. They all use T10.



Also,
1) I'm not a guy...obv.
2) I don't push RR on anyone outside of 10s at haste cap and 25s if you have 2 druids. Pretty sure that's not everyone.
3) I said if his crit-ticks are going to overheal, making them useless, to drop the 4 piece. Why? Because he will get more of a healing output. On fights where you are spot healing, esp in REG 10S like he said, you don't need 4 piece.

Did stacking SP to make your hots do more ever come in any of my posts? No. Stop making things up and bringing me into this.

I said :

If you are in reg modes, the crit from T9 in 10 mans mostly goes to overheal. If you have a good solid set of 264 gear, which if it has about the same haste and more everything else it is, I would switch.

If you get into fights where your raid is constantly low and the crit would help, switch. But in general the higher gear will be better.

If you are in 25s at all, you will want your 4 piece T10. But in 10s, esp regs, you really just want the most stats you can get.

Now, stop being stubborn. By using 4 piece 245 and 232 is ONLY helping your rejuvs. In 10s, you shouldn't just be using rejuvs. If you see that it is mostly going to overheal, NOT REJUV IN GENERAL, but your crits are giving you more overheal than not, that means you can not have 4 piece and you will still be keeping people at 100% with your normal rejuv.

In turn, meaning you can drop your 4 piece, and take other stats to buff ALL your other spells. I'm obviously not stupid. I'm pretty sure I've proved my experience throughout these forums. If you think I ment if you are overhealing with rejuvs thats bad then you obviously do think I'm dumb. Yes, you are going to overheal, obviously. If you are overhealing enough with 4 piece that you do not need the set and will still be keeping people close to 100% you don't need to kill your stats for it.

[Whydrood]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...19#Seriousface
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x...=5744#Sulliwan
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q...6&e=1602#Yrina
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...87%D0%B8%D0%BA

that was all of 2 minutes worth of searching.
The numbers seem to disagree on your whole 5% statement. there are tons of instances where T10 will far excede the amount of healing that you attribute to it, so you might want to rethink your blanket fact statements in the future. put that in your pipe and smoke it.

and since you seem to be in the mood to be calling people out. Myrrar is and has been a much more productive and influential poster on this forum than you ever have IMO. Almost every post you make I have to resist the urge to call you out on something. but often time these pissing matches arent worth my time so i pass on them.

Aura fight, Aura Fight, Aura Fight, Aura Fight. Point made.

@Myrrar and everyone else posting endgame HM advice for someone who is asking when to upgrade to t10 from t9, look back to when you were in the gear that the OP is in. Did you immediately give up your 4pt9 or did you pretty much clear the first 3 wings in 4pt9?

Yes for endgame raiding 4pt10 is going to be better. I never said it wasn't. But I think since you do nothing but hardmodes anymore you forgot what healing without ready access to BIS gear is like. If you read what I wrote, I told him how to progress his gear forward until he could afford to lose the 4pt9 (wait til he gets at least a 2pt10). I even told him when he could afford to get the 4pt10 (when he is at haste cap with shoulders, helm, pants and gloves without CF). You folks however seem to be still linking logs from 25m HM's, which in his current gear he isn't even close to getting into.

Argue these points all you want. For someone who is looking to upgrade from 4pt9 to 251 and 264 pieces over healing is not even on the scope of their radar.

Adding a few links of my own, notice how your advice (Myrrar) actually mirrors my original post on when to actually drop the 4pt9.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...due-voa25-legs
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...nd-match-Resto...
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Resto-T10-4pc

[Cerelli]

fair enough
marrowgar
LDW
saurfang
festergut
rotface
PP
Princes
BQL
Sindy


9/12 loggable 25 man hard mode fights with regular 5%+ T10 healing. The lowest T10 healing done on any of the fights listed was ~6%. Obviously you can come back with just as many fights where the bonus didn't live up to what i've linked, but that isn't the point of this discussion. You said that T10 "isn't all that great", but honestly what do you expect? A set bonus that accounts for 25% of your healing by itself? Or an average of ~5-7% increase just like all the other classes/spec get from their bonuses.

[Whydrood]

Again, at the posters gear level, dropping the 264 gear that he has, to get a 4pt10 (251) isnt going to be "all that great". And once again you are linking 25 HM's. Do I really need to Start linking fights that the poster is going to possibly be healing?

Sure why not:
10n Lord marrowgar: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7...=16614&e=16733 - 2% of healing done
25n Lord Marrowgar: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...5/?s=676&e=837 - 4% of healing done.
25n LDW - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=2505&e=2665 - 3.3%
25n Saurfang (1 healed by a druid) http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...?s=8742&e=8902 - 5.8% of healing done
25n Fester (Aura fight) http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4297&e=4544 - 6.7% (notice how much more trauma did then the 4pt10?)
25n Rotface - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3409&e=3588 - 3.8%
25n PP - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4723&e=5173 - 6.8%
25n BP - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4463&e=4690 - 7.5%
25n BQL - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/c...?s=6888&e=7182 5.4%
25n Sindy - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...?s=6001&e=6452 - 7.4%
25n LK - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q...?s=2035&e=2854 - 3.6%

Average bonus healing for 25 normal based on the logs posted: 5.43% Guess my estimate of 5% wasn't as far off as you thought.

Noticing a pattern yet?

[Myrrar]

My 1st post is exactly what you should do in 10 regs. I only started talking about 25s when T10 was brought up.

I have 2 resto druids. I play(well, used to play) one in 10s(6/12HMs) and 25s (7/12 reg mode..lol), than my endgame druid. My old one was my main before PvE to PvP transfers were up. By the time they were my main now already had gear and was in my current guild.

Now, I can admit, I don't do reg modes as much anymore and I quit playing her a while ago. She was never a priority raiding wise and I'm not surrounded in the casual beginning raiding scene.
But my points are still valid.

(inc random #s) If a person has 5000hp and your reg rejuv will heal them to 4500, or you can have 4 pieces of bad gear to make them do 5500, I would drop the 4 pieces of bad gear.

The extra SP from the 264 gear will probably buff your rejuvs enough to make up for the 500hp, you don't need the extra 1k. Instead, the stats will increase your healing on all your other spells.

Like I said, on aura fights use 4 piece until you see you no longer need it, and if you see your crits are still helping obviously don't drop it. But in the case that you have a really good set of offset gear and you don't need the crits there is no reason not to switch.

For the rest, you were arguing about 4 piece being good or not. I don't think you should ever use 4 piece in 10s unless the pieces are better than others you have by a good amount. But that's not what was being talked about. You tried to claim abacus does as much as the 4 piece, when it doesn't. Not even close. I didn't think you were talking about 10 man because you said 4 piece accounts for 5%. In 10s it's way less, probably not even 1%. If you were talking about 10s we both obviously misunderstood you but your numbers are really skewed.

On the points you make about keeping T9 for aura fights or until you can upgrade to make a big difference, you are right. But saying I'm wrong is well....wrong. I dropped my T9 when the crits were being useless by going to overhealing. I got to the point where 264 pieces would have been giving me more of an output than T9. That's when you need to switch.


So in the end:
Keep your 4 piece until you see you no longer need it. How do you know? When you can keep everyone up without it. Meaning the extra healing it gives is mostly going to overhealing.
If you have a good set of 264 gear, use it on non aura fights. Test it. See which gives you a greater healing output.
As for T10 in 25s. I used T10 a lot and it really doesn't do much. It will hot pets you don't rejuv but besides that, even in hardmodes, I already have my raid blanketed all the time.

I see what you are saying, I think you may have misunderstood my 1st post.

[Whydrood]

Here is a link to abacus outhealing the 4pt10 (o-hey thats me - its 10 man, but still abacus outhealed the 4pt10). http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q...bxr/details/4/

As far as dropping the 4p to buff "all your other spells", what other spells do druids worry about buffing in 25 man? I mean really, when over 70% of YOUR healing (by your I actually mean you specifically Myrrar) comes from Rejuv and WG. Rejuv is, always has been, and always will be the goto spell for druids. In ICC the only spells we are worried about buffing are WG and Rejuv, the rest are situational at best. Argue with me all you want. The numbers speak for themselves.

[Cerelli]

RNG RNG RNG. take 100 logs from 100 fights of 100 druids with their 4 piece T10 and i guarantee that the average healing done will be over 5% which is right where blizz has stated time and time again that they want a set bonus to be sitting at. The math backs this up, and if one were motivated enough to prove this the averages would back it up as well. It definitely backs it up in my own personal experience.

Also, linking 10 man fights (and a fight clearly skewed against the T10 bonus) is pretty invalid since it is no secret that the T10 set bonus is lackluster in 10's. same goes for you abacus v 10 man log. I've done nothing but base my statements on a 25 man scenario. Since the OP is in a pretty well known guild, i'm assuming that they are planning on 25 man raiding. if that assumption is off base them my apologies.