Feral Druids - the Bear guide

[Cortano]

Naturalist was a random example of losing a comparable amount of DPS. If you don't understand what a metaphor is, then don't bother answering.

Naturalist is 250% larger than NSS/MSS. You are obsessing about a 5% difference in damage and come out with an example that is 150% off and call it comparable? Keep metaphors for your poetry, which I can only hope are better than your arguments.

You call it small-minded dogmatism, I call it optimization. Granted, I don't expect you to agree, so it's merely a clarification. The main point asked by that poster has been solved, so this is the end of it.

You think raiders having no off-spec is optimization? Do you even understand what optimization is?

Guilds where raiders have raid useful off-specs are better than guilds where no one has an off-spec at all. period. No amount of straw-man arguments or personal attacks changes that.

[axxey]

Just give up Cortano, Arel has always been violently against a druid maximizing being a druid.

OOC, shredding attacks and KotJ. 6 points worth of posible bear threat talents you need in cat talents to do reasonable offtank dps, (the possible extra 3 for predatory instincts cost you some).
You lose no mitigation talents at all to gain a lot of utility.
DPS needs dps glyphs however, fortunately tank glyphs are quite weak.

Added a response: flexibility is not worth the loss in a real raid environment.
You'll cover one or two roles, and guess what? Dual spec allows for two different setups. And don't tell me you'll be covering three different roles in a single raid, because that's utter bullshit.
All-roles-druidism was fun, back in 1.8. It died with TBC, and it won't come back. Pick your role(s), specialize on that, and top your stats. That's what raiders do.

Joy for you, it's all farm content. I quite commonly tank for heroic Professor and heal for heroic sindi in the same raid and same day that I'm primary cat DPS for everything else(other than giving a healer or tank a break so they dont burn out).
Gold is stupid easy to get, glyphs and respecs are cheap, easy and fast with a lock to summon you back.

PS. I spec differently if full main tanking. With retarded ICC buff however I usually go bear and pick up if something happens to a tank while in full cat spec, full dps gear(Ie. 1 tank DCed right on pull at princes yesterday).

[arel00]

Just give up Cortano, Arel has always been violently against a druid maximizing being a druid.

I'm being realistic. I used to play "all-round hybrid" when it was a precious addition to various encounters, despite the doubts that druids still raised post 1.8 when not being resto. I still play all 4 specs, thou not all of them at raider level, and still enjoy the fullness of the class.
Understand what you want, more than that, it's not worth discussing.

[bavarcarus]

You lose no mitigation talents at all to gain a lot of utility.
DPS needs dps glyphs however, fortunately tank glyphs are quite weak.

O_O

I can't believe that's what you think...20% extra healing, massive stamina...

[axxey]

Hellscreams buff of crap makes SI glyph rather pointless unless I'm in dps gear, if I'm in dps gear it's not a fight I'll need SI. What's the use of retarded amounts of stam on top of already retarded amounts of stam when I've poped SI.

Frenzy has it's uses, more often than not there's a cooldown from a healer at far more optimal times than a tank's reactions.
I use it for heroic prof, I would use it if i was tanking H-sindi or H-LK. The only fights you use effectively glyph of frenzy is when it's predictible incoming burst you're rotating cooldowns through.

[bavarcarus]

if you have too much stm you could always put more agi in there, and I hear ruby sanctum is a bit challenging.

EDIT: damnit, one wrong word can sure change the meaning drastically.

if you have too much stm you could always put more agi in there, although I hear ruby sanctum is a bit challenging.

[Yohassakura]

if you have too much stm you could always put more agi in there, and I hear ruby sanctum is a bit challenging.

Following previous patch progression paths, people still generally stacked stamina for the higher EH, to minimize stoicism so that if that dodge that you needed to come in didn't arrive, then you may still be standing.

[Cortano]

DPS needs dps glyphs however, fortunately tank glyphs are quite weak.

I think this is spot on. The glyphs are very weak. You are pretty much ONLY going to swap those in for progression fights, stuff your guild is still wiping with, and only if you are the primary tank. The number of fights where the glyphed vs. unglyphed cooldown makes a difference in winning the fight is vanishingly small. Very limited number of fights where you would use them + very limited number of times the glyph would make a difference + requiring the ability up at the right time and you still need to use it = a very, very weak set of glyphs. They are essentially "specialist" glyphs that you pull out for specific fights, rather than something generally useful. (like the taunt glyph, you pop it in for specific fights, but generally: not very useful)


Glyphs that wouldn't suck:
Savage Defense: now works against spells
Barkskin: recycled increased to 2 minutes, effect increased to 50%
Bleeding 1: All bleed effects now cause infected wounds
Bleeding 2: You heal for 50% of any bleeding damage you do (as bear) or 15% (as cat)
Demoralizing Roar: interrupts spell casting and dispells a buff
Bash: Recycle decreased by 20 sec, stun length decreased by 3 sec
Swipe: all crits cause the target to bleed for 50% of damage over 10 sec
Enrage: the 4T10 effect, on a glyph

---------- Post added 2010-06-27 at 11:18 AM ----------

Just give up Cortano, Arel has always been violently against a druid maximizing being a druid.

Ain't that the truth!

I am shocked to see people arguing that understanding the class, and the various trade-offs that can be made to better suit some play styles is a waste of time. That is fine for blue board trolls, but wish this board had more intelligent discussion on the matter!

[bavarcarus]

I can't bring myself to raid without the taunt glyph...I raid with several tanks that insist that the glyph is stupid despite an explanation of why I feel it's needed. Then in LK the other day one of them had 2 resisted taunts as a shambling came out (I know, they shouldn't have needed to taunt but whatever). So I whipped out the 'sooo...how's that useless taunt glyph goin' and they still insist it's not needed after wiping the raid.

/ramble

I tanked festergut a few times in a hybrid spec/set just for my amusement trying to get big dps numbers, the spec replaced my kittie spec. I won't walk into an ICC raid without all the tools I ought to have as a tank, It may not be progression but it's not like I'm doin naxx. IMO it's disrespectful to the healers to not do all you can, I don't see trees switching to boomkin or priest healers speccing into shadow to dps.

[Bruin]

What the other tanks don't understand/realize Bava, is that we don't really have a lot of strong choices for glyphs to use while tanking anyhow. And explain to them that while you may often have/normally have Glyph of Maul (at least I would assume so, since its an extremely useful glyph for trash), that esp. in ICC its a hindrance (oh great I Mauled the Blood Beasts onto me, and now the Hunter and Mage can't kite them away, and oops, we just killed 2 melee dps....)but having my taunt miss on Saurfang pisses me off a lot more, so Glyph of Growl it is

Imho, in ICC, as a Bear tank, there are precious few fights where you want Maul to hit multiple targets, but there are a number of fights where a taunt missing can result in a tank taking a massive amount of damage, or even wiping a raid. {I'm thinking Festergut if taunt misses and the OT explodes}

so yeah, tell em they don't know what they're talking about

[Cortano]

so yeah, tell em they don't know what they're talking about

Glyphs are the new flasks, just swap them around for specialty fights. Its not like you need to gimp yourself on trash just so you can not miss a taunt on Saurfang or Festergut. I carry a stack of the Taunt and Maul glyphs with me; my feeling is that the Maul glyph is pretty useful generally, the Taunt glyph is situational.

As you learn encounters, the other tank glyphs have some (limited) value. After you've cleared something twice, its usually not worth the bother of getting them out of the bag to change them.

Just to quote myself:

They are essentially "specialist" glyphs that you pull out for specific fights, rather than something generally useful. (like the taunt glyph, you pop it in for specific fights, but generally: not very useful)

[bavarcarus]

There's a question of where you put the line as far as where you ought to have tank glyphs, threat glyphs or dps glyphs, do you bother with tanking gear anymore? Should you find the fine line of what you can survive in the encounter or be the best tank you can be? If a boss becomes farm content, does that justify not endeavoring to be the best at your role that you can? Do you stop bothering with barkskin and enrage as damage reduction cds?

I can think of no situation where I would want a taunt to miss, on trash I don't really care about having the maul glyph because it isn't going to keep overeager and overbuffed dps from pulling off me during aoe. IMO it's our pally's job to hold the packs lol.

The point I'm trying to make here is that my role is tanking bosses, I'm going to do all I can to be the best at that. If the healers decide they've got it too easy then one of our healers will dps. Granted I may have to try to remind myself to use longer CDs during farm fights, but I should be using them.

[Bruin]

I should state that I do carry around a number of glyphs with me, and trade them out as necessary. I also switch out my macros as needed (i.e. I'll "turn off" my macros that binds Maul to all my specials in Heroics, because since I over gear the content so much anyhow, Rage actually is an issue lol).

With the exception of Heroics, where I'm usually more about speed than finesse; I maintain my "normal" rotation, even if its much lower content (unless its a point where its so trivial that a 1-2x Mangles/Maul just to establish threat is going to be enough because the DPS will already have killed the target by then (I'm looking at you AQ40).

Overall though, and to those that are looking to be a Bear tank (or any tanking role), doing all that you can to perform at your top level is always a really good policy to follow.

[Cortano]

I also switch out my macros as needed

I use ones like this: (where you can press 'alt' to not maul)

#showtooltip
/cast Swipe
/cast [nomod] Maul

[axxey]

I should state that I do carry around a number of glyphs with me, and trade them out as necessary. I also switch out my macros as needed (i.e. I'll "turn off" my macros that binds Maul to all my specials in Heroics, because since I over gear the content so much anyhow, Rage actually is an issue lol).

I can think of no situation where I would want a taunt to miss, on trash I don't really care about having the maul glyph because it isn't going to keep overeager and overbuffed dps from pulling off me during aoe. IMO it's our pally's job to hold the packs lol.

They're heroics and trash, you hit the dps gear key before them, zero rage problems, dps can be as overeager as they want and paladin gets the leavings he can manage to taunt off you.

[zwiek]

Maybe an odd question but looking for some advice
I am trying to gear out my bear to run some lower dungeons(RFC toBlood Furnace)
I have never played the form...sad but true

I will pick up the gear on the first page aside from anything requiring a heroic or something...i have tons of badges
So....any tips
Enchants are all as per the first page?
Gems?
rotation...if there is one

thanks for taking the time

[Shuckless]

Maybe an odd question but looking for some advice
I am trying to gear out my bear to run some lower dungeons(RFC toBlood Furnace)
I have never played the form...sad but true

I will pick up the gear on the first page aside from anything requiring a heroic or something...i have tons of badges
So....any tips
Enchants are all as per the first page?
Gems?
rotation...if there is one

thanks for taking the time

-Enchants are good on the front page. If you have someone you know, Blood Draining can also be a good weapon enchant if you find yourself dropping below 35% frequently. I use it for Sindragosa and LK.
-Gem full Stamina and put a 15 Agil and 10 stamina in some red socket, usually the boots of impending death if you can afford them.
-Rotation.. Macro all your abilities with Maul first of all. Next, Charge in. FFF, Mangle, throw up Lacerate as fast as possible, while also using FFF and Mangle off the cooldown regardless unless lacerate is about to drop. Never let lacerate drop. Demo Roar once you are situated and remember to refresh before all abilities that cause extra amounts of damage.

Go go get your 2 piece(Shoulders and hands) before anything else. This is going to help you out a LOT. I made a mistake and didnt pick it up immediately and was having threat problems later on. After your 2 piece, grab the belt. Your idol is last... Remember to use the 226 over the 245 idol.

[bavarcarus]

RFC to blood furnace? Pretty big range, you won't even see gems till you get into ramps.

Early on you're looking for things with agi and str mostly, survival in a lvl 15 instance isn't going to be your problem so you're just looking for threat and damage. I didn't tank while leveling, but the biggest complaint I heard from others was about rage. You might not be able to use maul much. As you go on you'll probably need better itemized gear, with stm and agi.

[zwiek]

Ok. sorry I did not clarify....it was a long day at work before that post

I am level 80....have over 600 badges so I can pick up the entire list on the first page
I plan on 2/3 box some alts through the instances from RFC to Blood Furance
typically gets me up to level 65 with the alts then I can quest them to 80

[bavarcarus]

Hmm, in that case you'd probably want a cat set not a bear set. I keep a ArP softcapped set for *tanking* stuff that can't really hurt me. A 232 geared tank can easily solo lvl 70 heroics, scares only come up with stuns and fears (that somehow they can land on a player 10 levels above them).

A bit of side advice for the lower levels, Demo roar puts up a tiny bit of threat allowing you to gather most of the instance with alts in tow. The only danger is from caster mobs that will finish their cast on their originally aquired target.

Also, having 2 accounts myself, I found that it was far faster to quest. What I did was to get the mammoth that allows riders, and I keep a 3kSP thorns on my alt. The only time I actually keep them grouped is when the alt needs a ride somewhere. The game limits the level of thorns you're allowed to put on a low level character, but the SP coefficent still increases the overall damage. At lvl 10 it was doing around 70 damage to mobs almost making it difficult to tag them before they died. If you're really into it you can even make a thorns spec that will make the damage done ridiculous.