Cataclysm - Build 12479 - Warrior

[Mocheeba]

Halls of Reflection and Forge of Souls are why I'm keeping Gag Order.

I know, its still beta and all, but the new ICC5's are where they said they would like things to go. So places where you need to use positioning and even CC - especially CC if your tank needs a bit stronger gear. (I wish I had hunters as smart as they were in BC now, but I've run with some priests who the moment they saw someone out there they'd shackle them and it just makes life so much easier.)

Anyway, take FoS, they have those 5-man groups where 3 of them are casters.

You charge the first caster, hit shield bash, then intercept the next caster. That one you sit on which still leaves one caster out there flingin' shadowbolts at you. BAM heroic throw, they walk right in, thunderclap, spell reflect, shockwave, a couple cleaves. Those mobs are on you until they die to the righteous fury of your group.

Either way, as I said at some point on these boards. I will probably end up with 2 specs, one for TPS/DPS and one for survivability. I'm actually wishing for tri or quad spec so I could really adjust my character for the fights.

I'm also looking forward to the new glyph system and what new glyphs they will offer. (For those who haven't read, once you know a glyph you know it forever and you can choose which ones you want active.)

With the likes of Heroics such as FoS, I dont know about you guys but i dont have problems keeping aggro with spell reflect tanking. I rarely ever use gag order (unless i cba to move) to pick up mobs. I'm not saying its a useless talent, i just think it could be spent better.

[Mammoth]

With the likes of Heroics such as FoS, I dont know about you guys but i dont have problems keeping aggro with spell reflect tanking. I rarely ever use gag order (unless i cba to move) to pick up mobs. I'm not saying its a useless talent, i just think it could be spent better.

Consider a CC pull of 2 casters and a melee, where you only have 1 CC available. You CC one caster, aggro the melee and then gag the final caster. If you don't gag the loose caster he will stay next to the CC'd caster and make life harder for you and the melee dps. Gag is vital for kiting casters. You might be able to spell reflect tank it, but its not nearly as efficent as hitting it in melee range.


Does anyone else feel that warriors are more like blood DKs now we can get the healing when hit talent from fury tree?

[Rend]

I still believe the 3/32/6 Build would be a better dps increase imo

I mean yeah deep wounds is nice, but we dont need rend (unless you like opening off with one, or stance dancing) and field dressing is pretty pointless.

That said, rend might be something to go for if we find out that 3% extra crit isnt as good as 10% arp, since we lose the 20% extra strengh from zerker?

thought about a spec for rend as fury

War academy 3/3, Rend 2/2, Impale 2/2

Armoured to the teeth 3/3 Unbridled wrath 3/3 Cruelty 2/2 Intensify rage 3/3 Imp execute 2/2 Impending Victory 2/2 Fury in the blood 2/2 Enrage 2/2
Even the odds 2/2 Booming voice 2/2 Flurry 3/3 Dw 1/1 Bloodsurge 3/3 and single minded fury

Incite 3/3, was pondering about toughness but decided the extra crit might be more beneficial.

---------- Post added 2010-07-15 at 12:43 PM ----------

Bugger, didnt see the whole "new look at trees" that have been posted today, meaning that now you have to have deep wounds for impale, making my tree impossible. >_<

[Karashu]

What i wanna know is, if being an arms warrior might be good dps for pve, apparently 2h specialization is gonna buff up arms so that they can do some damage. so i'm thinkin atm, we can do some real damage.

Second, is taking improved slam worth it. i used to use slam alot back in nax days, when arms was still competing with fury, but ofc gotta go fury now. Anyways, looks like rage is gonna be important, so drop slam for 2 points into unbridled wrath?

[Shelly]

Consider a CC pull of 2 casters and a melee, where you only have 1 CC available. You CC one caster, aggro the melee and then gag the final caster. If you don't gag the loose caster he will stay next to the CC'd caster and make life harder for you and the melee dps. Gag is vital for kiting casters. You might be able to spell reflect tank it, but its not nearly as efficent as hitting it in melee range.


Does anyone else feel that warriors are more like blood DKs now we can get the healing when hit talent from fury tree?

Not quite because it places Warriors in a role of reactive healing whereas DKs - and Paladins and Druids - are in a position of active healing. They can all choose to heal (which a warrior can too with enraged regen) by clicking their death strike, or shifting out and hotting up right fast or eat some damage and get off a holy or flash of light. Whereas the warriors are limited more to heals by amount of damage incoming.

Which is why I said I like it for tanking old heroics and raids. It will be especially nice if it can proc on blocks as well (which it should since block is now a % rather than a flat number so you'll never completely avoid all damage).

[heerobya]

I'll say it again -

Fury PvE DPS - http://www.wowtal.com/#k=GUeWofjP.9mn.warrior

Going for swinging fast and having zerk/blood/deathwish/engrage/inner rage up as often as possible, trying to generate a boat load of rage to burn on powerful HS's and inner rage and having the self healing to not get gibbed.

Arms PvE dps - http://www.wowtal.com/#k=l1ZezvtU.9mn.warrior

Charging around the battlefield MS'ing and overpowering and cleaving/sweeping strikes with great bleeds and only using HS after you hit 100 rage and Inner Rage pops up

[Jaggy]

I thought about the toughness thing going hand in hand with armored to the teeth, but i highly doubt it will be better than deep wounds could ever be.
If we got 30k armor in Cat, thats an extra 3k armor which will only turn into 83AP. Doesnt really seem worth it.

[Radux]

I'm actually quite excited at the new change to Vigilance (assuming it stays with the whole Vengeance thing). It allows Warriors to be a VERY effective offtank. Not only does the MT get -3% damage taken, but we are able to keep our Vengeance buff to its maximum by taking next to no damage (assuming we take no damage, of course -- which is more than likely not the case, regardless). I suppose my favorite idea is the fact that DPS can go all out after a quick initial pickup (of incoming adds) by the warrior tank, as our Vengeance buff would already be maxed.

[catablitz]

I'm actually quite excited at the new change to Vigilance (assuming it stays with the whole Vengeance thing). It allows Warriors to be a VERY effective offtank. Not only does the MT get -3% damage taken, but we are able to keep our Vengeance buff to its maximum by taking next to no damage (assuming we take no damage, of course -- which is more than likely not the case, regardless). I suppose my favorite idea is the fact that DPS can go all out after a quick initial pickup (of incoming adds) by the warrior tank, as our Vengeance buff would already be maxed.

You do realise that if the rest 3 tank classes cannot have their vengeance up while offtanking, that new vigilance will force the class to be the permanent offtank in a raid right? Especially on a scenario that every dps matters for example sartharion with 3 drakes ( back then) and ofc in every serious raiding guild.

[Neichus]

You do realise that if the rest 3 tank classes cannot have their vengeance up while offtanking, that new vigilance will force the class to be the permanent offtank in a raid right? Especially on a scenario that every dps matters for example sartharion with 3 drakes ( back then) and ofc in every serious raiding guild.

Warriors get the Vengeance of being hit. We don't get Revenge procs OR Rage from damage taken. Right now we're by far the worst offtanks in the game because of those factors. This Vigilance change will probably put us on par with other tanks, not ahead of them.

[catablitz]

Warriors get the Vengeance of being hit. We don't get Revenge procs OR Rage from damage taken. Right now we're by far the worst offtanks in the game because of those factors. This Vigilance change will probably put us on par with other tanks, not ahead of them.

You dont understand.. Right now we are indeed the worst offtanks just because our DPS contribution to the raid DPS is negligible, however we have a hand of salvation-intervene and a safeguard which offers lots of utility.

IF in cataclysm warriors are the only of the 4 tanks that has the ability to keep vengeance up then this tank is bound/forced to be the permanent offtank of the raid. It is quite self-explainable.

Regardless of skill/gear, since when you measure and compare class roles you take them as equal, as a raid leader it is quite obvious who will be the offtank - always..

Especially on HC raids where the last detail matters and brings kills.. If I gain 2k raid dps by switching tanks around you bet I ll do it asap.

THe dissapointing aspect is that devs tried to correct 1 bad thing by opening a window to a bigger one.

[Neichus]

You dont understand.. Right now we are indeed the worst offtanks just because our DPS contribution to the raid DPS is negligible, however we have a hand of salvation-intervene and a safeguard which offers lots of utility.

IF in cataclysm warriors are the only of the 4 tanks that has the ability to keep vengeance up then this tank is bound/forced to be the permanent offtank of the raid. It is quite self-explainable.

Regardless of skill/gear, since when you measure and compare class roles you take them as equal, as a raid leader it is quite obvious who will be the offtank - always..

Especially on HC raids where the last detail matters and brings kills.. If I gain 2k raid dps by switching tanks around you bet I ll do it asap.

THe dissapointing aspect is that devs tried to correct 1 bad thing by opening a window to a bigger one.

No, I understand fully. At this time Warriors are by far the worst offtanks because of Rage mechanics. Death Knights and Paladins still put out significant damage while not tanking because their resource isn't tied to being hit; Druids use Rage as well, but have that nifty trick of turning into a Cat and no longer being reliant on Rage. Of course all of the tanking classes do better while being hit (Rune Strike, Holy Shield, running OOM, etc) but the gap isn't nearly as large as it is for Warriors because they lose their reactive ability (Revenge) as well as their primary source of Rage. Now assuming Prot Warrior Rage generation isn't going to go up (which seems unlikely) it means that we'll still be doing a bare-bones rotation while not taking damage. Vengeance just makes up for this. Other classes don't get Vengeance while OTing but do more damage baseline.

[Shelly]

With the likes of Heroics such as FoS, I dont know about you guys but i dont have problems keeping aggro with spell reflect tanking. I rarely ever use gag order (unless i cba to move) to pick up mobs. I'm not saying its a useless talent, i just think it could be spent better.

That's nice and all but it's not just about keeping aggro. By controlling the flow of the fight and getting the casters where I want them I'm able to interrupt them more often, which cuts down on the damage the group takes and I'm able to get them in a position where they receive more AoE damage.

If you're not using all your tools to correct herd up the mobs you aren't doing a very good job tanking.

@Neichus, one thing to keep in mind with Cat is that paladins are losing Judgement of Wisdom, so they won't be pulling back as much mana on hit like they are right now. Which could severely hurt their off-tanking.

[Neichus]

@Neichus, one thing to keep in mind with Cat is that paladins are losing Judgement of Wisdom, so they won't be pulling back as much mana on hit like they are right now. Which could severely hurt their off-tanking.

I'm waiting to see what happens to Paladins. Blizzard has dropped repeated hints that the class has once again been turned inside-out. So I'm cautious to assign much to them, except that it seems unlikely Blizzard will make Prot Paladins go OOM rapidly without JoW.

[Radux]

JoW is gone. It's something that's just called "Judgement" now. Maybe you're thinking of Seal of Wisdom? /Shrug.