Cataclysm Guild Perks, Stonecore Boss Videos

[Crosis]

When was WoW a complex game favored by the hardcore?
When was there XP and level loss? How many items have you lost to PKs or repair penalties?
Which boss fight has taken you 5 hours to complete, as in from 100% health to 0% health?

When has WoW been anything other than an EQ clone stripped of its hardcore requirements?
(For the record, I'm thankful for that.)

Wow was favored by the hardcore in vanilla, and has slowly been dumbed down year after year after year. Your other points were horrible fyi, if youre gonna be sarcastic and try to say the game was never hardcore lets use decent examples. Like:
When did you have to spend hours upon hours of farming fire elementals for elemental fires for raid night on rag?
When did you spend hours farming gold/mats for raiding?
When did the game favor high end raiders to trump everyone in PvP with amazing epics while casuals were stuck in blues?
When did epics used to be something you had to earn rather then be handed them for sneezing in the right direction?

Also you cant compare a game like EQ to WoW. EQ was not difficult IT WAS JUST TEDIOUS AND GRINDY. Nothing in EQ was hard it just took forever to get anything done. Plane of time/nightmare etc in EQ was a joke, WoW was actually more difficult then EQ was in the beginning raiding wise, if you didnt think so then you must have been horrible at EQ. EQ needed more people then wow ever did for some fights and each fight took 5x as long. WoW had fights that took even the top guilds weeks to get done before they eventually got nerfed.

While I dont want the game to be hardcore, it also cant be too easy and downie proof like its going right now. The game has gone from being required to play alot of hours a week raiding for new loots to welfare epics etc. The PvP gear was the first step in the right/wrong direction because it originally closed the gap between players who just pvped and those who pved, however the pvp loot at one point became much easier to get (tbc) which then turned to the mentality that PvE loot should be easier to get (heroics which then helped close the gap in pve). Now raiding is so easy that in WoTLK a new 80 can get a full set of raiding epics in one night PvE wise, and maybe in 2 weeks if you dont rush? of PvP epics. And instances like ICC were trivilized with a 30% buff to dmg/hp etc which allows people on alot of servers to pug ICC hardmodes lol.

The only challenging istance of WoTLK was Ulduar hardmodes, everything else is pretty simplistic (minus the Hardmode LK, which is more just redic hp/dmg in hardmode not so much the encounter getting harder like ulduar). I dont think anyone (myself included) wants to go back to vanilla raiding, or vanilla inflation of gear etc, but with the new talent trees (yes currently in beta and first implementation) along with other roads the game is going, it looking very dumbed down and alot of ppl like myself who quit WotLK and are hoping CATA is gonna breathe new life into WoW are getting rather disappointed to say the least.

The only pluses cata seems to have going right now
- New feeling to old zones
- Rated Bgs
- Archeology seems cool might be interesting
- new races
- and this guild thing seems pretty cool
- not having to do 10s/25 and being able to do 10 mans for the same loot while not having to wait for joe and his mom to log on because you cant fill a raid lol

While this seems like a lot only 2 or so have long term "coolness" or the ability to keep your attention for awhile. Hope im wrong but well see.

Edit: I do not want the game to go back to taking hours upon hours to get anything done, since i want to play it semi casually in Cata cause of work/friends etc and not wanting to ignore all that to be the "best". But I also dont want it to be so simple its no longer a challenge or requires any thought behind encounters or talent choices etc. While u have sites for that it still takes alot of time and effort to find the optimal set or talent choices etc unless you just wait for someone else to do it and copy.

[chorx]

Wow, imagine a pally with Aura mastery, Crusaders aura, 310%, and mount up...

[Lemons]

Jeez, those fights take forever! 5 minutes for one heroic boss? I know that most wotlk heroic bosses barely last 30 seconds against a moderately geared group, but this seems like an overreaction.

[Arcangel14]

How fast do you gain rep exactly?
Like, if your leveling from 1, how long would it take till you get the 10% exp talent.

[GrieverXIII]

Jeez, those fights take forever! 5 minutes for one heroic boss? I know that most wotlk heroic bosses barely last 30 seconds against a moderately geared group, but this seems like an overreaction.

Lol, because killing bosses before Bloodlust/Heroism is finished like now is fun amirite? The more difficult, the better, the longer (in a reasonable amount), the better. Less Welfare, the better. Anyway, if enough of your kind cry it will get nerfed into oblivion like...always, don't worry you should have your welfare epics back by the 4.1

Anyway, concerning guild talents, looks cool, kinda curious about how fast guilds will level tho, i suppose bigger guilds will level faster, happy to see that it doesn't affect PvP either.

[Fcdwn777]

So... you're fucked if you just want to play alone because everyone on your server is a gibbering moron. You're also fucked if you want to make a new guild because everyone will already be in one and you're fucked if you're in a small guild because this system HEAVILY favors mega-guilds just like the old talent system did.

Everything I hear about the game just makes me want to quit more and more.

The lack of reading comprehension some people have is appalling. None of these perks are game breaking, meaning none are so powerful as to make you NEED to be in a guild. They are just what they are called. Perks. And no, you are not screwed if you want to make a new guild because not everyone will be in guilds, because as was mentioned previously, none of these perks are so over the top that it will make people join guild when they don't want to. And this system is the same for small guilds as it is for big guilds considering only the top 10 or so members will be counted for guild xp. Meaning the top 10 people who are contributing the most xp by pvping, leveling, running dungeons, etc. therefore a small guild can level at the same pace as a guild with 100's of people. Also, if you are in a super small guild of 5 people, it will just take you longer to get the perks, which is fine because if you are in a guild that small do you really need spells like mass rez and mass summon asap? No. This system is balanced whether you like it or not.

[skyesfury]

Lol, because killing bosses before Bloodlust/Heroism is finished like now is fun amirite? The more difficult, the better, the longer (in a reasonable amount), the better. Less Welfare, the better. Anyway, if enough of your kind cry it will get nerfed into oblivion like...always, don't worry you should have your welfare epics back by the 4.1

It wasn't the crying that got the content nerfed. Nice try on blaming the majority based on the vocal minority, though. The reason the bosses in LK die so fast now is because of how outrageously the average group outgears the content. When LK first came out, very few bosses went down in less than two minutes (though I'm sure there will be plenty of epeeners that want to claim otherwise). The majority of the content that was nerfed doesn't even directly relate to the bosses themselves, but rather the trash leading up to them (i.e. less trash, easier to kill, etc.).

[Ashla]

hmmm... I would have liked to see a guild perk for increased back pack size. A Guild Backpack that has 24 slots or something like that. It would give that backpack upgrade that many people want, use the guild perk system, and be an easy way to do it.

^^^^^^^^^
this, all the way

[fangless]

Jeez, those fights take forever! 5 minutes for one heroic boss? I know that most wotlk heroic bosses barely last 30 seconds against a moderately geared group, but this seems like an overreaction.

Heroic would be level 85. These are normal bosses?

And instances were much harder earlier on when people weren't running them with 6k GS

[Somarlane]

Even better: 4 biggest guilds on the server organise guild 40-man raids. Each sends a rogue into 1 capital city...

I approve of this strategy... provided it doesn't crash my city's server. :P
(This once happened to Ironforge on the Malfurion realm. I felt so proud of the Horde! XD )

---------- Post added 2010-07-18 at 07:15 PM ----------

i have a very small guild (7 of my irl friends)can we still benefit from the guild perks?...

You should be able to gain from guild perks. I remember somewhere a blue saying the minimum guild member attendance requirement is 70%. I haven't heard anything different since then.

[Mackeyser]

To answer a few questions (and by all means correct me if I'm wrong or if something's changed)

Heroism points are the new badges/emblems.

GMs will have NO say over who gets what. Guild members will have to earn reputation with their guild. The levels of perks will likely be divided by the familiar neutral/friendly/honored/revered/exalted and thus the first 5 will likely be initially available to anyone just joining, but anything beyond that (if the guild has earned them) will require contribution to earn rep. Once a person CAN learn a perk, they will have to pay gold to BUY it and will lose it if they leave the guild or are kicked, tho not immediately.

I don't think the ways of earning rep have been fully articulated at this time.

I don't think the ways for guilds to earn guild perks have been fully articulated at this time.

It has already been stated that only the top 20 or so "producers" will count towards a guild's progress so even small guilds will be able to progress fairly rapidly. That doesn't mean everyone else won't need to contribute because they'll need the rep.

A side effect of this is that farmers will NEED to be in the guild, not in banking alt guilds in order to partake of the bonuses. Further, they'll need to quest/daily or whatever enough to earn enough rep with the guild to learn #22, which likely means being exalted with the guild.

Yes, this basically kills alt guilds and may require guilds to look for "Roster Officers" who actually spend the time to keep track of the expanded rosters and alts and whatnot. The good news is that it puts a premium on well run guilds, be they big or small. No, small guilds of 10-20 people won't be horribly behind those huge guilds with 500 people. They won't have as much money, but if they put the work in and are capable, they should move along nicely as is the design.

I really like it, frankly.

Mass summon and Mass Res really works for progression. I'm looking forward to it.

[Somarlane]

hmmm... I would have liked to see a guild perk for increased back pack size. A Guild Backpack that has 24 slots or something like that. It would give that backpack upgrade that many people want, use the guild perk system, and be an easy way to do it.

That would be cool. I asked my sister Alayea about it, and she recalled a blue post addressing the matter. The blue (paraphrasing here) said the code dealing with the backpack is very old and any changes in it would likely cause very interesting but unwelcome side-effects; and is not a priority at this time.

---------- Post added 2010-07-18 at 07:33 PM ----------

yea it is, you will get heroism points from heroics and past teirs of raiding. the current teir would give valor (?) points.

Valor is correct.

[Azrile]

Just to add one piece of information.

You don't have to actually contribute to a guild leveling in order to gain reputation with the guild, you simple have to do the things that WOULD allow your guild to level. Let me explain.

The current system only allows the top 10 contributors each day to help raise the level of the guild. This is to prevent everyone from abandoning smaller guilds. Small guilds with 10 players will have all 10 players contribute guild experience by killing bosses, questing and doing professions etc. Large guilds will only have their top 10 contributors for that day contribute.

But what happens if you are in a big guild, and you are ALWAYS the 11th placed person in your guild as far as helping the guild gain levels. Technically, you aren't helping the guild level at all because your contribution isn't counted. However, all the activities that you did that day DO count for you gaining rep for your guild.

As far as being forced to join a large guild in order to receive the perks. Not at all. Almost every useful thing you do in the game, even if you solo will add to guild experience. Doing quests, killing overland mobs, pugging dungeons, battlegrounds.. all give guild experience even if you are playing alone. If you look at the perks.. the first 5 really are nice for solo-type players, and solo-type players will be able to get them even if they have a guild comprised of only their alts.

The only thing solo players will miss out on will be some of the achievement perks, which are mostly cosmetic things (except for heirlooms). But even then, we aren't sure what achievements are necessary to unlock heirlooms, it could be something solo players could do.

[Cyberzombie]

Something I just noticed after bothering to go back and watch the other videos...

The priestess is a sith lord.

Dual-bladed lightsaber (not a stable of the sith, but more commonly used by them than Jedi), force grips, and grabs rocks to chunk at people.

I approve.

[BondExtreme]

Will classes like rogues, warriors, mages, DK's be able to use Mass Res do you think?

[Somarlane]

Waaait a second... If they have the ability to make mail be instant between players, then why don't they do it?! That's the lamest perk up there.

I disagree. Anyone else remember a time when any items you mailed to one of your alts took 30-60 minutes? It changed because Blizzard had done overall hardware upgrades. Instantaneous mailing is limited to characters of the same account (and fellow guild members if that specific perk survives to live) because of the technical aspect - no matter how awesome the software, that same software will still be tied to the limits of the hardware.

Now if you prefer a RP reason: The wizards that sort and teleport your item(s) and/or correspondence to their destinations don't get paid very well. As in, you get more money by slaying Hogger than mugging one of the wizards. Also, their health insurance is through a goblin HMO.

---------- Post added 2010-07-18 at 07:58 PM ----------

i personally want to see someone trying to gank my paladin and i Bubble and Cast mass summon and have all my guildies kick his ass lol

A hilarious mental image, but the ability will not work while in combat. You would have to run far enough away to drop out of combat.

---------- Post added 2010-07-18 at 08:18 PM ----------

I am wondering as a Shammie, does Hasty Hearth work for Astral Recall? Since AR is basically shared CD time as a Hearth.

I seriously doubt it. Astral Recall has a CD completely separate from the Hearthstone, as well as having its own glyph that reduces the CD by 50%.

[Calaba]

Ten percent extra money isn't "nothing". Fifteen percent extra gathering materials (!) isn't "nothing". Ten percent extra experience, ten percent extra extra reputation, a doubled duration on powerful buffs and double the amount of flasks isn't "nothing" at all. If you seriously think that these aren't massive buffs that screw over people just like heirlooms do, go try leveling a character right now 1-80 with NO heirlooms at all.

No, no, no, no, no.
NONE of these things will effect you in combat. The reason those heirloom gears are good ISN'T the xp boost, it's the DPS and HP boost! It's because the arcanite reaper heirloom can 1-shot anything it touches at lower levels! And have you tried to find trinkets / shoulders at low level? The xp bonus is just an added luxury. Yes, you can still level fast without the xp bonus bits.

The flask thing only relates to cauldrons. For those that missed them, in TBC there are/were certain cauldrons that your WHOLE RAID could get resistance pots from, like how health stones work. But the cauldrons aren't free, far from it - they're fairly expensive. That's right - these aren't "single player" buffs, they're EXPENSIVE raid buffs. In other words, flasks from the guild bank. Working for 2 hours. Like flasks on alchemists.

This isn't game breaking stuff. These are pretty minor gains. The only strangely high up one is the extra mining / herbing one. But even then, i've not done herbing for ages, that's what AH is for.

[rboa]

Ten percent extra money isn't "nothing". Fifteen percent extra gathering materials (!) isn't "nothing". Ten percent extra experience, ten percent extra extra reputation, a doubled duration on powerful buffs and double the amount of flasks isn't "nothing" at all. If you seriously think that these aren't massive buffs that screw over people just like heirlooms do, go try leveling a character right now 1-80 with NO heirlooms at all.

^^^^ THIS

To all those saying these are "mostly cosmetic things", have you ever played this game? These are HUGE buffs. If you are not in a maxed-out guild you will lose.

Oh, and btw: extra gold == extra gear.

[Calaba]

^^^^ THIS

To all those saying these are "mostly cosmetic things", have you ever played this game? These are HUGE buffs. If you are not in a maxed-out guild you will lose.

Oh, and btw: extra gold == extra gear.

Mostly. Cosmetic.
You can pretty much split the list into 2 sections - leveling / rep gains, and raid tools.

Anything which is rep-based, xp-based, or run-speed-outside-pvp based, is going to be almost useless after you've reached max level and got some gear from questing. These are ALL LOW LEVEL, so even your small alts guild will get these quickly.

The raid tools are things like extended fish feasts / flasks, cheaper repairs, extra durability, mass resurrect, etc. These are all late on. These will make a raid go a bit smoother, but WON'T EFFECT YOUR RAID'S ABILITY TO KILL A BOSS. Simple as that.

[Somarlane]

Alright, time for a real post.

I really like the guild perks as currently presented. They are fun and will not be game changers for end-game content, so players don't feel pressured to become a part of a guild so they can feel like they are performing at their best. It has reasonable restrictions in place so 10-man raiders do not feel pressured to recruit for & run 25-man content.

I see my guild loving this just for the fact that the perks are, in a way, achievements AND very helpful for alts. (Many of the players in my guild, including myself, are achievement w****s. And serious altoholics. *nervous laugh* )

Stonecore: Surprisingly, I found myself actually disliking the mechanics I saw in the videos. I normally either like something or don't mind it. The fights for the first few bosses seem very re-hashed, and that the only one which could require true concentration is the priestess battle - mostly because it would be a slight game to see how many adds the party could gib using the boss' own ability.