Hunter & DK Pet Changes, Archaeology, Blue Posts

[Maerad]

No problem, I just hate when people are too egoistic to understand something.

It's not about a fucked up roster or raid composition. It's about that hunters will have a guranteed raidslot, always. And you're trying to say that a 5% crit buff, 8% spelldamage debuff, 4% physical damage, increased bleed damage wont make a difference when you dont have it in the raid? It's more utility than one single class in wow could ever bring, and if they still consider hunters a "pure" class, while treating others with the damage tax then fuck it.

Looks like your previous raiding experience has touch you nothing. On some encounters in a 10 man raid your comp of 10 different classes wont be as viable as other ones, and this is even fact in 25 mans. There will be always some encounters which prefer one class more than the other, and what whould be the easiest solution? Replace the class which perfoms less good, and let the hunter do the debuff / buff if it's missing.

First of all - changing your pet comes with some special problems. For some buffs you need to spec into BM - on some bosses that may be the worst thing to do. Then with another pet you may not be able to perform as good as before, so the raidlead will NEED to look for all buffs from the usual classes. AND you have to GET all those pets before and get em to lvl 85 - not so easy. And only 5 pets per stable call - what's left you need to get out at the stable of a town.

And I don't see the problems with the raidspot - on a 10 man and 25 man you always have a hunter with you - dosn't matter what kind of pet he has or will have. It's a nice change for random raids, if there's some class missing and their buff could be really usefull (like the moonkin buff etc.) so you could buff something you can't find someone for.

And besides - I don't think they start stacking hunters in raids, because more then one hunter in a 10 man, the rest will leave the raid because of the shared loot.

[bethofwow]

So no flying in Azeroth without the expansion. Boooo

[Schaden]

It's not about a fucked up roster or raid composition. It's about that hunters will have a guranteed raidslot, always. And you're trying to say that a 5% crit buff, 8% spelldamage debuff, 4% physical damage, increased bleed damage wont make a difference when you dont have it in the raid? It's more utility than one single class in wow could ever bring, and if they still consider hunters a "pure" class, while treating others with the damage tax then fuck it.

The point, you've missed it.

Hunters wont be the only class to bring those buffs. Missing that 8% spell damage? Bring an unholy DK or boomkin if hunters are the bane of your existence. The point is to make these buffs even more available, this HELPS people, especially casual or 10-man guilds. And its only ONE BUFF AT A TIME. I doubt a raid leader, especially of a guild with a solid roster is going to go "Oh, we're missing buffhere! I could either recruit or bring a hunter for that slot or I could bring someone of that class/spec. Ahh, I'll just bring a hunter because who cares if this means I'm missing that other spec/class anyway - its a hunter!"

Besides, check WoL and other parses - hunters are rarely at the top of the DPS charts (that's reserved for Fire mages and Fury warriors and skilled feral druids who get chain fed Power Infusion/Tricks/Hysteria). For a "pure" class, hunters are actually behind several classes for over all damage. We've been a utility class as opposed to a "pure" dps class for a while now. We're swiss army knives and you're trying to exaggerate us into sub-orbital laser canons.

[The Last DJ]

Goddammit, Blizzard. I'd almost decided that I was going to reroll my troll hunter as a druid and now you pull this on me. :| Considering my hunter was my first level 60/70 and spent all 4 years as BM (minus when Survival blew everything out of the water and I had to be Surv to put out decent numbers), I'm glad to see BM hunters getting some tricks. I'm not completely satisfied with the Focus system, as early on it seemed to break the smoothness of a DPS rotation/priority system. However, they may have tweaked it so that it's less choppy and there's less time spent Steady-Shotting to regain enough Focus to fire off a special. I didn't enjoy being what equated to a ranged Feral Druid. I will however miss my Devilsaur Thud becoming astronomically large with Monstrous Bite and Bloodlust, even after they reduced the size increase on MB. The Devilsaur Ass-Pull was many a hysterical wipe in early Naxx.

[OtisJay]

When I read that Mages would get their own Bloodlust, I grumbled, but I didn't protest.
Now, however, I feel that a huge border is being crossed.



WHAT
THE
HELL?!

What on earth is wrong with Blizzard?! Hunters do not need a Bloodlust. Hell, they don't deserve one!
Bloodlust is one of the very few remaining key spells left which make the Shaman stand out, and I am strongly against handing it out to all the other classes out there. Sure, Shamans were considered OP once, but this was back in Vanilla when Frost Shock was still strong! We've passed that point, yet still they continue to take abuse over, and over, and over...

And for you sceptics who say that Shamans still have totems, who cares if they do? The buffs they give are only mediocre, we only really use a handful of the thouzands of totems we recieve, and they die in one hit.

While I (reluctantly) allow Mages to have Bloodlust, I'm going to have to make a stand here.
SAY NO TO HUNTERS WITH BLOODLUST!!!

/Agree...

[Deleted]

So no flying in Azeroth without the expansion. Boooo

Seriously, why would anyone want to play WoW without the expansion? It's like wanting to play baseball without a bat.

You pay $180 per year to play the game. Every two years you have to pay an additional $40 or so for the x-pac. If you can't afford that, then you should probably not pay the annual $180 either.

[crazy23]

Fellow hunters, just to let you know. They will nerf the hell out of this. I guarantee it. So don't get your hopes up just yet. The Shamans will QQ enough to get get the job done for us.
Trust me.

LOL. Fellow hunters please ignore this. Blizzard have stated pets will not benefit from player buffs in cataclysm. So the pets bring the buffs. This will go live. Shaman QQ, to be honest I have seen more Mage QQ to the corehound getting heroism, than shamans.
Blizzard KNOW that hunters need some more buffs that are not easily cancelled by another buff. So this is an overall good change for them.

[Kenai]

Funnier still, its only the shaman crying. "Boo hoo! Now I have to be good at my class to get into a group, not just because of my buff!" Personally I love this buff to core-hounds (I play a hunter AND a shaman)with this change I won't just be drug around on my shaman 24/7 because of her buff. I can play something DIFFERENT. (Like my main)

I think whining about Heroism is dumb, but only Shaman whining? Really? In this thread full of Mage QQ? And that's just for Hero/BL! How often do we get a blue post update without a wall of Paladin tears?

Too many people are still in WotLK mentality and it shows. I want to play other jobs besides my shaman and mages and hunters with heroism means I won't be forced to come shaman every time a 10 man group forms. I also have been seeing this as an excellent opportunity to finally get rid of that amazingly stupid hybrid tax excuse for dps disparity. And the final builds are still unknown, I can't wait to see more.

[WaitingforSWTOR]

Nice to see that Blizzard gives the DK pets a transformation option

Screw the transformation, i want ghoul VOICES back!!!

[Usagi Vindaloo]

Okay, perhaps I'm missing something here, but did they just turn Devilsaurs into PVP pets?

It sure looks like it, what with the mortal strike debuff... that would only really be useful in PvP or against mobs/bosses that heal themselves (suppose there's a lot of trash that does, but raid bosses?). It has the +crit, but that can be gotten from wolves as well (though I'm not sure what their second ability is, or if they have one).

I'm just a little paranoid as my devilsaur Goldblum has been a constant companion for my hunter throughout WOTLK (meaning I stayed BM even when raiding... the guild didn't want me to put away "their" mascot ) and I'm worried that Devilsaurs will end up subpar for PvE compared to other pets. I already went through one expansion of that, don't want to do it again.

[Archer]

When I read that Mages would get their own Bloodlust, I grumbled, but I didn't protest.
Now, however, I feel that a huge border is being crossed.



WHAT
THE
HELL?!

What on earth is wrong with Blizzard?! Hunters do not need a Bloodlust. Hell, they don't deserve one!
Bloodlust is one of the very few remaining key spells left which make the Shaman stand out, and I am strongly against handing it out to all the other classes out there. Sure, Shamans were considered OP once, but this was back in Vanilla when Frost Shock was still strong! We've passed that point, yet still they continue to take abuse over, and over, and over...

And for you sceptics who say that Shamans still have totems, who cares if they do? The buffs they give are only mediocre, we only really use a handful of the thouzands of totems we recieve, and they die in one hit.

While I (reluctantly) allow Mages to have Bloodlust, I'm going to have to make a stand here.
SAY NO TO HUNTERS WITH BLOODLUST!!!

Make the stand all you want, it's not your game and if you don't like it simple solution for ya: QUIT!
Should hunters have made the "stand" when you totem dropping freaks were given ghost wolves?

I for one welcome the change, no longer does my raid have to carry bad shamans just for BL, or find a retarded priest for fort. Now we can pick and choose.

[Deleted]

If hunters, a "pure class" are getting all that utility. As a shadow priest I hope us "hybrid dps" get fing even dps potential with them...

Since when pure classes couldn't have more than one raid buff? Pure classes can only fill one role which is DPS. It seems there even isn't "pure" and "hybrid" tax when DKs, palas and warriors are topping meters with their smournes. Now shush and heal my ass!

Theres a difference between one class getting lust/hero to one spec (and it's one pet) and one getting it as base ability. This also brings something new and useful to hunters in PvE since all hunters did get for PvE before this was...umm...Steady Shot v1.5 aka Cobra Shot? Other new abilities was for PvP.

[Zadoc]

Much QQing...

Bear in mind that all the really useful buff beasts are Beast Mastery only (heroism, mend, BoM, BoK etc). Now, I haven't been fortunate enough to get a Beta key, so I don't know how BM spec is performing (and of course even then it is liable to change). But consider this. For players with even a modest ability, BM is currently by far the worst hunter raiding spec for WotLK. It seriously handicaps your DPS. In present Live Server conditions, it just isn't an option. Chances are that it will continue to be the "intro" spec and not deal top damage. So there you are in your 10/25 man raid, yes, you are buffing the raid, but your DPS is poo. Hunters are rapidly going to get the Huntard name again. I could understand it if we had 3 specs now, but is it really going to be strong enough to remove Survival from the dual spec?

[bingolotta]

Is it just me, or are the hunter pets actually turning into Pokémons?

[Spike`]

Then may I ask what class does? Because all buffs appear to be present on 3 or more classes now.

Priests probably will not concur with you

[Eviscerate]

It's funny how noobs can overreact to everything without even reading or understanding properly.

The fact is, only Beast Mastery Hunters are getting the most useful or OP pet buffs. For MM or Survival. the pet buff they are getting aren't that great at all.

So if you are a hunter, you have to make a choice if you want to go BM and get your own bloodlust for raiding. Also, take note that BM spec was a failed spec in ICC raiding. So unless BM turns out to be a competitive spec, I wouldn't say that they are OP. Personally, the way things are right now for hunters, MM is still the best raiding spec for Cata.

BM Hunters getting their own BL isn't worth QQ'ing. They are just gonna get a better chance of joining a raid. Just like how shamans are right now in ICC, they can give BL, but can never be on the top of the DPS chart.

[Deleted]

No offense, but if you think the only thing that makes the Shaman stand out was its ability to be guaranteed a raid spot (skilled or not) because of an oft-considered important buff to the raid itself, then I'm afraid you don't deserve the buff, either.
Not to say there aren't really good Shaman out there. I'm just saying that I would rather be put on standby because we had a Shaman that was, for all intents and purposes, better than me than being put on standby because a Shaman is required with lust in order to clear the boss we're at currently. That is a situation we all would rather be in, I think.

In the end, Hunters could very well never need to use Blust. I very rarely end up in a group that doesn't have either a Mage or a Shaman, but if I do, then I would gladly switch my spec to BM with a corehound in order to give the raid that buff. The only time we gain a benefit from it is when a Shaman or Mage is not in the group. If they are, then we're either using a different pet or using a different spec entirely, because there would be no point.

Tying the ability into a pet that requires a spec to use is more like saying "Hey, we're backup lust in case there is no Mage or Shaman in the group currently." It's not a game-breaker, and I can assure you that the Corehound will not be our top DPS pet. Not by a long shot. Even as BM, if we have a choice, we will probably still go with a Devilsaur if we don't need to provide lust, if the current game is any indication.

I have a few things to say about this.
Like I said before, Bloodlust is a class-defining ability. It is one of the very few abilities of the Shaman that are currently still unique. In fact, almost all of our totems are overwritten by other skills from other classes; in some cases, this causes Bloodlust to be the only unique thing we bring to a raid! Because of this fact, I'm certain that if Blizzard continues with giving their unique abilities to other classes, they will become an obsolete class. And I don't want to have to reroll to a class I don't like, just so I can actually play the game!
Let me give an example. If a raid group were to pick an evenly geared Shaman or Mage for a raid, who would they pick? Naturally, they would pick the Mage; Not only do they have their unique raid-wide buff, they also deal more damage then Shamans with equal gear level! As for PvP, the same applies - Shamans have very few ways of getting away, while Mages have many. Now, let's include the Hunter on this list: While I believe that they have about the same damage output as Shamans in equal gear, in PvP they have a lot more survivability due to their talents and playstyle, which still makes them preferred over a Shaman in that aspect!

Make the stand all you want, it's not your game and if you don't like it simple solution for ya: QUIT!
Should hunters have made the "stand" when you totem dropping freaks were given ghost wolves?

I for one welcome the change, no longer does my raid have to carry bad shamans just for BL, or find a retarded priest for fort. Now we can pick and choose.

The same applies for you, Archer. And no, Hunters don't have to make a stand about Ghost Wolves. Why? Only Enhancement spec gets them, they only last for a number of seconds, they aren't controllable by the player itself, and they have a long cooldown! Does your pet have all that? I don't think so. Ghost Wolves are of no competition to Hunter pets at all.
As for quitting, I still like this game. That is why I pay money for it. Yet for that money I also expect to get something in return, instead of my preferred class being made obsolete by stupid and unneccesary changes like this! And like I said before, I do not want to reroll to a class I don't like just so I can actually play the game.
With all due respect, making that comment practically showed how unexperienced you are with playing a Shaman. Believe me when I say this; In our current state of affairs, Bloodlust is a neccesary spell for Shamans. Giving it to other, more powerful classes without getting anything new and unique in return it just going to ruin the class... I'd easily compare it to removing Hunter pets from the game, It would just make them worthless!

[Riboflavin]

yes it's terrible that other classes have tremor totem....wait what..

[Falcio]

I have a few things to say about this.
Like I said before, Bloodlust is a class-defining ability. It is one of the very few abilities of the Shaman that are currently still unique. In fact, almost all of our totems are overwritten by other skills from other classes; in some cases, this causes Bloodlust to be the only unique thing we bring to a raid! Because of this fact, I'm certain that if Blizzard continues with giving their unique abilities to other classes, they will become an obsolete class. And I don't want to have to reroll to a class I don't like, just so I can actually play the game!
Let me give an example. If a raid group were to pick an evenly geared Shaman or Mage for a raid, who would they pick? Naturally, they would pick the Mage; Not only do they have their unique raid-wide buff, they also deal more damage then Shamans with equal gear level! As for PvP, the same applies - Shamans have very few ways of getting away, while Mages have many. Now, let's include the Hunter on this list: While I believe that they have about the same damage output as Shamans in equal gear, in PvP they have a lot more survivability due to their talents and playstyle, which still makes them preferred over a Shaman in that aspect!

And I say again, if the only thing that makes the Shaman stand out is a spell that, for some fights, is required in order to even clear the fight, then there's a really big problem here.

A class should be able to feel unique, but they shouldn't feel like they should get special treatment because of that one thing that only they can bring, and that's really how the Shaman class is now. If I'm vying for a spot against a Shaman, why should they take me when the Shaman has a buff that is required for some fights to succeed? No matter how much DPS I do over the Shaman, I would be cut for him, because his buff benefits every single raid member. It's completely unfair, and something that's been said since Wrath beta with the advent of "bring the player, not the class."

It's not fair to other players that the Shaman would always edge out on them not due to skill, but due to utility. It's a completely terrible design.

To go on your example, let's also put up the example that the Shaman is a good player that has a cool attitude and disposition and pulls out really good numbers, while the pure DPS Mage has a very lousy attitude and complains about every single detail from other players while assuming that they cannot make any mistakes at all, but also pulls good numbers. In this example, I would honestly pick the Shaman.
On the flipside, let's say that my raid group consists of 24 really great DPS, but we have to have a Shaman who refuses to play by the rules, continuously AFKs, and his only real benefit to the raid is the unleashing of lust after much hassling. In this current raid environment, the raid leader will either try and find another Shaman to replace him, or just deal with him with the logic that he's bringing a buff that is needed for the encounter at hand. In the Cataclysm environment, the Shaman in my example can no longer act like that and not expect a real punishment in the form of not being able to raid half-heartedly.

Of course, these examples are two extremes. There are going to be cases where a Mage and a Shaman, both with good attitudes and good gear, will be vying for a spot in a raid and one of them will be cut. It's just how things work, and it'll be a tough decision for a lot of people, too.

Look, I understand your plea. I get that you think it'll create a problem in the natural balance of the game. But trust me when I say that, in all intents and purposes, it's good for the game. Blizzard, I would hope, is not doing this change to harm Shamans, but to help the raid groups on a whole. And because of the lost must-have-in-raid utility, it creates a drive to them to make sure that Shamans stay competitive in both healing and DPS. Trust me, if you really do love the class, then you can remain that class. If you're a strong player and your attitude is sound for your raid leader, then you will get your spot. It creates a drive of excellence to know that you must perform to your class's best to be given that raid spot. It makes you appreciate that class more.

[Anium]

When I read that Mages would get their own Bloodlust, I grumbled, but I didn't protest.
Now, however, I feel that a huge border is being crossed.



WHAT
THE
HELL?!

What on earth is wrong with Blizzard?! Hunters do not need a Bloodlust. Hell, they don't deserve one!
Bloodlust is one of the very few remaining key spells left which make the Shaman stand out, and I am strongly against handing it out to all the other classes out there. Sure, Shamans were considered OP once, but this was back in Vanilla when Frost Shock was still strong! We've passed that point, yet still they continue to take abuse over, and over, and over...

And for you sceptics who say that Shamans still have totems, who cares if they do? The buffs they give are only mediocre, we only really use a handful of the thouzands of totems we recieve, and they die in one hit.

While I (reluctantly) allow Mages to have Bloodlust, I'm going to have to make a stand here.
SAY NO TO HUNTERS WITH BLOODLUST!!!

You're a fool.