"Balanced at 85"

[Danur]

Just reminding all of you, who respond to every 4.0 bug and complaint thread with, "It is all meant to be balanced at 85," as if you are imparting some elusive wisdom upon the community who obviously weren't aware that the game is now meant to be "balanced at 85," all I can say to you is...

...you are an idiot and have no idea how this game works.

•*If something is doing too much damage because it is scaling too much, it will NOT BE BALANCED AT 85, because it will only be that much more powerful when wearing level 85 gear. Scaling is relative. If it's OP now, it will be OP then.

•*If something is doing too much healing because it is scaling too much, it will NOT BE BALANCED AT 85, because it will only be that much more powerful when wearing level 85 gear. Scaling is relative. If it's OP now, it will be OP then.

The only time you can actually use the "it's balanced around 85" is when discussing class vs class mechanics where some classes are missing out on some of their more important abilities and talents that help keep them in line with each other for end-game PvP and Raiding. Stop thinking you are some kind of genius because you can quote meaningless catch-phrases that you heard others say on the forums, every time someone complains that your class is too unkillable or one of your abilities hits too hard.

[Frozenbeef]

there is no point fixing somthing that will change drastically in 1+months?

[Danur]

there is no point fixing somthing that will change drastically in 1+months?

I feel quite the opposite. I'd hope they'd move their asses and fix these issues before that month passes and we go into the new expansion with a broken game.

[Kalyyn]

except that the stat spread will be completely different and over twice as much of the item budget is going to go to stamina, meaning that all damage will be scaled back massively in relation to health. So long story short, you're wrong.

[ComputerNerd]

It is not as simple as saying that level 85 will fix it.
Resilience was supossed to fix pvp, and two expansions later it still has not.
There have been far too few players at 85 to really get an idea of how it will play out.
Even on the beta numbers are being tweaked and changed every build, many of which do not even see the light of day.
If those "balanced" numbers are still being so dramatically adjusted, then it most certainly means they are not ready, and that does have an impact on the level 80 experience.
Even through a large portion of wrath we were seeing level 80 balance changes, so really if anything we never see that balance.

Bug threads are something else entirely, so don't lump those together with nerf x class threads.

[Danur]

except that the stat spread will be completely different and over twice as much of the item budget is going to go to stamina, meaning that all damage will be scaled back massively in relation to health. So long story short, you're wrong.

Level 80: You do 10,000dmg with a short CD ability to my 30k health pool. I cry "OP plz nerf." You claim it will be balanced at 85.

Level 85: You do 25kdmg with that same short CD ability to my now 90k health pool. Balanced at 85?

Yay there will be more stam in relation to Int/Agi/Str on gear. That will not fix overscaling issues, and to argue that they will reminds me of people going on about how Arc mages and Ret pallies were "Scaled for 80" when they were exploding handfuls of people at a time at 70. We all saw how well "balanced at 80" they were when Wrath rolled out.

tl;dr version: You're wrong.

[George Costanza]

4.0.1 = 80 4.0.3 = 85, so why not balance things in 4.0.1 for 80 and balance things at85 in 4.0.3

[Jackiemoans]

except that the stat spread will be completely different and over twice as much of the item budget is going to go to stamina, meaning that all damage will be scaled back massively in relation to health. So long story short, you're wrong.

This

[Amaranthus]

Good sir, are you in the beta?

[ramoth]

except that the stat spread will be completely different and over twice as much of the item budget is going to go to stamina, meaning that all damage will be scaled back massively in relation to health. So long story short, you're wrong.

this.. do some research and see how much damage players are putting out at level 85.. right now in heroic gear 10-15k dps... if they are lucky some much much less than that but everyone has a health pool of 70000+

"this game is balanced right now around level 85"

[Riavan]

It's true, the more intelligent of us know that this is blizzards cover for "we will fix it maybe later when you've been 85 for a while".

[Seekzor]

Danur I guess wotlk is your first experience with the game, because if not you would know that it's not the first time something like this happened. You saw this in both the previous expansions and it did turn out somewhat fine at max lvl. Of course the game wasn't directly perfectly tuned but there is no point doing any major changes now since it WILL be completely different at level 85 wether you think so or not. Something OP now can be balanced then and the other way around. Trying to fix something now would just mess it up more.

[Borigrad]

infact, if you had an understanding of weapon damage, stat degradation, and spell power amounts assumed to crit rating and haste you would know you were wrong.

as weapon damage doubles so will physical damage, but it will balance out because we will have less crit and haste.

Spell power will be about 1.5 times higher but once again less haste and crit.

healing will be he same health pools will be higher.

it is balanced at 80, right now the numbers on gear is so high in retrospect to what it used to be.

thank you very much and a have a nice day, do a little research and have a little understanding before you call us stupid.

[TheBloodKrayze]

Danur I guess wotlk is your first experience with the game, because if not you would know that it's not the first time something like this happened. You saw this in both the previous expansions and it did turn out somewhat fine at max lvl. Of course the game wasn't directly perfectly tuned but there is no point doing any major changes now since it WILL be completely different at level 85 wether you think so or not. Something OP now can be balanced then and the other way around. Trying to fix something now would just mess it up more.

Not really lol, sure it has happened but not to this extent. I mean the burst casters can put out now is even worse then what Rets were doing in 3.0

[Deleted]

Just reminding all of you, who respond to every 4.0 bug and complaint thread with, "It is all meant to be balanced at 85," as if you are imparting some elusive wisdom upon the community who obviously weren't aware that the game is now meant to be "balanced at 85," all I can say to you is...

...you are an idiot and have no idea how this game works.

•*If something is doing too much damage because it is scaling too much, it will NOT BE BALANCED AT 85, because it will only be that much more powerful when wearing level 85 gear. Scaling is relative. If it's OP now, it will be OP then.

•*If something is doing too much healing because it is scaling too much, it will NOT BE BALANCED AT 85, because it will only be that much more powerful when wearing level 85 gear. Scaling is relative. If it's OP now, it will be OP then.

The only time you can actually use the "it's balanced around 85" is when discussing class vs class mechanics where some classes are missing out on some of their more important abilities and talents that help keep them in line with each other for end-game PvP and Raiding. Stop thinking you are some kind of genius because you can quote meaningless catch-phrases that you heard others say on the forums, every time someone complains that your class is too unkillable or one of your abilities hits too hard.

do you have some idea what scaling means? If there is base damage high + small scaling part ability will not be OP with 100k HP but its OP with 30k HP.

For example Paladin Exorcism ~2000 base damage + 26% SP means that ability is hitting for (3000 damage)10% of HP in WoTLK but due to small scaling it will be hitting only for 5% (5000damage) in wraht.....

Same with other OP abilities now they have high base damage.

[xalenthas]

Not really lol, sure it has happened but not to this extent. I mean the burst casters can put out now is even worse then what Rets were doing in 3.0

Then again the stat ratings from 80 to 85 are scaling more than has ever happened before too.

[Seekzor]

Not really lol, sure it has happened but not to this extent. I mean the burst casters can put out now is even worse then what Rets were doing in 3.0

Well that could easily be explained by pointing out that this is the biggest class overhaul since launch and the whole talent tree is aimed for being balanced at 85. Only seen people from playing only at level 80 complaining, not the people on the beta at level 85.

[cyrithor]

Few flaws in your logic sir.

Your example of 10k dmg to a 30k health pool, and then 25k to a 90k health pool. From what I can see damage isn't doubling, not even close. Most classes are doing just a little more than they are doing now with what gear has been found in the beta.

So yes, 10k damage to 30k health is a bit crazy right now

but 14k damage to 90k health, is a bit more how its..basically always been? level 60 geared rogue crit for 600 average, thats an average. and most people in vanilla had what? 5k health? not much difference just bigger numbers.

Second, combat ratings are going up more than they ever have in an expansion

From 60 to 70 crit scaled 14 crit rating = 1 crit to 22 crit rating = 1 crit at 70. A marginal change honestly.
From 70 to 80 it went from 22 rating = 1 crit to 45 rating. This was a big change, more than double the rating.
now take a look at how much you need for 85.

179 crit rating for 1 percent chance to crit. almost 4 times more rating needed, and ALL combat ratings are like this. and from what i can tell from the current epics that have been found, there isnt 4 time more of anything other than stamina. stamina has basically no budget now thought so once we hit raids health pools are going to start sky rocketing and damage is going to be slowly going up in comparison.

[Ekeln]

Just reminding all of you, who respond to every 4.0 bug and complaint thread with, "It is all meant to be balanced at 85," as if you are imparting some elusive wisdom upon the community who obviously weren't aware that the game is now meant to be "balanced at 85," all I can say to you is...

...you are an idiot and have no idea how this game works.

•*If something is doing too much damage because it is scaling too much, it will NOT BE BALANCED AT 85, because it will only be that much more powerful when wearing level 85 gear. Scaling is relative. If it's OP now, it will be OP then.

•*If something is doing too much healing because it is scaling too much, it will NOT BE BALANCED AT 85, because it will only be that much more powerful when wearing level 85 gear. Scaling is relative. If it's OP now, it will be OP then.

The only time you can actually use the "it's balanced around 85" is when discussing class vs class mechanics where some classes are missing out on some of their more important abilities and talents that help keep them in line with each other for end-game PvP and Raiding. Stop thinking you are some kind of genius because you can quote meaningless catch-phrases that you heard others say on the forums, every time someone complains that your class is too unkillable or one of your abilities hits too hard.

Blizzard can scale shit on a level for level basis. It's not that spell ranks are gone, perse, just that now there's 85 of them. They can have the scaling change dramatically upon dinging 81.

[Cerus]

@OP:

You are the idiot sir who doesn't understand how the game works. By your logic - Paladins and the rest of the healers should be OP @85 - well guess what? They aren't. Why? Scaling - the right kind of scaling. Not the twisted and completely inaccurate concept you have of it.

Mages were nerfed on live to bring them down to other classes and those changes were reverted on Beta because they were doing sub-par DPS. What you and the rest of the idiots who make threads or posts like this thing that scaling is 100% the same for every level and/or do not understand what scaling really is.

Balanced @85 means one thing and one thing only. The new talents, spells and mechanics we have now in 4.0.1 were designed for level 85 players. For example: A rocket launcher against a kitten=obliterated kitten. A rocket launcher against a tank=singed armor plating. Same attack or spell (in relation to WoW) has two different effects against against a level 80 player (kitten) and a level 85 one (tank) because of scaling.

Every class received new talents and abilities with level 85 in mind and those abilities have a much greater impact at the current level cap. Co-efficients, spell ranks (they still exist, they're just not trained anymore) gear, target HP, resistances, defense etc etc.

Short version: Just because spell A is OP against target X at 80 does NOT mean it will be against target Y at 85.