Sub Rogue weapons, rotations, and cata...

[Frozenreaper]

What are we doing PvE wise because I'm still kinda lost on weapons and idk about how strong the rotation is anymore... Help?

[Synexlol]

Premed>Garrote>Hemo>Rupture>Backstab to 5>Recup>Pool energy then ShD>Double Ambush>SnD>Ambush>Premed>Evisc>Double Ambush>Evisc>Continue with Backstab as main Combo Builder and keep Hemo dot up (24s).

Slow as possible Main hand Dagger/Fast as possible off hand weapon. Weapon type for OH is irrelevant, 277 1.5 is better than 264 1.4 speed.

[Bobbojonno]

the rotation is really very tough.. i am hoping that if you can work it out that theres some competitive dps in there

[Krid]

I'm going to sense an aggro issue with all of the huge crits.

[Frozenreaper]

Ok Thanks, I was really confused because I'm using the old sub rotation lol and it sucked pretty bad XD. But now I was using a sword OH and it was better than my fast OH (Was using lung breaker now using Heroic Bloodvenom blade.) So thanks on those 2 parts. Now what will be happening for cata? Will we have to change everything a little for when we get to 85 or will we still be kosher.

[Sesshou]

Ok Thanks, I was really confused because I'm using the old sub rotation lol and it sucked pretty bad XD. But now I was using a sword OH and it was better than my fast OH (Was using lung breaker now using Heroic Bloodvenom blade.) So thanks on those 2 parts. Now what will be happening for cata? Will we have to change everything a little for when we get to 85 or will we still be kosher.

I'm not sure thats a good choice. Its true that a 1.5 axe can be better than a 1.4 dagger if the dps is different, but you are missing out on a massive amount of poison procs by using a 2.6 for only a small increase in white damage.

[Synexlol]

Always take a 1.8 dagger over a 2.6 sword. Always.

The DPS is there, but it's a lot of effort for what you would expect to be more DPS. You can pull nearly as much as Mutilate and with the added utility, I really like the spec.

[Frozenreaper]

I compared it on a dummy though that is the thing. And if anything wouldn't I keep deadly on the fast and instant on the slow? Same concept. I understand I will lose procs, but I don't think it will make that much of a difference. I'll have to retry it.

[Sesshou]

I compared it on a dummy though that is the thing. And if anything wouldn't I keep deadly on the fast and instant on the slow? Same concept. I understand I will lose procs, but I don't think it will make that much of a difference. I'll have to retry it.

You are greatly over-estimating white off-hand dps versus poison damage imo. Also a dummy isn't a particularly good way to test anything relating to actual dps.

[Frozenreaper]

I might be, But for now I have to go with what I got. Or till I can go back into ICC next week. I might even try it in RS if my server is running it...T_T lol I'll keep you posted with my findings. I would rather not have wasted those mats on the venom blade if I didn't have though. XD

[Evolixe]

Always take a 1.8 dagger over a 2.6 sword. Always.

The DPS is there, but it's a lot of effort for what you would expect to be more DPS. You can pull nearly as much as Mutilate and with the added utility, I really like the spec.

No.

If the white damage is at a certain significanse speed isnt a factor anymore. that would prolly be iLvl 232 and lower though.

[Synexlol]

For the record, you should be using Wound/Deadly, not Instant/Deadly.

Also, the difference between 1.5 and 1.4 is 1 extra hit per 10 seconds. That means that you will have 1 extra chance to proc your Deadly poison every 10 seconds, giving you a Wound poison proc. Also, as Subtlety, your off hand doesn't do much damage (Note Ambidexterity, the Combat passive).

As Sesshou said, dummies are only good for testing your rotation, buffs/boss debuffs make a big difference.

No.

If the white damage is at a certain significanse speed isnt a factor anymore. that would prolly be iLvl 232 and lower though.

A dagger of 1.4/1.8 will be better than a 2.6 unless there's quite a large ilvl gap (40+), I would say. I suppose I should have said that before.

[Frozenreaper]

Really wound poison? I never have seen wound poison for PvE tbh... I don't think any rogue on my server has done that lol. But ok and its a pretty big gap I would say and I tried my new weapon compared to my old weapon in RS... I did a bit better in all honesty.

[Krid]

Really wound poison? I never have seen wound poison for PvE tbh... I don't think any rogue on my server has done that lol. But ok and its a pretty big gap I would say and I tried my new weapon compared to my old weapon in RS... I did a bit better in all honesty.

wound poison used to be the poison for combat back in ulduar, i'm not sure about nax

[Synexlol]

We only used Instant Poison because there was a talent which increased it's proc rate (Which is now a passive for assassination). Without it, Wound is better.

And again, your dagger is better than the Sword, trust me. Whatever DPS you did with the Sword, you would have done better with the dagger.
You came here for help, you could at least accept that we are telling you the right things.

[Frozenreaper]

I did come here for help and I'm taking everyones help into consideration. I never said I was just going to blow it off Synexlol. I'll take the advice with the wound poison and I'll keep trying the dagger but time will tell which one is better.

[Krid]

I did come here for help and I'm taking everyones help into consideration. I never said I was just going to blow it off Synexlol. I'll take the advice with the wound poison and I'll keep trying the dagger but time will tell which one is better.

Or spreadsheet.

[Frozenreaper]

Or spreadsheet.

Or that... That works too :]

[Nartalath]

For all the work that is put into maximizing sub's dps, I feel that the end result isn't worth it: "viable" but just barely.

IMO the harder the rotation, the more dps it should bring to the table.

[Deleted]

well I found the "rotation" for sub too unpractical. In any encounter where you hav to pay attention to a lot of things its too hard to keep everything up. Especialy when moving or targetswitching is involved you're screwed since any mistake screws the whole rotation and results in a big dps loss. but the free cps you get with Honor among thieves in a raid are very neat, they make things alot easier.

but when I compare my rogue and what I hav to do to get 10k+ dps to my wl on same gear level its just lol. I can fail everything with my wl and will still do alot more dps than rolling a perfect rotation on my rogue.