4.0.3a - Rogues Back at the Top of the Meters

[Powerogue]

the changing of the stacking damage buff from 15% max to 30% max was quite significant. I do hope this doesn't call for another nerf by blizzard, I want to savor this. combat is still weak in burst damage due to having to stack that buff up, so I don't think it's overpowered.

not pulling 20k though >.> sheesh guys. I think I went up from 8k to 10k.

[Synexlol]

the changing of the stacking damage buff from 15% max to 30% max was quite significant. I do hope this doesn't call for another nerf by blizzard, I want to savor this. combat is still weak in burst damage due to having to stack that buff up, so I don't think it's overpowered.

not pulling 20k though >.> sheesh guys. I think I went up from 8k to 10k.

Combat is better than Mutilate for the first 65% of a fight now, and Mutilate is only 3% ahead of Combat overall now, statistically. Perhaps you are simply not playing/gearing right. It's one thing to jump on the "OMG We are underpowered, this is ridiculous" bandwagon, it's another thing altogether to stay on it after it stops.

[sabrelime]

Combat is better than Mutilate for the first 65% of a fight now, and Mutilate is only 3% ahead of Combat overall now, statistically. Perhaps you are simply not playing/gearing right. It's one thing to jump on the "OMG We are underpowered, this is ridiculous" bandwagon, it's another thing altogether to stay on it after it stops.

This is exactly why EJ should have their information easier to access, even if it means pandering to those who are lazy, because in many cases you actually have to dig around to find certain things and most people aren't going to do it so they still think combat sucks and in this case it is easy to find on EJ information that says otherwise.

---------- Post added 2010-12-02 at 10:40 PM ----------

patchwerk was a straight dps race with no adds...i thought combat did more single target dps given a long enough encounter. Though i checked again and it also says in the burn phase with murderous intent assassination starts pulling ahead again.

Yes mutilate still wins on a patchwerk like fight because of murderous intent.

[Synexlol]

This is exactly why EJ should have their information easier to access, even if it means pandering to those who are lazy, because in many cases you actually have to dig around to find certain things and most people aren't going to do it so they still think combat sucks and in this case it is easy to find on EJ information that says otherwise.

Yeah, I totally agree. Having to dig through pages and pages of random mechanics discussion to find the one piece of information you're looking for is not effective. Thankfully most of the very important information is in stickies, but not everyone browses EJ at all.

[Sesshou]

patchwerk was a straight dps race with no adds...i thought combat did more single target dps given a long enough encounter. Though i checked again and it also says in the burn phase with murderous intent assassination starts pulling ahead again.

If you check again again, you will see it says assassination is ahead over all by ~3%.

[Deleted]

Combat is 3% behind Mutilate assuming a perfect rotation. It's still too low in my opinion when you factor in the more complex execution. It will be interesting to see how it pans out at 85 but I think the number of people playing Combat is going to plummet.

[Lithios]

yay, ~16.5k on are first H Halion kill. Cant wait till level 85.

[Sesshou]

yay, ~16.5k on are first H Halion kill. Cant wait till level 85.

Congrats. I'm envious... my guild hasn't had the drive to do anything but farm the easier stuff to gear out alts...

[roosterfu]

That 3% with a perfect rotation could become a lot more like 5-10%. I think assas. would be more forgiving if you screwed up the rotation than combat? Especially on target switching or movement fights.

[Aonix]

Enjoy for at long it lasts , so much passive dmg from abilities .. -.-

[Sesshou]

That 3% with a perfect rotation could become a lot more like 5-10%. I think assas. would be more forgiving if you screwed up the rotation than combat? Especially on target switching or movement fights.

No, those numbers are assuming a perfect rotation already, therefore the gap between the two would not change if you had a perfect rotation.

I think assassination has a less forgiving rotation because your 2 most used finishers, envenom and rupture, account for a very, very large amount of your damage. In comparison the only finisher for combat that accounts for a very, very large amount of damage is slice and dice, and SnD is not really a most used finisher since it lasts a rather long time.

Also having things drop off on target switches or necessary movement is not screwing up a rotation.

[Asotcha]

this is encouraging news tyvm for bringing it up!

[Jerakal]

Rogues better, but still underpowered.

This, always this.

I will not rest until I can one-shot a paladin and flick a cigarette onto his corpse.

[ramajuko]

The pure DPS classes SHOULD be at the top of the meters. I've seen the top mages in the world doing ~30k on combat logs, if rogues aren't up there with them (with hunters and locks slightly behind) there's a problem.

[Sesshou]

The pure DPS classes SHOULD be at the top of the meters. I've seen the top mages in the world doing ~30k on combat logs, if rogues aren't up there with them (with hunters and locks slightly behind) there's a problem.

Wait, you say pure dps should be at the top. Hunters and locks are pure dps. Whats your logic as to why they should be behind other pure dps?

[sethg]

yes because progression and dps at this point in this expansion pack's life is accurate. Just be patient and untwist your panties.

[sabrelime]

yes because progression and dps at this point in this expansion pack's life is accurate. Just be patient and untwist your panties.

So did you just read the OP and post a reply without looking at anything else discussed in this thread? What exactly is the point of that, could you explain it to me?

You don't think in 6 pages the OP's point has probably been already been discussed and there is a discussion beyond it? Your post is meaningless and contributes nothing to the conversation.

[pervox]

Not only are we still somewhat behind most of the other dps (even hybrids) classes, but we'll probably end up being nerfed as usual. I seriously think that Ghostcrawler loves to bend us over and stick it there just for the sake of it.

[Deleted]

No, those numbers are assuming a perfect rotation already, therefore the gap between the two would not change if you had a perfect rotation.

I think assassination has a less forgiving rotation because your 2 most used finishers, envenom and rupture, account for a very, very large amount of your damage. In comparison the only finisher for combat that accounts for a very, very large amount of damage is slice and dice, and SnD is not really a most used finisher since it lasts a rather long time.

Also having things drop off on target switches or necessary movement is not screwing up a rotation.

Wat. Have you even played both specs post-4.0.1 or are you perhaps just making idle speculation? Having played both specs in a raid situation I can say without hesitation that Assassination is by far the more forgiving rotation now, mainly because it's much less frenetic in terms of preventing energy capping. Combat is going to be highly stressful to play in difficult encounters when you are having to think about Bandit's Guile, varying cooldowns, Revealing Strike at exactly 4cps only, keeping both S&D and rupture up instead of just rupture as with assa, for example. The only valid point you could make is that the difference between the Wrath evisc-only Combat rotation and the new rotation is a mere ~2% so you could possibly just ignore these mechanics, and I'd speculate that even if you don't ignore them the execution difficulty will amount to the same in terms of dps loss. So in reality Combat is a good 5% behind and supplemented with all the other problematic mechanics I would expect it to be an inferior choice, some brief analysis of WoL logs post-4.0.3a suggests that spec inequality is already quite tangible.

[AedanWolfe]

Wat. Have you even played both specs post-4.0.1 or are you perhaps just making idle speculation? Having played both specs in a raid situation I can say without hesitation that Assassination is by far the more forgiving rotation now, mainly because it's much less frenetic in terms of preventing energy capping. Combat is going to be highly stressful to play in difficult encounters when you are having to think about Bandit's Guile, varying cooldowns, Revealing Strike at exactly 4cps only, keeping both S&D and rupture up instead of just rupture as with assa, for example. The only valid point you could make is that the difference between the Wrath evisc-only Combat rotation and the new rotation is a mere ~2% so you could possibly just ignore these mechanics, and I'd speculate that even if you don't ignore them the execution difficulty will amount to the same in terms of dps loss. So in reality Combat is a good 5% behind and supplemented with all the other problematic mechanics I would expect it to be an inferior choice, some brief analysis of WoL logs post-4.0.3a suggests that spec inequality is already quite tangible.

I think what he was getting at is that combat maybe be more frenetic but a screwup doesnt cost as much dps as assassination would.