Darkmoon Card: Tsunami (and other healing trinkets)

[Deleted]

I've already picked up the Jar of ancient remedies and was considering what to do with my next emblem purchase, whilst the cho'gal trinket might be a possibility i suspect there will be a lot of competition for it, and it MIGHT not drop for a long time.
which leaves me with: darkmoon card or core of ripeness?

anyone done any theory work on how these 2 compare? I'm struggling to find info about the uptime of darkmoon card. (fwiw i will be funding the darkmoon card by selling the BoE boots from emblems)

EDIT: disc spec

[Syrrah]

Uh, the uptime on Tsunami is 100%, as long as you cast a spell before the stacks wear off, which should not be a challenge.

[Pullup]

Tsunami not worth it.
Wait for chogal.

[muto]

I've already picked up the Jar of ancient remedies and was considering what to do with my next emblem purchase, whilst the cho'gal trinket might be a possibility i suspect there will be a lot of competition for it, and it MIGHT not drop for a long time.
which leaves me with: darkmoon card or core of ripeness?

anyone done any theory work on how these 2 compare? I'm struggling to find info about the uptime of darkmoon card. (fwiw i will be funding the darkmoon card by selling the BoE boots from emblems)

EDIT: disc spec

If your guild is smart they will give it to the healer struggling with mana the most. Just my opinion. If no one is struggling with mana then give it to the person who would benefit the most from it, ie. the person it would be the biggest upgrade for.

[Kalmah]

Tsunami not worth it.
Wait for chogal.

The cho'gall trinket is worse.

[Deleted]

From the 2nd of January I'll be using Tsunami and Jar of Ancient Remedies, and I can't wait.

[Deleted]

Uh, the uptime on Tsunami is 100%, as long as you cast a spell before the stacks wear off, which should not be a challenge.

it says 'chance' on heal. unlike solace.
I havn't seen any numbers to say what that chance is, but if it's <10% then it's unlikely to have a 100% uptime.

[Kaesebrezen]

it says 'chance' on heal. unlike solace.
I havn't seen any numbers to say what that chance is, but if it's <10% then it's unlikely to have a 100% uptime.

If we go after wowhead, the chance is 100%.

[vizzle]

The cho'gall trinket is worse.

No it's not, it has a very short ICD that makes it better than every other trinket besides Shard of Woe. The Tsunami trinket is also just terrible, not worth the 10-20k they are being sold for at all.

[Deleted]

Tbh the jar trinket is pretty crappy....there are by far better blue trinks out there like the one from last boss in stonecore (tear of blood i think).
As a resto shaman i have core of ripeness and the tear of blood one.
Mana isnt much of a prob tbh and the jar tring granting 6500 mana (wow..1 extra heal) or 500+ spirit for a bit seem useless compared to tears flat intel increase with a chance to proc spirit or the core one with its 1900+ spirit on use.

If i wait for tear of blood to proc, use core of ripeness then use mana tide totem (normally my weapon enchant proc is up too) i will get roughly 20k mp5 in a 10 man raid....so thats a hell of a lot of mana i regain every 3 minutes....and considering most boss fights are 6 minutes plus its mana heaven!.

I actually won the jar trink on our first maloriak downing...then decided to pass it to the druid who rolled next highest...he then worked out it wasnt for him and gave it to our disc priest who rolled a 7.

Get stonecore trink and core of ripeness for a healer...flat increase of 285 int plus 321 int which is 10k more in ur mana pool straight away...plus extra spirit..plus extra spellpower etc etc..so much more worth it....unless u like the purple colour and it ups your gearscore!

[Mr_Bojangles]

I like core of ripeness, because I can always combo it with mana tide totem for unreal returns on mana. If you are likely to go without mana tide, then go for tsunami.

Edit: Using the core on CD it's worth a static 321 mana, while tsunami you will have a static 400 mana. You need mana tide to make it worth it. Personally, come the fair I will be using both.

Second edit: The core on mana tide CD is worth a static 535 spirit. Realistically a lil less based on your reaction time of popping the trinket as soon as mana tide goes down.

[Deleted]

Tbh the jar trinket is pretty crappy....there are by far better blue trinks out there like the one from last boss in stonecore (tear of blood i think).
As a resto shaman i have core of ripeness and the tear of blood one.
Mana isnt much of a prob tbh and the jar tring granting 6500 mana (wow..1 extra heal) or 500+ spirit for a bit seem useless compared to tears flat intel increase with a chance to proc spirit or the core one with its 1900+ spirit on use.

If i wait for tear of blood to proc, use core of ripeness then use mana tide totem (normally my weapon enchant proc is up too) i will get roughly 20k mp5 in a 10 man raid....so thats a hell of a lot of mana i regain every 3 minutes....and considering most boss fights are 6 minutes plus its mana heaven!.

I actually won the jar trink on our first maloriak downing...then decided to pass it to the druid who rolled next highest...he then worked out it wasnt for him and gave it to our disc priest who rolled a 7.

Get stonecore trink and core of ripeness for a healer...flat increase of 285 int plus 321 int which is 10k more in ur mana pool straight away...plus extra spirit..plus extra spellpower etc etc..so much more worth it....unless u like the purple colour and it ups your gearscore!

Would you care to rephrase your post to make it relevant to this thread in the priest forum?
to reply to your comments anyway: i'm using jar because I go oom, therefore at the moment, it's good.

---------- Post added 2010-12-30 at 03:58 AM ----------

I like core of ripeness, because I can always combo it with mana tide totem for unreal returns on mana. If you are likely to go without mana tide, then go for tsunami.

Edit: Using the core on CD it's worth a static 321 mana, while tsunami you will have a static 400 mana. You need mana tide to make it worth it. Personally, come the fair I will be using both.

where did you take those numbers from may I ask? Interesting to know though, can you confirm that the darkmoon card has a 100% proc chance and is just badly worded in the tooltip?
Sidenote: does mana regen from spirit still scale with intellect since cata?

[Mr_Bojangles]

where did you take those numbers from may I ask? Interesting to know though, can you confirm that the darkmoon card has a 100% proc chance and is just badly worded in the tooltip?
Sidenote: does mana regen from spirit still scale with intellect since cata?

I got those numbers by using a calculator while my guild did trash. Not sure if the tsunami is 100% proc rate, but as long as it's 35% you can reasonably assume it will drop at most once per fight.

Edit: 20 Second buff duration with 120 second CD = 1/6th up time, 1926 / 6 = 321. Mana tide totem is a 12 second duration, so thats 12 seconds of high regen rate every 180 seconds = (1/15) * 1926 * 3.5 and 8 seconds of normal regen every 180 seconds = 1/22.5 * 1926

[Arcsecant]

Sidenote: does mana regen from spirit still scale with intellect since cata?

Yes the spirit mana regen forumla still has the squareroot of intellect in it I believe.

[Deleted]

i can confirm that the darkmoon cards proc chance is 100%, but it only proccs from direct heals (this includes coh/poh for a priest, one of those will give you all full stack of 5 buffs)
the jar also proccs from hot-ticks.
im currently using those two trinkets (as holy), and my plan is to stay with 2 regen trinkets in some form at last for the first tier of raids.
the darkmoon card will for sure stay at last until t12 content, the static int combined with 400 spirit on a 100% uptime (if you dont mess up) cant be beaten in current content. depending on the icd of fall of mortality it might beat the dmc, but you cant wear two of those.

conclusion: get the darkmoon card, its great !

[Arrelliana]

Would you care to rephrase your post to make it relevant to this thread in the priest forum?
to reply to your comments anyway: i'm using jar because I go oom, therefore at the moment, it's good.

---------- Post added 2010-12-30 at 03:58 AM ----------



where did you take those numbers from may I ask? Interesting to know though, can you confirm that the darkmoon card has a 100% proc chance and is just badly worded in the tooltip?
Sidenote: does mana regen from spirit still scale with intellect since cata?

I have the darkmoon card tsunami and it procs a full 5 stack off of CoH and I have according to WoL a 97.4% uptime on the chogall 25 man fight. But I can tell you from looking at my buffs it is always up if I am casting heals. The trinket for a holy priest is in excess of 417 mp5 currently in combat due to the spirit buff. The trinket is of course worth less to a disc priest as they don't benefit from spirit as much. But this is not a crappy trinket by any means.
The cho'gall trinket returns roughly 3348 mana over 15 seconds for a disc priest and 6026 mana for a holy priest. Depending upon the ICD of the trinket if it is 2 minutes that would be 140 mp5 for a disc priest or 251 mp5 for a holy priest. If the icd is 1 min then the numbers double to 280 mp5 and 502 mp5 respectively.

Core of ripeness is 186 mp5 for a disc priest on cd or 335 mp5 for a holy priest. If you combine this with mana tide the numbers are 558 mp5 for core of ripeness for disc priest and 1004 mp5 for a holy priest. This is counting only using it in conjuction with mana tide on a 3 min CD. (equals 8667 spirit for 20 seconds and I used my int pool (4801) to do the calculations.)

So being able to time the trinket with mana tide is much more valuable than having a random proc in my book.

regen = 0.016725 * sqrt(INT) * SPI

Disc gets 50% of spirit regen in combat and holy gets 90%. So even darkmoon card tsunami gets boosted during tide. The only reason I don't care for jar of ancient remedies is there is no throughput from int.

"Jar of Ancient Remedies = 79% up-time 515 spirit buff (203 mp/5, roughly) and a use effect worth 267.5 mp/5, totalling 470.5 MP/5. That is a lot. Coming in second is DMC:Tsunami, with 200 MP/5 from spirit stacking and 321 Int. That int is 5055 maximum mana (with kings or motw), or 25 MP/5 from replenishment + 84 MP/5 equivalency over the course of a 5-minute fight, totalling to around 309 MP/5. Look at the difference between first and second. (of course you get 321 SP with DMC, but still, that's a lot of mana return)."

A disc priest will benefit more from int trinkets than a holy priest.. Holy is definately a big consideration for jar imo with the spirit buff if it remains active. I still like the throughput that comes from having the extra int. As our characters grow in power with larger health pools more throughput is always needed to keep up.

[Faint Of Heart]

What's the verdict on Mandala of Stirring Patterns? I've just hit Exalted with Baradin's Wardens today and I haven't been able to find any information on this trinket.

[Deleted]

I have the darkmoon card tsunami and it procs a full 5 stack off of CoH and I have according to WoL a 97.4% uptime on the chogall 25 man fight. But I can tell you from looking at my buffs it is always up if I am casting heals. The trinket for a holy priest is in excess of 417 mp5 currently in combat due to the spirit buff. The trinket is of course worth less to a disc priest as they don't benefit from spirit as much. But this is not a crappy trinket by any means.
The cho'gall trinket returns roughly 3348 mana over 15 seconds for a disc priest and 6026 mana for a holy priest. Depending upon the ICD of the trinket if it is 2 minutes that would be 140 mp5 for a disc priest or 251 mp5 for a holy priest. If the icd is 1 min then the numbers double to 280 mp5 and 502 mp5 respectively.

Core of ripeness is 186 mp5 for a disc priest on cd or 335 mp5 for a holy priest. If you combine this with mana tide the numbers are 558 mp5 for core of ripeness for disc priest and 1004 mp5 for a holy priest. This is counting only using it in conjuction with mana tide on a 3 min CD. (equals 8667 spirit for 20 seconds and I used my int pool (4801) to do the calculations.)

So being able to time the trinket with mana tide is much more valuable than having a random proc in my book.

regen = 0.016725 * sqrt(INT) * SPI

Disc gets 50% of spirit regen in combat and holy gets 90%. So even darkmoon card tsunami gets boosted during tide. The only reason I don't care for jar of ancient remedies is there is no throughput from int.

"Jar of Ancient Remedies = 79% up-time 515 spirit buff (203 mp/5, roughly) and a use effect worth 267.5 mp/5, totalling 470.5 MP/5. That is a lot. Coming in second is DMC:Tsunami, with 200 MP/5 from spirit stacking and 321 Int. That int is 5055 maximum mana (with kings or motw), or 25 MP/5 from replenishment + 84 MP/5 equivalency over the course of a 5-minute fight, totalling to around 309 MP/5. Look at the difference between first and second. (of course you get 321 SP with DMC, but still, that's a lot of mana return)."

A disc priest will benefit more from int trinkets than a holy priest.. Holy is definately a big consideration for jar imo with the spirit buff if it remains active. I still like the throughput that comes from having the extra int. As our characters grow in power with larger health pools more throughput is always needed to keep up.

informative post, thanks.

[Kalmah]

No it's not, it has a very short ICD that makes it better than every other trinket besides Shard of Woe. The Tsunami trinket is also just terrible, not worth the 10-20k they are being sold for at all.

Show me some logs that show an uptime significantly better than 16% for Fall of mortality. That's what I see in my guild's logs, and it makes it equivalent to the valor point trinket which makes sense.

My numbers have Fall of mortality at 321 int + 321 average spirit, while DC: Tsunami is at 321 int + 400 average spirit.

[Arrelliana]

What's the verdict on Mandala of Stirring Patterns? I've just hit Exalted with Baradin's Wardens today and I haven't been able to find any information on this trinket.

The mandala is a regen trinket with a throughput proc. So strictly you are looking at the 321 spirit vs. the other trinkets. Overall the mastery is going to be less throughput than a straight int trinket as once again you are dealing with a proc. Mastery is much better for holy than disc atm so for holy you will see a boost to the echo of light as disc your shields will absorb more if you are casting them or critting. For discipline this trinket would be a no go in my book since they get less from spirit than holy does due to holy concentration.

For holy with the spirit buff it is definately an option but there are better choices out there. Procs for healing are just not great imo as you can't line them up with heavy damage phases or heroism etc. Vs. a dmc:tsunami... the mandala has 79 less spirit and you are trading 321 intellect for 1926 mastery on a proc? I think anyone would take the intellect.