Sub predictions for Q2, 2013

[xanzul]

Market Acceptance (from businessdictionary.com):

Condition in which a good or service satisfies the needs of a sufficiently large number of customers to continue or increase its production or availability.

Bolded the last part because they sure haven't been meeting that criteria in the Eastern market. Since, by the very definition, they aren't meeting market acceptance and the opposite of accept is reject, one can safely say the Eastern markets are rejecting WoW. 'nuff said.

Go back and troll WoW General forums, kthxbai.

My point is that it is clear as day that they are rejecting the subscription model not Mop and not even necessarily Wow. Care to point out any subscription based mmos that picked up a few million subscriptions in Asian markets that same quarter? No? Gee I wonder why.

---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 06:01 PM ----------

I was using source material to calculate the number of western subscribers, as that was the point of the discussion.

As the material points out ... there are estimatedly 3,5M subscribers in the West.

And in the end it all comes down to the fact you are scrambling to keep your hatred for Wow relevant somehow.

[Pann]

My point is that it is clear as day that they are rejecting the subscription model not Mop and not even necessarily Wow. Care to point out any subscription based mmos that picked up a few million subscriptions in Asian markets that same quarter? No? Gee I wonder why.

Why are they not rejecting Netease's other, much larger, games that use the same subscription system if it is the payment method that is the problem?

[theWocky]

Man, Jaylock gets banned a lot. Sheeez... I'm curious as to what he does to do it, but never really feel like reading through the (usually large) thread to see what he did.

[xanzul]

You need to calm down and read what is actually on the page in front of you neither of them are saying that Blizzard did not make a profit.

It was implied. You know it, I know it, and Osmeric certainly knows it because it is one of his usual tricks to deflect.

[Pann]

It was implied. You know it, I know it, and Osmeric certainly knows it because it is one of his usual tricks to deflect.

No it wasn't go back and read what was written.

[xanzul]

Unfounded nonsense. There is no indication anywhere that the MMO market has shrunk. College kids keep existing and will keep fueling the MMO market...

Nope. Sorry. In fact I bet if I were to dig around in one of your Wow hate threads I would find you saying the exact same thing. You people love to flip flop on which facts you are willing to admit to when it comes to pushing your Wow hate agenda.

[spectrefax]

My point is that it is clear as day that they are rejecting the subscription model not Mop and not even necessarily Wow. Care to point out any subscription based mmos that picked up a few million subscriptions in Asian markets that same quarter? No? Gee I wonder why.

Ok, you're still not comprehending what market rejection is. If WoW was a superior game, they would be purchasing their time slots (like they were last year) in the cafe's or however they do it and be playing. To them, as consumers, WoW is not offering enough value compared to the cost of playing. Hence, getting owned by f2p's.

The main point being... The VALUE/ENJOYMENT they receive from playing WoW is BELOW the COST incurred to play it. Also, they don't use sub based models over there. Which totally shatters your argument. GG

You also need to stop being so angry. It's very disturbing that you get this insanely, frothing-at-the-mouth emotional when people debate points about WoW that you don't like.

[Arbs]

Man, Jaylock gets banned a lot. Sheeez... I'm curious as to what he does to do it, but never really feel like reading through the (usually large) thread to see what he did.

I noticed it too, But from reading some of his posts, he was insulting people & not posting anything constructive is what I got.

[xanzul]

From what I have read Blizzard's failure to hold on the Chinese market was because MOP does not represent their culture instead it is a Western interpretation of Chinese culture.

If that were the case then why are the only games picking up players in that market free to play? In fact if Blizzard were trying to cater to that market they would have just used one of the usual popular Westernized themes their mmos use already and not an Asian theme. We got Mop because Blizzard wanted to flesh out Pandaren lore. That's it. Nothing more nothing less. It is insulting and bigoted to claim Mop is pandering to Asians and in all honesty mods need to start cracking down on posts like that.

[kirit0]

almost the same droop in subs 1.8 mil

[spectrefax]

almost the same droop in subs 1.8 mil

This guy gets it.

No matter how many people Xanzul (for some reason) gets away with cussing out on this forum or WoW General, WoW's still going to be posting record losses for the remainder of the year. Lol.

[xanzul]

I would like to see a Chinese game based on American stereotypes. Everyone is fat, everyone is loud, everyone is stupid, everyone wears jeans and all decisions in the game are based on Jesus. I wonder how well that game would do in America.

Infracted.

Are you fucking kidding me right now? This gets infracted but posts claiming Mop was trying to get Asian subscribers is just fine? Seriously? The entire point of his post was that type of mentality was insulting and racist.

---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 06:15 PM ----------

What I don't get is how some people seem to defend the "Losing subs, still much more than any other mmo, so its kay!". You think the developers of WoW sits at their offices working on new content thinks "it's kay, our goal isn't to maintain the subs, it's to lose as few as possible".

Mind you, I'm no WoW-hater, I just quit the game in Cata when I felt it was the same old shit over again after playing through vanilla-WotLK, where I can say objectively I had good and memorable experiences I will appreciate till I die in all of the games, I even had some in Cata before I quit. But developers and a game company can't defend them losing subs with "WE STILL GOT MORE THAN YOU SHITTY GAMES!", they work hard to at least maintain them, and something is apparently not working for them. It's a combination of not being able to pull new players in and keeping them older ones for longer than they currently do. I'm not saying WoW is dying, because it's such an aweful term, however, is the game evolving as fast as it should?

OT: I think with summer and Rift F2P in June and good releases in the autumn will lower the WoW-subs by at least the same as it did in the former quarter, again, it's a guesstimate.

No one is saying subscription loss is ok. Not one single person. No one. The point is even with losses the game is still pushing forward and not dead not even close not even by a long shot. Considering EQ1 is going on 15 years and its 19th expansion with significantly less than 8.3 million subscribers I think Wow will do just fine. That is the point you people continually willfully miss and refuse to consider.

[theWocky]

I don't know why people have to be in a WoW camp or a GW2 camp or Rift camp. WoW is old - it will continue to lose subs, but it doesn't mean it's a bad game. It's just that due to numerous factors, it's damn hard for it to bring back new players due to the expectations of younger gamers who were raised on consoles.

Add to this that "some" of the older gamers are moving on or just burnt out or had enough of one particular mmo, it's going to be a shrinking market. Subscribers will still grow and diminish, but it is definitely on a downward trend.

Me, personally, I like the "new" feeling of games. I love playing WoW killers on launch (if they're not too buggy) for the first month or two. Everyone's a nubcake and people generally work together and are helpful. Best time I have had in gaming is trying new mmo's. Aion, I confess, was grindy at launch and I nearly slit my wrists in frustration.

I miss my WoW druid, but I just don't feel like playing it enough to get back into the game - I'm one of the guys who got bored of WoW-type mmo's and then realized I just got bored of WoW. Some of my best times were spent in WoW, however. I think I spent almost 300 days on my druid, so me calling it a bad game would be laughable.

EDIT: Play what you enjoy and to hell with everyone else.

[xanzul]

Why are they not rejecting Netease's other, much larger, games that use the same subscription system if it is the payment method that is the problem?

And what are these "much larger games"? Funny how people are quick to mention Age of Wushu as evidence that Wow is dead because it is free to play despite being very new yet these "much larger games" no one can mention by name. Might it be because people like you are talking out of their ass?

[Pann]

If that were the case then why are the only games picking up players in that market free to play? In fact if Blizzard were trying to cater to that market they would have just used one of the usual popular Westernized themes their mmos use already and not an Asian theme. We got Mop because Blizzard wanted to flesh out Pandaren lore. That's it. Nothing more nothing less. It is insulting and bigoted to claim Mop is pandering to Asians and in all honesty mods need to start cracking down on posts like that.

I take it you have a break down of the Chinese MMO market to back up your claim that only F2P games are gaining subs? I never said that Blizzard was pandering to the Chinese by releasing MOP, this goes back to you actually reading what was written, simply that MOP has not been well received because it is a Western stereotype of Chinese culture.

And what are these "much larger games"? Funny how people are quick to mention Age of Wushu as evidence that Wow is dead because it is free to play despite being very new yet these "much larger games" no one can mention by name. Might it be because people like you are talking out of their ass?

Fantasy Westward Journey and Westward Journey II both operated by Netease and both bigger than WOW.

So what was the point? To say Benbos was looking at the wrong numbers? Ok but his point was Wow was making a profit and he wasn't wrong about that so showing that he looked at the wrong numbers proved what exactly if not to say Wow DIDN'T make a profit? Don't try to insult my intelligence because unlike you I actually know my facts here.

I don't know you'll have to ask them. But they did not write what you claimed.

[Galaddriel]

My point is that it is clear as day that they are rejecting the subscription model not Mop and not even necessarily Wow. Care to point out any subscription based mmos that picked up a few million subscriptions in Asian markets that same quarter? No? Gee I wonder why.[COLOR="red"]

Blade and Soul. $20 month sub fee, currently has more players than LoL in Korea.

[xanzul]

No it wasn't go back and read what was written.

So what was the point? To say Benbos was looking at the wrong numbers? Ok but his point was Wow was making a profit and he wasn't wrong about that so showing that he looked at the wrong numbers proved what exactly if not to say Wow DIDN'T make a profit? Don't try to insult my intelligence because unlike you I actually know my facts here.

---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 06:22 PM ----------

Ok, you're still not comprehending what market rejection is. If WoW was a superior game, they would be purchasing their time slots (like they were last year) in the cafe's or however they do it and be playing. To them, as consumers, WoW is not offering enough value compared to the cost of playing. Hence, getting owned by f2p's.

The main point being... The VALUE/ENJOYMENT they receive from playing WoW is BELOW the COST incurred to play it. Also, they don't use sub based models over there. Which totally shatters your argument. GG

You also need to stop being so angry. It's very disturbing that you get this insanely, frothing-at-the-mouth emotional when people debate points about WoW that you don't like.

Yeah ok. Whatever you say. I keep forgetting the only reason people could possibly leave Wow is because it is "crap" not because of many numerous other reasons having NOTHING to do with the game at all.

[mvaliz]

To early to say.

All I know is, if we don't hear a boost in subs by the end of the first week in July - that means subs either stayed the same or went down. 2nd quarter ends June 30th, and they get their initial figures a week after that. (See Pandaria subs increase announcement). Obviously they wait a month or so to compile the total quarterly report after each company gets their respective data in.

[docterfreeze]

6.8 mil?

Yeah. 6.8 mil.

[mvaliz]

Are you fucking kidding me right now? This gets infracted but posts claiming Mop was trying to get Asian subscribers is just fine? Seriously? The entire point of his post was that type of mentality was insulting and racist.

Racist = implied derogatory. I don't believe Pandaria is meant to be a "negative" stereotype of Chinese/asian culture. That guy CLEARLY was slamming every American stereotype out there.

The guy you quoted should've said "An American-based expansion involving a Wild-West desert theme with Bald Eagle people wearing cowboy hats" is a better lampoon of an "American expansion" WITHOUT being derogatory. :P