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  1. #941
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    It really, really should be. Vanilla was awesome yes, butnto act like it was the picture perfect MMORPG is a ridiculous sentiment. Why would anybody that honestly loves vanilla not want to see it remastered and improved whole of course keeping the true heart of design intact? (Minus being afraid that blizz would fk it up which I admit is a legit concern to have).

    And right now warlocks are the best dps in live, although admittedly rogues are suffering but that's a balancing issue not class design. Rogues were represented very heavily in vanilla not because they were the most fun, but because they were broken.
    The problem is, whose idea of perfect? You like transmog. I don't. Someone else wants lfr. Someone else wants balancing. Doing all that you end up with legion at level 60. That isn't what was asked for.

    And if blizzard can't even balance live, what makes you think they should try to balance classic?

  2. #942
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    The only thing I've personally advocated for is updated graphics for every thing. And balancing on live, while is still a bit faulty, is still light-years ahead of what vanilla balancing was. But rebalancing the classes I will admit could do so much more harm than good and for that reason I would be okay(ish) with them leaving them as they were. I wouldn't prefer it, but I understand the reasons why

    Also the snowball logic is a fallacy and doesn't lead to decent conversation.
    It's not a fallacy when we got live as proof to where changes lead.

  3. #943
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    You are talking about 13 years worth of changes and Dev swapping broski, that isn't exactly helping your point.
    and yet i have seen people ask for all of the following changes.

    LFR added.
    LFD added.
    Dungeons nerfed so that trash isn't as hard.
    Quests in Dungeon added into the dungeon (isntead of out in the world).
    Leveling Nerfed (exp requirements).
    the live quest helper added.
    mobs nerfed so they can be soloed.
    Transmog.
    Multiple raid difficulties.
    Class Balance. (at various levels, some want minor, some want major, some basically want classes to be like legion).
    Classes post vanilla added.
    Races post vanilla added.
    Class/race combinations post vanilla added.
    Flight.
    Mounts made cheaper/riding training made cheaper and at legion levels.
    Dual spec.
    AoE looting.
    Updated Graphics.
    Updated Character Models.
    Materials stacking to legion level (Mats, potions, etc).
    Bigger bags.
    Soul Shards/Arrows either removed or stack higher so they take up less space.

    and others as well.

    so again - its not just you asking for changes - you might be content with updated graphics, but what about everyone else? where do we draw the line? for me, the safest route, is to just allow ZERO changes.

  4. #944
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    You're not playing on a 2002 PC with 12" CRT monitor and dial-up connection? GO PLAY RETAIL!!!
    Lol, fuck. I'll need to shave before I play classic to and prob. Move back in with my parents.

  5. #945
    lol this thread now has the most replies in this subforum, apart from stickies and a poll.

    had i known this would blow up, I would have spent more time on it

  6. #946
    Quote Originally Posted by Legendix187- View Post
    Lol, fuck. I'll need to shave before I play classic to and prob. Move back in with my parents.
    YEa gotta get all that real classic experience.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AmethystRockstar View Post
    Why should people who want the game as it was, cater to those who turned the game into something we resent?
    Because even you guys can't agree it seems.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    I'm sure it boils down to 2 reasons why they are so against xmog. 1) So they can show off in SW/Org about how much raiding they do. 2) So they know who to attack on a PvP server so they don't get fucked up.

    You'd think they'd stop to realize that not everyone players on a PvP server and that people (yes, even in Vanilla) don't give a flying fuck what someone is wearing and want to style their character how they wish.
    You mean Ironforge and ORG.

  7. #947
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I don't give two shits what other people are talking about. You are talking to me no? Then use what I'm saying against me not other randoms as they have nothing to do with our discussion.

    At the end of the day nothing we say here will have an impact on what happens in classic servers. We are all just discussing to discuss. And again, your snowball is a logical fallacy that is purely conjecture and does nothing for our conversation.
    I'm referring to this thread in general. This thread is talking about how people tell those who want changes to go play retail.

    That's because each person wants just one or two little changes and they think there changes won't do much and you can ignore other people's changes. It doesn't work that way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    YEa gotta get all that real classic experience.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Because even you guys can't agree it seems.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You mean Ironforge and ORG.
    You guys can't even agree yourselves. Each of you has 1 or 2 things you want to add. The thing we agree on, at least is that changes should be limited to things that actually happened during vanilla. You guys want anything from graphics updated to LFR. And anything from aoe looting to class overhauls.

    At least we try to keep our changes limited to what occurred during vanilla. If we listened to you guys we would end up with legion set to vanilla levels. Not what we want in the slightest

  8. #948
    Quote Originally Posted by AceofH View Post
    I'm referring to this thread in general. This thread is talking about how people tell those who want changes to go play retail.

    That's because each person wants just one or two little changes and they think there changes won't do much and you can ignore other people's changes. It doesn't work that way.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You guys can't even agree yourselves. Each of you has 1 or 2 things you want to add. The thing we agree on, at least is that changes should be limited to things that actually happened during vanilla. You guys want anything from graphics updated to LFR. And anything from aoe looting to class overhauls.

    At least we try to keep our changes limited to what occurred during vanilla. If we listened to you guys we would end up with legion set to vanilla levels. Not what we want in the slightest
    I don't want to add anything. I Just laugh when ppl say they are going to relive something that isn't the same no matter how you spin it.

  9. #949
    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    You mean Ironforge and ORG.
    Woah woah woah, no I don't. I mean SW and Org. Ironforge is just....eww..no

  10. #950
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Woah woah woah, no I don't. I mean SW and Org. Ironforge is just....eww..no
    Yea but we know the hub was Ironforge. Unless you like showing off to mainly npcs.

  11. #951
    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    Yea but we know the hub was Ironforge. Unless you like showing off to mainly npcs.
    eh on a couple realms I played SW was pretty busy, though it did seem to shift to Ironforge as Vanilla went on, but by then I'd be horde mostly full time.

  12. #952
    All of this reminds me of the years leading up to 2017, were millenials were getting their way by crying wolf; like all those incidents where private business was forced to cater to demographics their religion(collective, because most view it as abhorrent) frowned upon, and now that the shoe is on the other foot theyre facing the backlash.

    Why cant you kids just let the adults have their "QoL"less cake? Is it so much of an issue that they have an experience you never got so you have to force them to participate in your game?

  13. #953
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcath View Post
    All of this reminds me of the years leading up to 2017, were millenials were getting their way by crying wolf; like all those incidents where private business was forced to cater to demographics their religion(collective, because most view it as abhorrent) frowned upon, and now that the shoe is on the other foot theyre facing the backlash.

    Why cant you kids just let the adults have their "QoL"less cake? Is it so much of an issue that they have an experience you never got so you have to force them to participate in your game?
    You just assume it is only millenials/children that are asking for a few QoL changes and don't stop to consider that it could be some older Vanilla players that would like to see a few QoL changes. You do realize even some of the most hardcore Vanilla fans are not all in agreement on what Vanilla is, what it should have and what they expect from Blizz.

  14. #954
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Upgraded graphics is not a feature being added.
    Only if optional. The modern models in WoW are, in my opinion, atrocious with awful animation.

    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    It is 100% possible to add a select few and non invasive QoL changes without adding lfr or lfd ya know. You keep going on that if we add one thing we than have to add the other 99. That's not how it works and we both know that, but you keep hiding behind it like so as to keep yourself from having to have an honest discussion.
    Eh. What you people think as "non-invasive" usually has long reaching consequences. And you are the ones walking away from the discussion when pointed out that your ideas will have much wider effects than you can imagine in your tunnel visioned worldview.

  15. #955
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    The people that want to relive classic have already shown they will do anything to bring as much shit from retail as they can including their toxic attitude and entitlements. I can only laugh when I think of the fights that will break out over a single pattern between two tailors :P
    Re-live implies that they have lived through classic before.

    It seems doubtful that a majority of those who claim they want classic - with or without QoL-changes (and there are suggestions both for increasing QoL (e.g. dual-spec) and for decreasing it (no addons)) - actually lived through it.

  16. #956
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Im against all people like you who busted our balls for years whining "oh I want classic".
    I stop you right there. I never asked for classic servers let alone "for years"...

    I'm one of those vanilla vets who played retail for years, watching the whole "legacy server" drama from a good distance with a lot of pop corn. Never really participate in any discussion about it until blizzard made the announcement. Blizzard said "no no no" for years so there was no point discussing possible change BEFORE even knowing if those servers will ever happen.
    Now we know they are coming, and people like me are out of the woods.

    I don't care if diehards think I'm not legit because I didnt play PServers or didn't sign the petition or never harrassed blizzard. Fuck them zealots. I know for a fact some PS players would be happy with changes, so diehards can shout "WE want pure cult 2004" all they want, they are wrong saying "WE". I can bet players ok with changes outnumbers the extrem purists that makes so much noise.

  17. #957
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    You just assume it is only millenials/children that are asking for a few QoL changes and don't stop to consider that it could be some older Vanilla players that would like to see a few QoL changes. You do realize even some of the most hardcore Vanilla fans are not all in agreement on what Vanilla is, what it should have and what they expect from Blizz.
    Exactly this.

    Many of the players, like myself, who played from vanilla until now recognize what a garbage state the game was in back in 2004. There's plenty of room for minor improvements and QoL fixes without undermining the core experience.

    The only problem is that there seems to be an extremely vocal group of people who won't accept anything other than Vanilla run off dialup on 2004 hardware. I mean, if I had to guess they'd probably be willing to move back into their parents' basement if it gave them a more "pure" experience, judging by how unwilling they are to consider even the smallest bug fixes.

  18. #958
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Re-live implies that they have lived through classic before.

    It seems doubtful that a majority of those who claim they want classic - with or without QoL-changes (and there are suggestions both for increasing QoL (e.g. dual-spec) and for decreasing it (no addons)) - actually lived through it.
    Why it seems doubtful to you? Actually I believe otherwise is true. Most of the people, who lived through Vanilla recognize, that Vanilla WoW is a shit in some aspects. QoL changes, if done right, wont ruin your experience and may improve experience for many others...and even for those, who never played Vanilla.

    I am old enough to remember very clearly what WoW Vanilla was. I sunk thousands hours into it as many others. And while I doubted, that we will ever see something like WoW Classic, my sign is under the famous petition, in every poll, which asked, if people would play Vanilla even these days, you can find my meaningless "yes" and yet, I still believe some QoL changes should be brought into the classic. And I feel, from community reactions, I am not in minority by any means.

  19. #959
    Quote Originally Posted by rewhaha View Post
    It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

    aoe looting won't break the game
    dual spec won't break the game


    I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN
    Go play retail then

  20. #960
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    And thats why Blizzard did not want calssic and why it's still a bad idea, really.
    No matter what they do, someone is going to end up pissed.
    This right here. The real question is, how many people will play it when/if changes are/aren't made. I fully believe there will be some changes because Blizzard isn't going to devote the resources required to run servers for a very small number of players. I also fully believe that I could be wrong and NO CHANGES will be made. I guess we'll see what direction they head when they make the next announcement.
    You come from the greatest country in the world. Act like it.

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