Gul'dan or Ner'zhul

[Djordje]

At their peak of power who was stronger Gul'dan in legion before he was killed or lich King Ner'zhul at his peak ( but don't count Arthas as lich king just Ner'zhul) ?

[FelPlague]

Guldan. Nerzhul had bery little control on his own, he alone could do very little, he needed a host body to grant his power to.

so if we are comparing power of guldan
and nerzhul without arthas
guldan all the way

[Candy Cough]

I mean, Guldan did destroy an entire zone, raise a mountain, wipe out another zone and make a race extinct and summon achimonde all with a swing of his hand and without any preparations or artifacts. I think he stands a good chance, but then again Im very biased against the lich king so I wouldnt know

[DeicideUH]

Gul'dan was more powerful. Ner'zhul was way more cunning and awesome during Warcraft 2, thought. But then the WoW-era books retconned Ner'zhul into a desperate fool.

Edit: Oh, that's what I get from not reading properly. I thought orc Gul'dan vs. orc Ner'zhul.

Gul'dan vs Lich King Ner'zhul? Lich King wins, because he's the whole Scourge in essence. But on a one-on-one, Gul'dan wins, because Ner'zhul was just an ice block.

[faithbane]

Guldan. Nerzhul had bery little control on his own, he alone could do very little, he needed a host body to grant his power to.

so if we are comparing power of guldan
and nerzhul without arthas
guldan all the way

Wut? You do realize he created the scourge, attacked lordaeron, lead the cult of the damned, went behind the backs of his natherizm jailors (supposably the most cunning demon race ever) and was puppeteering Arthas while envisioning the outcome fo the legion invasion and prepared for the aftermath long before arthas got anywhere near the frozen throne

edit - against guldan I would probably pick guldan myself since he did some pretty OP stuff like somehow summoning archimonde with a instant cast spell and being the most op lock of all time and all.. but that doesn't mean we need to deface the power of nerzhul

[FelPlague]

Wut? You do realize he created the scourge, attacked lordaeron, lead the cult of the damned, went behind the backs of his natherizm jailors (supposably the most cunning demon race ever) and was puppeteering Arthas while envisioning the outcome fo the legion invasion and prepared for the aftermath long before arthas got anywhere near the frozen throne

edit - against guldan I would probably pick guldan myself since he did some pretty OP stuff like somehow summoning archimonde with a instant cast spell and being the most op lock of all time and all.. but that doesn't mean we need to deface the power of nerzhul

he did not create the scourge, he commanded it, with the help of the dreadlords, the legion created it
he did not attack lordaeron, the scourge did, he commanded the undead with the help of his dreadlords from northrend, he did not attack lordaeron
lolol just because he went behind the natherizm's back does not make him the most cunning thing ever, many people have tricked dreadlords.
just because he is smart, and knew the legion would wish to replace him, does not make him the most powerful thing ever.

Nerzhul was smart and knew how the legion worked, but he was not "insanely powerful"

[Aquamonkey]

he did not create the scourge, he commanded it, with the help of the dreadlords, the legion created it

No. LK Ner'zhul created the Scourge. It was literally the LK's energies that turned people undead.

"Ner'zhul cast a plague of undeath - which had originated from deep within the Frozen Throne, out into the arctic wasteland. Controlling the plague with his will alone, he drove it straight into the human village. Within three days, everyone in the settlement was dead, but shortly thereafter, the dead villagers began to rise as zombified corpses. Ner'zhul could feel their individual spirits and thoughts as if they were his own. The raging cacophony in his mind caused Ner'zhul to grow even more powerful, as if their spirits provided him with much-needed nourishment. He found it was child's play to control the zombies' actions and steer them to whatever end he wished.

Over the following months, Ner'zhul continued to experiment with his plague of undeath by subjugating every human inhabitant of Northrend. With his army of undead growing daily, he knew that the time for his true test was nearing."

Then it was later bottled in plague cauldrons for transport to Lordaeron.

"Placing his plague-energies into a number of portable artifacts called plague-cauldrons, Ner'zhul ordered Kel'Thuzad to transport the cauldrons to Lordaeron, where they would be hidden within various cult-controlled villages. The cauldrons, protected by the loyal cultists, would then act as plague-generators, sending the plague seeping out across the unsuspecting farmlands and cities of northern Lordaeron."

he commanded the undead with the help of his dreadlords from northrend, he did not attack lordaeron

The dreadlords didn't command the undead until Archimonde showed up in Dalaran. Before that, the dreadlords were there just to make sure Ner'zhul did what he was supposed to do.

[faithbane]

he did not create the scourge, he commanded it, with the help of the dreadlords, the legion created it
he did not attack lordaeron, the scourge did, he commanded the undead with the help of his dreadlords from northrend, he did not attack lordaeron
lolol just because he went behind the natherizm's back does not make him the most cunning thing ever, many people have tricked dreadlords.
just because he is smart, and knew the legion would wish to replace him, does not make him the most powerful thing ever.

Nerzhul was smart and knew how the legion worked, but he was not "insanely powerful"

Alright feel free to continue with your headcannon.. I mean there are direct quotes from dreadlords saying they are not here to help nerzhul or do the job for him, that they are only here to watch over him and make sure he doesn't step out of line but sure they helped him a ton. And outsmarting high ranking members of "THE cunning demon race" whose only job is to watch over you is a totally insignificant achievement.

[chrisisvacant]

Why does this question come up so often? Who gives a shit.

[Stefanus]

Gul'dan at his peak was, in my opinion, on the level of Archimonde/KJ. And by his peak, I don't mean Nighthold raid, but right before initial Broken Shore invasion where after he defeated Khadgar in the Tomb he amassed a lot of power from that place and he felt overwhelming power, he was then presented with the choice: 1) He either keeps the power makes an enemy of the Burning Legion betraying them (Kil'Jaeden telepathically talking to him) or 2) Use the newly gained power to open to portals to the Legion's worlds effectively starting the invasion and ushering in Legion expansion as we know it
We all know that he had chosen the latter, for the reasons that while contemplating on the potential choices he could make, he remembered that Gul'dan from our timeline Universe died exactly for the reasons of betraying the Burning Legion and the second reason was him witnessing the might of us (heroes of Azeroth) taking down one of the strongest, if not the strongest commanders Burning Legion had, alongside KJ.
Hence why I think that Gul'dan's peak was the level of Archi/KJ and that his peak wasn't Nighthold...

[RoKPaNda]

Guldan. Nerzhul had bery little control on his own, he alone could do very little, he needed a host body to grant his power to.

so if we are comparing power of guldan
and nerzhul without arthas
guldan all the way

Arthas doesn't factor in. Arthas was just a body for Ner'zhul. Then in a fit of super poor writing strength he destroyed Ner'zhul. Arthas gets credit for a lot of things he had nothing to do with. He rides Ner'zhul's coattails.

[Deleted]

Arthas/Ner'zhul Lich King > alternate Gul'Dan > Ner'zhul Lich King > Ner'zhul = Gul'dan

[Farrarie]

Gul'dan at his peak was, in my opinion, on the level of Archimonde/KJ..

LOL, KJ enslaved Ner'zul and his army with one spell. KJ small portion of power shown in Illidan novel when he entered the mind of illidan and his followers
Archimonde cleared the battle of demons elves and what ever there to give fear to the night elf commander in well of eternity
and you compare the powered up gul'dan in the voice drama to those 2 I don't agree with your opinion.
Archimonde is superior than Azshara in well of eternity novel and Destroyed dalaran with only SAND!
gameplay mechanic wich allowed the fight to be very underwhelming both for KJ and Archimonde
not to say archimonde would stomb gul'dan like a lil insect

[Stefanus]

LOL, KJ enslaved Ner'zul and his army with one spell.
Archimonde cleared the battle of demons elves and what ever there to give fear to the night elf commander in well of eternity
and you compare the powered up gul'dan in the voice drama to those 2 I don't agree with your opinion.
Archimonde is superior than Azshara in well of eternity novel and Destroyed dalaran with only SAND!

You might be right, but we can only guess what his power level was at that time, since no one really knows how much power did he really absorb, and you have to take into consideration that he did beat Khadgar and instant summon Archimonde without and before he had absorbed that kind of power from the Tomb.
My goal was to further my point of Gul'dan being in power much closer to Arch/KJ than Ner'zhul (with or without Arthas) and that his peak of power wasn't the Nighthold, but right before the invasion began after beating Khadgar and absorbing power of the Tomb...

[Farrarie]

You might be right, but we can only guess what his power level was at that time, since no one really knows how much power did he really absorb, and you have to take into consideration that he did beat Khadgar and instant summon Archimonde without and before he had absorbed that kind of power from the Tomb.
My goal was to further my point of Gul'dan being in power much closer to Arch/KJ than Ner'zhul (with or without Arthas) and that his peak of power wasn't the Nighthold, but right before the invasion began after beating Khadgar and absorbing power of the Tomb...

I agree that gul'dan is stronger than ner'zul but you cant compare a pawn "as velen said" to the true masters of the burning legion
and summoning archimonde was done from the fel powers of tannan jungle at that time not saying how much time it took before we players came we didn't see how gul'dan did the preparation before the summoning

[Aeula]

I’d say Ner’zhul with the Scepter of Sargeras but...

Well warlocks can’t beat Gul’dan with it alone. So I guess Gul’dan.

[Aucald]

I think Gul'dan probably had Ner'zhul beat even after Ner'zhul became the first Lich King. After fusing with Arthas to become the second Lich King I'm not so certain, but it probably would've been at least a more even match if nothing else.

[Zulenka]

Which Gul'Dan?

AU Gul'Dan or "Smited by Sargeras" Gul'Dan from the original timeline?

EDIT for Posterity:

I'd argue Ner'zhul. Scourge Necromancy is more like Void Magic on the "Magic Totem Pole" IMO.

[Deleted]

Gul'dan has always been more powerful than Ner'zhul, because Gul'dan unlike Ner'zhul had a lot of innate power.

Ner'zhul himself was nothing until KJ made him into something, Ner'zhul did not create the scourge, it was KJ's power that did.

[Dastreus]

Gul'dan is more powerful, but Ner'zhul was more interesting.