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  1. #221
    Legendary! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evogsr View Post
    That wasn't the case when it happened in Vanilla. It's not the same as ninja looting. It does have it's own stigma, but people certainly slid by doing it.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post48461007

    In the event you missed this, I don't feel like typing everything back out again.
    Maybe then not transmo, but what about mount/pet tabs, void storage, the reagent tab and the likes?

  2. #222
    After Blizzard dedicated a whole zone to an Indian Jones reference I dont really think they care a whole ton about the game. They will thumb their asshole take it out hold it up to the wind and decided what to do next by that. Which is why WoW is a constant pendulum between catering to the backbone community and to the casuals who come and go. The vanilla community was able to creat hurricane sized winds and Blizzard felt them, now we get our severs. Once they release if the winds blowing another direction they will add Blood Elves, transmog, and whatever shithead change they want to make without a moments hesitation. The only successful approach would be for this to be a project about preservation.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Groh View Post
    Maybe some people are more open minded than others.
    And maybe some people just know what they want and what they don't.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    Maybe then not transmo, but what about mount/pet tabs, void storage, the reagent tab and the likes?
    Those aren't outside of the realm of reason. I'd say void storage just wouldn't be necessary though. Nothing to really say about pet/mount tabs, but very few players collected pets in Vanilla or mounts for that matter. Pets just weren't very common to begin with. Mounts on the other hand, had no variety either truly since they were locked to the race you rolled as (with certain exceptions like the 2 ZG/AQ mounts; only rideable in AQ), which is a feature I believe should remain.

    As for bank/reagent space though:

    It still took a lot to completely fill up ones bank space. If you're raiding, you do shed pieces of gear over time that you no longer need. For example, by the time you're speed clearing BWL and/or progressing in AQ40, you wouldn't have any need for your FR set, even if you're still running MC for members alts/gear up randoms. Materials and such for the average player didn't take up a ton of space unless they were one of the primary crafters for the guilds consumables.

    That said, I frankly wouldn't care if the reagent tab made its way into the game.
    Last edited by evogsr; 2017-12-28 at 04:43 PM.

  5. #225
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bottled View Post
    For fuck sake, people are not just asking for "click able raid frames and multi item mail ability", the are asking for LFR, transmog, dual spec, etc.
    I know this. Doesn't mean everything or nothing. You can make a difference between what is reasonable and what is over the top, don't you? Once again you assume that if one small thing is changed, everything else will change and we'll end up with legion. That's exagerated.

    If you have 1M players and you see an addon with 700/800k dl, for something that became a stock feature later in the game, (smarter raid frames etc)you can think the stock feature would be welcome. If you see 95% of "NO" for lfr, you know it's a Red Flag.
    And I can't see anybody ragequit over a toggle for updated graphics. A few extremist will bitch for a minute, eventually realize how stupid they are, toggle off and play the game like nothing happened.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikan View Post
    And maybe some people just know what they want and what they don't.
    Yeah and when you know what you want and what you don't, you can't be open minded. Amirite?

    I know what I want, I know what I don't. I also know that a lot of stuff I'm not asking for are not gonna kill the game for me if implemented. I'll play classic anyway.
    Unfortunatly their is extremists here, with "its how I want or I ragequit/shit my pants" mentality, calling other people kiddies. Hard to discuss.
    Last edited by mmoc051d140155; 2017-12-28 at 05:14 PM.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Groh View Post
    Unfortunatly their is extremists here, with "its how I want or I ragequit/shit my pants" mentality, calling other people kiddies. Hard to discuss.
    Yes they are basically ultimatums, and neither the community nor Blizzard should listen to or encourage such behavior. Let's have mature discussion about how Classic should be, if you don't want to have a mature discussion be prepared to get nothing you want.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Groh View Post
    I know what I want, I know what I don't. I also know that a lot of stuff I'm not asking for are not gonna kill the game for me if implemented. I'll play classic anyway.

    Unfortunatly their is extremists here, with "its how I want or I ragequit/shit my pants" mentality, calling other people kiddies. Hard to discuss.
    Mirror mirror.

    This right here puts the spotlight on why you have been unable to discuss anything with anyone except the one or two people who you mutually agree with.

    A whole lot of other people, who were in large part, the reason why this whole thing called Classic is even taking place, are all people who also know what they want, and what they don't want. For them, it does kill the game if implemented because ______________________.

    I'll let you fill in the blank. But just in case you need the answer key.

    Correct answer: It's not what they wanted

    You've tried to act like you've been marginalized in some way, but that's exactly what you do in every one of your posts. It's more hilarious when you can't even, by name, or otherwise find any of these "extremists". You bring them up in every post, but where are they? It appears to be anyone who disagrees with you.

  8. #228
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by evogsr View Post
    Mirror mirror.

    This right here puts the spotlight on why you have been unable to discuss anything with anyone except the one or two people who you mutually agree with.

    A whole lot of other people, who were in large part, the reason why this whole thing called Classic is even taking place, are all people who also know what they want, and what they don't want. For them, it does kill the game if implemented because ______________________.

    I'll let you fill in the blank. But just in case you need the answer key.

    Correct answer: It's not what they wanted

    You've tried to act like you've been marginalized in some way, but that's exactly what you do in every one of your posts. It's more hilarious when you can't even, by name, or otherwise find any of these "extremists". You bring them up in every post, but where are they? It appears to be anyone who disagrees with you.
    Wtf are you talking about?

    I told you in other thread that I'm going to play classic with changes or not.
    You are part of the group of extremist that shit his pants over any change to the game but yet, for a few days now, you are trying to make me look like the one forcing my views on everybody. What kind of shit are you eating dude?

    You angry because I spoted you on your bullshit with that one poll in the other thread?
    "50% asking for periodical class balance=everybody agree on no change" lmfao..... GTFO

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Groh View Post
    Wtf are you talking about?

    I told you in other thread that I'm going to play classic with changes or not.
    You are part of the group of extremist that shit his pants over any change to the game but yet, for a few days now, you are trying to make me look like the one forcing my views on everybody. What kind of shit are you eating dude?

    You angry because I spoted you on your bullshit with that one poll in the other thread?
    "50% asking for periodical class balance=everybody agree on no change" lmfao..... GTFO
    I'm part of the extremist group? Yet I'm on the record saying I'm completely fine with toggle graphics. I'm completely fine with a guild bank. I'm completely fine with reagent storage. I'm completely fine with content being added after a suitable duration beyond Naxx's release, etc. Of course I'm also fine if these changes don't make it to the game.

    You can't even accurately define who or what an extremist is.

    But wait, I'm angry at you for reiterating something that I pointed out?

    You need some serious psychiatric help or you need to hone your skills in English, because whatever they're teaching you there in France isn't cutting the mustard. Maybe both.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Groh View Post
    Wtf are you talking about?

    I told you in other thread that I'm going to play classic with changes or not.
    You are part of the group of extremist that shit his pants over any change to the game but yet, for a few days now, you are trying to make me look like the one forcing my views on everybody. What kind of shit are you eating dude?

    You angry because I spoted you on your bullshit with that one poll in the other thread?
    "50% asking for periodical class balance=everybody agree on no change" lmfao..... GTFO
    Except you're also being extremist and not tolerating any discussion, just in a different way. I don't want Classic to feature anything that wasn't somewhere in the 1.X patch cycle, or it won't be Classic. That's my opinion and what I want. And yes, I'm of the opinion that if you put things outside of Classic into Classic, then by definition its not Classic, its some hybrid 'Classic +' as I've seen people say or whatever and it shouldn't be called 'Classic'.
    Except you won't accept that opinion just as an opinion or preference. You have to phrase it as 'You are part of the group of extremist that shit his pants over any change to the game' and its equally difficult to have a discussion from the other side when that is how you are behaving.

    Like your vague put-down, which shouldn't be but you purposely phrased it so it was, about wanting the game to be X being close-minded. 'I want this' is a preference, there is no reason to toss 'close-minded' on top unless you are intentionally trying to condescend to make people defensive or instigate. One could turn that around and say trying to force other changes into Classic is being close-minded against the people who want a 'pure' Classic. You're refusing to consider their point of view without framing it as an insult just as much as they're refusing to consider adding additional features.

    All of this is besides the point that this discussion is moot anyway. Blizzard has stated that the game will be as true to Classic as they can make it and not feature additional features, the discussion from their perspective is revolving around where in the patch cycle to have Classic, or what patch features to implement vs not. So either way, there's really no discussion to be had here about a 'slippery slope' one way or the other.

  11. #231
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by evogsr View Post
    I'm part of the extremist group? Yet I'm on the record saying I'm completely fine with toggle graphics. I'm completely fine with a guild bank. I'm completely fine with reagent storage. I'm completely fine with content being added after a suitable duration beyond Naxx's release, etc. Of course I'm also fine if these changes don't make it to the game.

    You can't even accurately define who or what an extremist is.

    But wait, I'm angry at you for reiterating something that I pointed out?

    You need some serious psychiatric help or you need to hone your skills in English, because whatever they're teaching you there in France isn't cutting the mustard. Maybe both.
    Like I told you, I'm going to play classic, with changes or not. Now when I see BS arguments against specific features, I point it out!
    Obviously you dont like it and feel the need to come at me with more BS arguments, on your high horses like your shiny words are indiscutable facts, telling me I'm the one who forces his views on everybody.

    Yeah, when you try to use a poll to say "see? everybody agree on no change at all" when the poll results shows that 50% wants periodical class balance, guild banks and more class viable for tanking 40man raid, I call BS on your logic! Who needs psychiatric help here?

    I agree my english is shit, didn't learn anything in french schools, I learned here basically, so thx guys!
    However, it seems you understand me well enough, and despite your superior english skills, there is not enough grammar and vocabulary to hide your BS! But feel free to correct my faulty sentences, I'll make good use of the correction, smartass.

  12. #232
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceofH View Post
    They have. They said vanilla is vanilla and that the discussion is for what changes occurred during vanilla.
    15 man or 10 man ubrs. Linked or unlink flight paths. What patch to start at? Etc
    They knowingly have left enough wiggle room and explicitly requested feedback about what should and shouldn't be included. So while they have, they haven't really defined any clear boundaries. They can declare the subject is closed and thank everyone for their feedback any time they wish. They've done little-to-nothing to say things like "No, if X first appeared in Burning Crusade it won't be part of the project". That's an easy enough thing to say.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  13. #233
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groh View Post
    Because you assume that, if ever they implement click able raid frames and multi item mail ability, it's for sure we'll end up with flying and LFR because blizzard will cave in for absolutly everything.

    There is a world to draw a line between click able raid frames and LFR. I am sure blizzard is capable of nuance between "some of the rough edges" and "all the rough edges".

    - - - Updated - - -



    Be ready for disapointment dude. I'll play, change or not. So I don't care... Maybe some people are more open minded than others.
    I am normally openminded, but when you waited for proper Vanilla servers since TBC release in 2006, you have quite some expectations. I just see no point in vanilla servers if they are not really original.
    • Diablo Immortal is the most misunderstood and underrated game of all time!
    • Blizzard, please, give us some end-game focused Classic servers, where you start at max level!
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  14. #234
    Deleted
    It should be treated like a slippery slope, because it is. Once you make certain changes or add certain features, where do you draw the line?

    While I can certainly understrand a lot of arguements made for, for example, dual spec, I think we should just let classic be as authentic as possible. If we add dual spec, then why not add LFD, transmog, make balance changes, etc? I'm not saying everyone is making the same demands, but these are just a hand full of examples I've seen in the past months.

    People asking for changes like I mentioned above should ask themselves if they really are the target audience for classic servers. Now it's something seemingly inocent like dual spec (which I wouldn't even be opposed to). After that there is no telling what might also be added or changed once they start making changes just because a part of the player base wants it. I've accepted that the one or two features and changes I would like just aren't part of the vanilla wow experience. I'd rather see no changes than potentially playing on classic servers with so much added to them for the sake of "quality of life" that we're basically playing retail in a classic setting.
    Last edited by mmoc9bca5565b2; 2017-12-29 at 09:30 AM.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziktus View Post
    It should be treated like a slippery slope, because it is. Once you make certain changes or add certain features, where do you draw the line?

    While I can certainly understrand a lot of arguements made for, for example, dual spec, I think we should just let classic be as authentic as possible. If we add dual spec, then why not add LFD, transmog, make balance changes, etc? I'm not saying everyone is making the same demands, but these are just a hand full of examples I've seen in the past months.

    People asking for changes like I mentioned above should ask themselves if they really are the target audience for classic servers. Now it's something seemingly inocent like dual spec (which I wouldn't even be opposed to). After that there is no telling what might also be added or changed once they start making changes just because a part of the player base wants it. I've accepted that the one or two features and changes I would like just aren't part of the vanilla wow experience. I'd rather see no changes than potentially playing on classic servers with so much added to them for the sake of "quality of life" that we're basically playing retail in a classic setting.
    This is like THE BEST argument i have seen. I will add that you guys already gonna have bunch of addons so you wont be suffering as much as you think! Especially since even more add ons will be created! Unfortunately carrying your mounts as items in your backpack and similar stuff is actual Vanila thing and in my opinion not something that should be changed. Similar stuff should remain untouched for the sake of the experience itself. Like Zitkus said 'People asking for changes like I mentioned above should ask themselves if they really are the target audience for classic servers' and if you figure out your actually not, no harm done, just go back to regular WoW and you will be happy!

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    All over this subforum, the most common response to any, ANY request for ANY change, no matter how small, is this idiotic slippery slope argument of:



    Please educate yourself: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

    Is it impossible to make just one or two changes? If you change one thing, then EVERYTHING else *MUST* change, 100% guaranteed? The problem with retail was not changes themselves, rather, that Blizz changed too much and didn't know where to draw the line. Most, if not all vanilla players liked TBC, even though it had a shitload of changes from vanilla. So why is it such a massive sin to make any little change to vanilla?

    No, adding in minor QoL features like AoE looting will not lead to "LFR, flying, heirlooms, instant 60" or any of that bullshit, and such minor QoL features will not affect the "feel" of the game or whatever other emotion-based argument you want to use. I dislike retail as much as the next vanilla fan, but there are plenty of GOOD changes that retail has made, that would be very useful in vanilla.

    Furthermore, addons in vanilla already add a fuckton of QoL, yet you don't see anyone advocating that those are "not vanilla" or that they should be removed. Vanilla was full of addons, specifically because players weren't satisfied with the game's base offerings, and wanted to add things to improve it. Things like LazyPig automating tons of things, or EzDismount, which auto-dismounts you when you try to cast a spell, movable cast bars, better unit frames, chat modifications, easy dispel addons...players have been making their own QoL changes to the game ever since it released.

    --------------

    Point is, please come up with actual arguments for why a change is bad, instead of just plugging your ears and screaming "NOT VANILLA!" or "SLIPPERY SLOPE!".
    Do you realize you just vouched for the slippery slope argument?

  17. #237
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    It could be cast aside as "slippery slope" if there were no factual grounds about it. However, these grounds are big enough for everyone to see, and they're called retail.

  18. #238
    If we don't stop the slippery slope arguments, next thing you know it'll be a giant murder gangbang.
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