Mythic raiding guild that uses dkp? Anyone?

[Nahela]

ITT: People that think just showing up is grounds for them getting as much loot as everyone else in a mythic raiding scenario, when they're likely not getting as much loot because they frequently make mistakes, cause wipes, or otherwise just perform poorly.

[Byleth]

What makes me think i didnt get my fair share? i didnt expect any share as i was on trial

...and I stopped read right there.

I was actually sort of with you until that point.

Trails should always have the expectation of getting no gear whatsoever until they pass trial. I mean our guild will still give them the occasional piece, but the expectation should be nothing.

At that point the only thing you should be focused on is performing the best you can to pass trial, and also trying to get to know your team members. The last thing on your mind should be loot.

As a trail your fair share, is NOTHING.

TBH, if you were complaining about loot distribution as a trial in my guild, you would fail said trial.

[Deleted]

...and I stopped read right there.

I was actually sort of with you until that point.

Trails should always have the expectation of getting no gear whatsoever until they pass trial. I mean our guild will still give them the occasional piece, but the expectation should be nothing.

At that point the only thing you should be focused on is performing the best you can to pass trial, and also trying to get to know your team members. The last thing on your mind should be loot.

As a trail your fair share, is NOTHING.

TBH, if you were complaining about loot distribution as a trial in my guild, you would fail said trial.

Yes. isnt that what i wrote? "i didnt expect gear because i was a trial" so you disagree with the points about council members gearing there alts in alt raids over mains that attend the main raid? you agree with that do you?

You disagree that its ok for a loot council member to say "yeah i have no idea why i was given that" while he was on his alt... in mythic.... which he rarely plays, thats ok is it? and no i wasnt going for the item, it was gloves, he is a paladin i am a druid.

I should of just been a robot and not paid attention to how the guild was being run? yes, thats exactly what ninja guilds want, ppl are just pissed i have highlighted what some of you are doing.

Be vary wary of guilds with high turnover and small core guys. gang ninjas disregarding everyone else.

[Segus1992]

If i had a million dollars, i would of bet it all on you saying that.

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No, i ask for a share, didnt your parents teach you to share? why is it fair to penalise me because i done some grafting to earn a superior gearset and reward the people who just log for raid? sorry princess but loot council is meant to consider dedication also, not just gear your mates or the slacker, kick the slacker, get someone who doesnt slack, if your gonna say ppl have work commitments etc, your clearly in a casual guild, why are you using council again?

@ the bolded part, are you American? I've never seen non-Americans write "could of"/"would of" etc, as I imagine only people who write phonetically would get it wrong. But you write pretty awful English overall..

Anyway, why should you get more because you're nolifing the game from the raids that everyone's attending when you can't even become friends with the people in charge of the loot?

As for why you shouldn't - because it helps the guild less than decking the nolifer out in slightly better gear.

[Deleted]

ITT: People that think just showing up is grounds for them getting as much loot as everyone else in a mythic raiding scenario, when they're likely not getting as much loot because they frequently make mistakes, cause wipes, or otherwise just perform poorly.

by your opinion, are they alive when the boss dies? have they contributed? thats all that should matter.

If they are wiping the raid you should be replacing them no?

They are still there contributing there time helping you kill bosses, why shouldnt they be entitled to a fair chance because they made a mistake in an earlier try?

Take heroic for example, by not pugging and attending guild raid, they ARE passing there CHANCE to win something, to hand to the officers who in turn gear there favourites, why not pug? and guilds wonder why they have such a high turnover, "so many disloyal players" no mate, your dishonest and corrupt, so they leave.

[Byleth]

I don't know the other side of the story, or the other people concerned. Without the whole story, there's no point in debating this further.

Here's what I can tell you:
- If the officers in our guild know a trial is going to fail, they stop getting loot.
- It is always a good idea to pay attention to how a guild is run, I myself have left guild due to leadership heading in a direction I disagreed with.
- I have never heard of ninja guilds, but they sound awesome, do they provide shurikens to all members?

In general you are a 964 geared resto druid. That's well ahead of the curve and TBH, you probably don't need to much compared to other guild members. (I don't know, you haven't linked armory or anything).

What I an tell you is that coming onto a popular wow forum and whining about loot is a great way to get black listed from any guild worth a damn. These matters are best discussed with friends in a discrete environment.

[c313]

DKP was only used during the days of MASSIVE raid numbers. Everquest's 70+ Player raids (Where DKP originated from) And Vanilla WoW's 40 man raids during Vanilla and when it started falling off into BC/WoTLK and ultimately basically dying in Cata onward.

Once raids stopped being a housing spot for mass numbers, people started realizing theres not much of a need for it. Gear floods in WoW raids. Unless your Loot council is corrupted, you'll get your share. Back in EQ days where you would only get 2 pieces of loot + a quest item or 2 from a kill with 70+ fucking people, DKP was needed. The system turned over to WoW once it came out and was arguably still needed as WoW adopted the massive player raids too. But these days with loot flooding in and no more than 20 people (Unless ur doing Normal/Heroic) not much of a reason to keep DKP around.

Eitherway corruption exists, but you have the choice to leave and find another Guild.

[Deleted]

@ the bolded part, are you American? I've never seen non-Americans write "could of"/"would of" etc, as I imagine only people who write phonetically would get it wrong. But you write pretty awful English overall..

Anyway, why should you get more because you're nolifing the game from the raids that everyone's attending when you can't even become friends with the people in charge of the loot?

As for why you shouldn't - because it helps the guild less than decking the nolifer out in slightly better gear.

I dont ask for more, i ask for a chance. you dont get my point at all.

When a loot council is corrupt, there is zero chance, why dont i or anyone else that isnt in the clique deserve a CHANCE?

[Elbob]

I don't know the other side of the story, or the other people concerned. Without the whole story, there's no point in debating this further.

Here's what I can tell you:
- If the officers in our guild know a trial is going to fail, they stop getting loot.
- It is always a good idea to pay attention to how a guild is run, I myself have left guild due to leadership heading in a direction I disagreed with.
- I have never heard of ninja guilds, but they sound awesome, do they provide shurikens to all members?

In general you are a 964 geared resto druid. That's well ahead of the curve and TBH, you probably don't need to much compared to other guild members. (I don't know, you haven't linked armory or anything).

What I an tell you is that coming onto a popular wow forum and whining about loot is a great way to get black listed from any guild worth a damn. These matters are best discussed with friends in a discrete environment.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...zak/tree%C3%A9
grabbed from a log he linked earlier.

[Deleted]

DKP was only used during the days of MASSIVE raid numbers. Everquest's 70+ Player raids (Where DKP originated from) And Vanilla WoW's 40 man raids during Vanilla and when it started falling off into BC/WoTLK and ultimately basically dying in Cata onward.

Once raids stopped being a housing spot for mass numbers, people started realizing there's not much of a need for it. Gear floods in WoW raids. Unless your Loot council is corrupted, you'll get your share. Back in EQ days where you would only get 2 pieces of loot + a quest item or 2 from a kill with 70+ fucking people, DKP was needed. The system turned over to WoW once it came out and was arguably still needed as WoW adopted the massive player raids too. But these days with loot flooding in and no more than 20 people (Unless ur doing Normal/Heroic) not much of a reason to keep DKP around.

Exactly what the post is about "if your council is corrupt" the councils in my last 4 guilds have been blatantly corrupt. but people here are trying to tell me that no council is corrupt just because there council may not be, or they are trying to cover there golden goose because they cant be arsed to farm so rely on there officer mates to gear them when they log for raid.

[psyquest]

We do loot council in my guild and I am part of the loot council.

Recently I had a guy disconnect and leave because of a normal drop. It was stupid of him, since the loot council would rather this guy get priority loot on heroic and mythic and leave the normal loot for trials etc. The following raid he received 3 pieces of mythic loot, thus showing how silly he was.

loot council works, because at times you want to reward someone or you want to gear specific classes firsts. Getting to a boss where tanks need to have better gear or a boss where casters need to have that trinket to dispatch adds faster?

At the end of the day, killing boss = more gear and a in a good loot council you will see that the raid is within a few ilvl from each other.

note. we had dkp long ago. it was bad because it rewards presence, not gameplay and does not concentrate on who should get the item for the benefit of the raid.

[Deleted]

From your tone I can tell your sole concern out of raiding is getting loot. Then progression raiding is really not for you. Tons of guilds use the Loot Council system just fine.

If you think there is a clique going down with your guild why not talk to them and set the matter straight instead of coming here and cry about the loot system?

never call out a clique in a guild its a complete waste of time and will only cause you aggro. its best to just up sticks and move guilds mabie take the odd freind you make with you.

ive had 2 experiences with cliques this expansion one in my own guild that was progressing nightmare mythic we had a group of 5-6 players only ran M+ together never let any other guild member in because they "dident trust them with there keys" unfortunately the clique contained both our tanks and most active healer meaning the rest of the guild had to fill spots with pugs for the key runs, this led to less runs total and a growing gear gap between the clique and the rest of the raid team eventually progress stalled and the clique blamed the rest of the guild for not being geared enough some one then (rightly in my mind) called them out for there monopoly in high keys a big argument ensued between the clique and some others about its my key ill do what i want and your hogging the guilds tanks / healers for your select groups and every one else is having to pug blah blah in the end i Quit as GM because id had enough.

2nd clique i have encountered was as the Op describes the guild basicly had a select 4-5 players and the remainder were just high turnover all gear went to the 4-5 with bits they dident needs being passed out and i you dident like it you left and they just replaced wasnt a fun guild to raid with :/

[Deleted]

I don't know the other side of the story, or the other people concerned. Without the whole story, there's no point in debating this further.

Here's what I can tell you:
- If the officers in our guild know a trial is going to fail, they stop getting loot.
- It is always a good idea to pay attention to how a guild is run, I myself have left guild due to leadership heading in a direction I disagreed with.
- I have never heard of ninja guilds, but they sound awesome, do they provide shurikens to all members?

In general you are a 964 geared resto druid. That's well ahead of the curve and TBH, you probably don't need to much compared to other guild members. (I don't know, you haven't linked armory or anything).

What I an tell you is that coming onto a popular wow forum and whining about loot is a great way to get black listed from any guild worth a damn. These matters are best discussed with friends in a discrete environment.

The post wasnt to whine, the post was to look for an epgp fair distribution guild (which i have found)

The members of this popular wow forum are the ones that instigated and attacked my thread for various reasons and presumptions.

I have made valid points about mid range ninja councils and have been told that they dont exist by people that have obviously never experienced them.

I am done with this thread, off to set up in my new equal loot distribution fair guild, oh i cant wait to progress in a mature chilled enviroment. whats world rank?

[Deleted]

Exactly what the post is about "if your council is corrupt" the councils in my last 4 guilds have been blatantly corrupt. but people here are trying to tell me that no council is corrupt just because there council may not be, or they are trying to cover there golden goose because they cant be arsed to farm so rely on there officer mates to gear them when they log for raid.

uve had 4 guilds in 6 months ? u sure u just wernt on trial cos loot generaly dosent go to trials if a full member wants it

[Deleted]

never call out a clique in a guild its a complete waste of time and will only cause you aggro. its best to just up sticks and move guilds mabie take the odd freind you make with you.

ive had 2 experiences with cliques this expansion one in my own guild that was progressing nightmare mythic we had a group of 5-6 players only ran M+ together never let any other guild member in because they "dident trust them with there keys" unfortunately the clique contained both our tanks and most active healer meaning the rest of the guild had to fill spots with pugs for the key runs, this led to less runs total and a growing gear gap between the clique and the rest of the raid team eventually progress stalled and the clique blamed the rest of the guild for not being geared enough some one then (rightly in my mind) called them out for there monopoly in high keys a big argument ensued between the clique and some others about its my key ill do what i want and your hogging the guilds tanks / healers for your select groups and every one else is having to pug blah blah in the end i Quit as GM because id had enough.

2nd clique i have encountered was as the Op describes the guild basicly had a select 4-5 players and the remainder were just high turnover all gear went to the 4-5 with bits they dident needs being passed out and i you dident like it you left and they just replaced wasnt a fun guild to raid with :/

Just wow, you have just explained word for word the experience i had in the beginning of the expansion regards the m+, the gap grew so large so fast it was impossible to catch up, there answer was i need to farm more... i wanted to go with them but there was never a spot.

People are going to ignore what you have written tho, and go straight to throwing flame at me as what you have written is not what they want to see.

[Deleted]

Just wow, you have just explained word for word the experience i had in the beginning of the expansion regards the m+, the gap grew so large so fast it was impossible to catch up, there answer was i need to farm more... i wanted to go with them but there was never a spot.

People are going to ignore what you have written tho, and go straight to throwing flame at me as what you have written is not what they want to see.

it was a fairly common issue having talked to a bunch of people over the expansion its seems a large bunch of guilds suffered from a mythic + clique forming at the start. seems to have died off now possibly due to the changes blizz made to M+ over the course of legion. mine was particularly deep rooted in the guild though with evean the officers divided hence i deemed the whole thing rotten as which ever side won out the result would be a toxic mess so i dissolved it. the M+ clique went of to make the own guild of "hardcore" players that demanded people do there M+ they lasted about half of nightwell before only having 15-17 players each raid for mythic killed em off. C'Est la Vie

[Byleth]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...zak/tree%C3%A9
grabbed from a log he linked earlier.

Mythic plus gear story checks out, good for him.

I see he still has pantheon trinket though, so not too bad. Definitely need some tier, I can see why you would be upset at not getting that.

[Demeia]

Thanks guys, this thread really makes me happy I never decided to step on the mythic bandwagon--both systems sound horrible! No, no, I'm just joking around. Well, sort of. I'm fairly happy I'm not living Totalsyn's raid life and having to search out guilds; I raid with the same people-ish I did in vanilla. On the other hand, he'd probably hate how awful my guild is--and we are really, really bad.

The discussion is interesting even if I'm pretty confused by the OP's problem. I actually did raid in vanilla under the worst dkp system in the world, and it took a change in the rules for me to get my first piece of loot months and months into progress. I don't have good memories of it.

To those of us in the normal/heroic world, we use personal loot and just try to give things that wouldn't be a big upgrade away. The "Don't be a dick" rule.

[Deleted]

Mythic plus gear story checks out, good for him.

I see he still has pantheon trinket though, so not too bad. Definitely need some tier, I can see why you would be upset at not getting that.

in desperate need of a mog

[Dahij]

Any guild wanting decent progress will gear the raid according to the raids needs instead of fair distribution (making sure everyone gets loot evenly). Guilds who don't care about that might as well use personal loot and let the RNG gods decide who gets what. If you are in a semi-serious guild then eventually everyone will be decked out in full current tier gear eventually so why care if you don't get the loot you want week 1 when you will be guaranteed to have EVERYTHING by week 10 or so?