Sacrificing iLvl for 4set + 2set

[Azortharion]

This is why asking for opinions is spooky, you get lots of blatantly wrong information like the post above me and many others in this thread. When you have Mythic T21 and Mythic T20, assuming no Titanforge shenanigans on either side, T21 4p is ahead for single-target. ;p

edit: this was a reply to a now deleted post

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To help you out with some guidance.

I've run T21 4 set sims against T20 4 set and my highest sim is still T20 4 set. My ilvl gear for my T20 pieces are between 915-925 only.

Ideally I have found T21 2 set and T20 4 set to be the stronger combination for BM Dire Beast build.

If I was to use my T21 4 set and my offpieces in my bag I would boost myself to +5 ilvl to 950 equipped. My ilvl T20 4set is only 945 equipped and still out sims and DPS T21 / 950 ilvl.

Long story short - use T20 4 set until blizzard wakes up and nerfs it or fixed the T21 4 set.

Another example of blatantly wrong information (implying that T21 4p is never worth using for single-target). Nevermind the fact that he's talking about BM while OP was asking about MM, but it's incorrect for BM also, it just takes a bit more + the right Legendaries for BM to use T21 4p.

[velkroe]

This is why asking for opinions is spooky, you get lots of blatantly wrong information like the post above me and many others in this thread. When you have Mythic T21 and Mythic T20, assuming no Titanforge shenanigans on either side, T21 4p is ahead for single-target. ;p

Azortharion I am assuming you are talking about my post being bad information (mm set) and I would definitely like to hear why. I have simmed myself with my two different gear sets.

First I was wearing 4p t-20 / 2p t-21
Tier 20 helm 900
Tier 21 shoulder 945
Tier 20 cape 915
Tier 20 chest 915
Tier 20 gloves 920
Tier 21 pants 930

Sim dps 1,529,966

Second sim 2-piece tier 20, 4 piece-21
Tier 20 helm 900
Tier 21 shoulders 945
Tier 21 cape 915
Tier 21 chest 945
Tier 20 gloves 920
Tier 21 pants 930

1,529,273

They basically both simmed the same but the second set, the 4 set t-21 had the higher the higher ilevel. Unless I am doing something wrong in my simming, I don't see the advantage of getting the 4-piece until their stats are so much of an improvement that they outweigh the lower tier set bonus.

MM Hunter profile

[Azortharion]

No, whoever I was talking about deleted their post after I made mine, it looks like. I trust that your sims are correct and your results are roughly as one would expect. All I am saying is that there is a very reasonable point where T21 4p becomes better, it's not something that will never happen like the now deleted post implied (or the one I quoted).

[velkroe]

Thank you for the clarification. I was worried that maybe I was doing something wrong.

[Brostro]

I appreciate some of the input, thank you.

I am going to work on learning to sim now, heh

[coldfront]

This is why asking for opinions is spooky, you get lots of blatantly wrong information like the post above me and many others in this thread. When you have Mythic T21 and Mythic T20, assuming no Titanforge shenanigans on either side, T21 4p is ahead for single-target. ;p

edit: this was a reply to a now deleted post

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Another example of blatantly wrong information (implying that T21 4p is never worth using for single-target). Nevermind the fact that he's talking about BM while OP was asking about MM, but it's incorrect for BM also, it just takes a bit more + the right Legendaries for BM to use T21 4p.

You can call this blatantly wrong information by all means.. OR perhaps I was using my sims and raidbots sims and self findings and other Hunter's I discussed this with to help assist with the original OP. It's not as if your guides are that helpful when it comes to these important questions we have for Hunters.

Maybe relax on the boring generic guides and focus on these questions we have for the future, which would save the original OP and others the time and effort assisting.

SIR.

[Azortharion]

Just because it is correct for you does not mean it is good information. And just because your information is derived from sims of your own, does not make it more correct than "boring generic guides". In fact, it makes it less correct, you're not looking at the bigger picture, e.g what most people actually have simming higher for them and what most people are using. Awesome necro btw, you really showed me up there.

[coldfront]

Just because it is correct for you does not mean it is good information. And just because your information is derived from sims of your own, does not make it more correct than "boring generic guides". In fact, it makes it less correct, you're not looking at the bigger picture, e.g what most people actually have simming higher for them and what most people are using. Awesome necro btw, you really showed me up there.

You contradicted yourself in your reply more times than anyone I have ever seen.

Expected a more intelligent reply.

[Azortharion]

I assume you think there's a self-contradiction in my criticism of your sims being based on your own only. "But my sim is no more arbitrary than the guides/your sims". While that is true, you are basing your statement off of one sim (and perhaps a few others that you have heard of). It's a dated topic by now anyway, because T21 4p is widely used and is part of the BiS pre-TF gearset by a fairly long shot, so I don't think anyone with half a brain thinks that T21 4p being worth equipping is particularly rare, anymore. "Use T20 4 set until Blizzard wakes up and nerfs it or fixed the T21 4 set" is just wrong information to give to somebody with the modest proof you had (your own sim). Even if it was correct (I mean, you had a 50/50 chance of getting it right even if you were just guessing), it would be on the baseless idea that your sim has relevance for him.

Even if it's not the reply that OP asked for, the only half-decent reply is to sim it. And if they are close or T20 4p is only slightly ahead, then you'd go T21 anyway for the max health bonus. Sometimes people don't know what reply is actually the best one, and sometimes the only correct answer is the one they don't want to hear. That's on them, but one would be doing them a disservice by offering a baseless opinion/anecdote just because that's what they wanted to hear, at least if we assume the end goal is to help OP become the best player he can.

The guide does tell people to sim these things as well, so it does help in these situations, because that is the only correct answer.

I'm sorry if me hanging your reply out offended you or something. I am not sure if you've caught onto it yet, but the guy was talking about MM anyway, so your BM reply was useless regardless, which means we're arguing about exactly nothing but the "theory" of helping people with these decisions.

[coldfront]

I assume you think there's a self-contradiction in my criticism of your sims being based on your own only. "But my sim is no more arbitrary than the guides/your sims". While that is true, you are basing your statement off of one sim (and perhaps a few others that you have heard of). It's a dated topic by now anyway, because T21 4p is widely used and is part of the BiS pre-TF gearset by a fairly long shot, so I don't think anyone with half a brain thinks that T21 4p being worth equipping is particularly rare, anymore. "Use T20 4 set until Blizzard wakes up and nerfs it or fixed the T21 4 set" is just wrong information to give to somebody with the modest proof you had (your own sim). Even if it was correct (I mean, you had a 50/50 chance of getting it right even if you were just guessing), it would be on the baseless idea that your sim has relevance for him.

Even if it's not the reply that OP asked for, the only half-decent reply is to sim it. And if they are close or T20 4p is only slightly ahead, then you'd go T21 anyway for the max health bonus. Sometimes people don't know what reply is actually the best one, and sometimes the only correct answer is the one they don't want to hear. That's on them, but one would be doing them a disservice by offering a baseless opinion/anecdote just because that's what they wanted to hear, at least if we assume the end goal is to help OP become the best player he can.

The guide does tell people to sim these things as well, so it does help in these situations, because that is the only correct answer.

I'm sorry if me hanging your reply out offended you or something. I am not sure if you've caught onto it yet, but the guy was talking about MM anyway, so your BM reply was useless regardless, which means we're arguing about exactly nothing but the "theory" of helping people with these decisions.

Well I appreciate that comment and I felt like I was giving some guidance and help to the original OP based off my findings from Sim's. I personally felt that when I tried every viable combination from 4P T20 and 2P T21 it was also T20 coming ahead no matter how many times.

Sorry sir.

[Rohip]

Slightly off tangent question. Does the 4-set bonus (for MM) on t-21 do anything for single target. It just seems so bad that I feel I must be thinking about it wrong.

It gives you a 50% chance for Marked Shot to hit twice when you use Marked Shot to refresh the Vulnerable window, so if you're on a single target fight, look at your Marked Shot damage; in principle the t21 4pc will raise that damage 50%.