Spec balance for raids was pretty good for Legion!

[Nitros14]

Other funny thing about warcraftlogs aggregate rankings.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17#dataset=90 You'd think arcane is in a decent spot, with being 9th.

But it's good on the three easy, worthless aoe fights.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2070 third on AHC,
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2075 sixth on Eonar,
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2064 fifth on Portal Keeper Hasabel.

Even on these fights that arcane is supposed to be good at, it's outshined by a number of specs.

Then the rest, and this is why arcane is basically nonviable as a spec to do all fights with.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2076 Dead last on Garothi Worldbreaker
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2074 Dead last on Felhounds
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2082 Imonar is an interesting case, in that there's a lot of downtime for arcane's cooldowns to come back up and little movement in the damage phases.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2088 Back to dead last on Kin'garoth.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2069 Dead last on Varimathras

I'm sure when an arcane mage finally manages to get logged killing Coven, Aggramar and Argus it'll be dead last there too. There's no vulnerability phase with no one else doing pure arcane damage to save it on mythic.

It's just not even close to getting out of last place on any single target-ish fight with a normal amount of movement. They've designed a turret spec that suffers enormously from mechanics and then given it basically zero upside for all that downside.

And it's been this way all expansion, I don't know why they don't want arcane viable in raids this expansion. Maybe because their idea of a spec based around quickening was terrible and they didn't know what to do after removing it?

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Frost was top in ToV and still good in EN but nobody played it. Frost was certainly not trash in those two tiers.

Fire was not "trash" in NH, that's a silly thing to say. Frost was better on ST, but that didn't make fire trash.

Arcane is currently fairly decent, and was fairly decent in ToS, but the other specs were simply better.

Your terminology needs a rework

Yeah it looks like frost is better than I remember in Emerald Nightmare and Trial.

For the important fights in Nighthold fire was trash.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=90 Even on overall it's near the bottom.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1886 Near the bottom on Krosus
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1871 Near the bottom on Aluriel
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1886 5th worst on Botanist
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1863 Bottom half on Star Augur.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1872 Massive gap between frost and fire on Elisande.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1866 Fire is almost the worst spec in the entire game on mythic Gul'dan

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1862 Oh boy, it could pad off 100% worthless damage on bloods that's healed to full instantly on Tichondrius.

Arcane is not fairly decent. You can't reasonably play it as your only spec. There's too many fights where it becomes literally the worst spec in the entire game by a lot. It did comparable damage to the other specs on Kil'jaeden, but dropped to dead last on Fallen Avatar.

[garicasha]

I wish everyone posted as many facts as you did to back things up...yah I definitely learned a lesson there that arcane's relatively decent overall rankings are just a temporary thing that will almost certainly go down as more and more parses get added of bosses they're not good at.

One thing though...there's one parse of Varimathras, which isn't a big enough sample size.

[Sylvaeres]

Other funny thing about warcraftlogs aggregate rankings.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17#dataset=90 You'd think arcane is in a decent spot, with being 9th.

But it's good on the three easy, worthless aoe fights.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2070 third on AHC,
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2075 sixth on Eonar,
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2064 fifth on Portal Keeper Hasabel.

Even on these fights that arcane is supposed to be good at, it's outshined by a number of specs.

Then the rest, and this is why arcane is basically nonviable as a spec to do all fights with.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2076 Dead last on Garothi Worldbreaker
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2074 Dead last on Felhounds
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2082 Imonar is an interesting case, in that there's a lot of downtime for arcane's cooldowns to come back up and little movement in the damage phases.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2088 Back to dead last on Kin'garoth.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=2069 Dead last on Varimathras

I'm sure when an arcane mage finally manages to get logged killing Coven, Aggramar and Argus it'll be dead last there too. There's no vulnerability phase with no one else doing pure arcane damage to save it on mythic.

It's just not even close to getting out of last place on any single target-ish fight with a normal amount of movement. They've designed a turret spec that suffers enormously from mechanics and then given it basically zero upside for all that downside.

And it's been this way all expansion, I don't know why they don't want arcane viable in raids this expansion. Maybe because their idea of a spec based around quickening was terrible and they didn't know what to do after removing it?

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Yeah it looks like frost is better than I remember in Emerald Nightmare and Trial.

For the important fights in Nighthold fire was trash.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=90 Even on overall it's near the bottom.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1886 Near the bottom on Krosus
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1871 Near the bottom on Aluriel
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1886 5th worst on Botanist
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1863 Bottom half on Star Augur.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1872 Massive gap between frost and fire on Elisande.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1866 Fire is almost the worst spec in the entire game on mythic Gul'dan

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...t=90&boss=1862 Oh boy, it could pad off 100% worthless damage on bloods that's healed to full instantly on Tichondrius.

Arcane is not fairly decent. You can't reasonably play it as your only spec. There's too many fights where it becomes literally the worst spec in the entire game by a lot. It did comparable damage to the other specs on Kil'jaeden, but dropped to dead last on Fallen Avatar.

I find it really strange to think fire was that bad on botanist, with 3 targets and then 2 targets to pad ignites. And if you look, it's roughly only 5% or less from middle of the pack, I wouldn't say it was complete trash, although I will say it performed alot worse than I had imagined

[Emerald Archer]

I definitely agree that balancing has been good this expansion, in comparrison to other expansions.

The issue is, too many bias people see their spec and only their spec, and think because that one spec is weak, the balance is terrible.

When in reality, with no bias, looking at the specs in a realistic way, balance has been pretty good.

Yes some specs haven't been, but the majority have been, moreso than any other expansion.

Almost all Antorus logs are currently pretty useless. Not enough recordings, looking at overall on mythic shows later bosses with only a handful of specs having killed them (causing those specs to show much better overall)
And as for heroic, those are more accurate than mythic, but they still mean next to nothing. Because they're heroic, and you can pad+stand still.

Also balance doesn't = pure dps gain, balance = viability for the content you do (m+, raids, pvp) which isn't alway dmg based. Your spec might look bad on warcraft logs, but have amazing utility that means it gets in on fights, or it may look bad overall, because it does "mechanic" duty on bosses in general, or saves all its cds for adds. But it still gets in on fights because as a spec, it's viable, strong and helpful on those fights.


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I find it really strange to think fire was that bad on botanist, with 3 targets and then 2 targets to pad ignites. And if you look, it's roughly only 5% or less from middle of the pack, I wouldn't say it was complete trash, although I will say it performed alot worse than I had imagined

Any dmg dealt to bosses that healed after, was removed from warcarft logs. So pad didn't show.

[Sylvaeres]

I definitely agree that balancing has been good this expansion, in comparrison to other expansions.

The issue is, too many bias people see their spec and only their spec, and think because that one spec is weak, the balance is terrible.

When in reality, with no bias, looking at the specs in a realistic way, balance has been pretty good.

Yes some specs haven't been, but the majority have been, moreso than any other expansion.

Almost all Antorus logs are currently pretty useless. Not enough recordings, looking at overall on mythic shows later bosses with only a handful of specs having killed them (causing those specs to show much better overall)
And as for heroic, those are more accurate than mythic, but they still mean next to nothing. Because they're heroic, and you can pad+stand still.

Also balance doesn't = pure dps gain, balance = viability for the content you do (m+, raids, pvp) which isn't alway dmg based. Your spec might look bad on warcraft logs, but have amazing utility that means it gets in on fights, or it may look bad overall, because it does "mechanic" duty on bosses in general, or saves all its cds for adds. But it still gets in on fights because as a spec, it's viable, strong and helpful on those fights.


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Any dmg dealt to bosses that healed after, was removed from warcarft logs. So pad didn't show.

Ah that makes sense. I was gonna say, 3 targets is the fire mage dream

[garicasha]

One thing I was completely wrong about is I thought Legion would have some world first kills with 3-4 discipline priests for the damage. But the utility from all the other healers is just so strong that I don't think it was even seriously considered.

[garicasha]

You main a warlock? I wouldn't have guessed.