Mythic Coven Stacking

[Cyriaa]

Hi all, my guilds been progressing on Mythic Coven for the past two nights and I have been trying to drill it into our tanks head to stack the bosses tighter so that mages can cleave (we started with 3 frost mages but had to sit one later tonight). We have at least 3-4 kills on the fight if bosses had been stacked close enough for mage cleave (3%, 5%, 8% wipes etc).
For those who have killed it, how were you able to get your tanks to stack the bosses closer?
What techniques were they using to ensure they were close but not too close?
Do you have video footage showing this? I would like to show our tanks how to do this better, so any tips and tricks you guys have for me would be great.
We have a prot pally and prot warrior as our main tanks. I might be able to convince raid lead to swap one of our tanks for an alt if necessary (I'm unsure if they even have one tbh) but this is the comp we've been working with since last tier. (in other words, if tank comp is the problem we pretty much have to work with this, I'm not suggesting to bench them.....)

[Dracodraco]

1: Link logs so we can see what's happening.
2: If your kill relies on whether or not the bosses are in cleave range for your frost mages, you're struggling for DPS. It's unlikely your tanks will be able to keep them in cleave range for any extended period, and whenever they fuck up and move them sliiightly too close to each other, every other dps gets fucked untill they move apart again, negating any benefit the cleave might have.
3: Seriously, the tanks aren't going to be able to do this in mythic consistently. They *may* be able to do it if you have a DPS tanking the shadow-sister and they only switch on the fire add and tank storms, but even then the DPS tanking shadow-sister has to move into a zone for storms.

[Cyriaa]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...t=10&source=16


I'm looking at other mage parses and they're getting a significantly more double lance than we are.
I don't expect tanks to stack them 24/7, but there are certainly areas where they can be stacking them and simply aren't.
For example, the very start of the fight there's a full minute and a half where next to nothing is going on that they could be stacking them outside of storm.
That in itself would be significant. Also our pulls are usually a clusterfuck with tanks taking probably close to 30 seconds to get bosses into position.

[Tech614]

Since your instant mentality is it's a tank issue and they should be benched, I would say you should look in the mirror and probably bench yourself for an affliction lock.

Fight is not a dps check, if you're wiping it's not because tanks didn't perfectly keep the mobs in your cleave range and you clearly never tanked anything in your life if you think that is realistically possible on this fight. Not only is the top priority have the lowest downtime where they're immune, both bosses aren't the easiest to move or re position at all.

If you think the reason you can't kill the boss is frost mage cleave then bench yourself. Problem solved.

[Cyriaa]

Since your instant mentality is it's a tank issue and they should be benched, I would say you should look in the mirror and probably bench yourself for an affliction lock.

Fight is not a dps check, if you're wiping it's not because tanks didn't perfectly keep the mobs in your cleave range and you clearly never tanked anything in your life if you think that is realistically possible on this fight. Not only is the top priority have the lowest downtime where they're immune, both bosses aren't the easiest to move or re position at all.

If you think the reason you can't kill the boss is frost mage cleave then bench yourself. Problem solved.

I never said to bench tanks. I'm asking for advice....

[8bithamster]

Since your instant mentality is it's a tank issue and they should be benched, I would say you should look in the mirror and probably bench yourself for an affliction lock.

Fight is not a dps check, if you're wiping it's not because tanks didn't perfectly keep the mobs in your cleave range and you clearly never tanked anything in your life if you think that is realistically possible on this fight. Not only is the top priority have the lowest downtime where they're immune, both bosses aren't the easiest to move or re position at all.

If you think the reason you can't kill the boss is frost mage cleave then bench yourself. Problem solved.

Pretty much this. If you want dps parses on mythic and only focus on that, don't do progress

[Radio]

You could set up world markers for "default boss positions" when nothing is going on. If tanks have to move for storm/torment, they just return the boss to the marker when it's over. Bonus points if the markers are in safe zones for the fire torment.

[marvelousbob]

First off, a single frost mage getting cleave 100% of the time on this fight is unlikely to make up 3% and that is basically impossible anyway with all the movement the tanks need to be doing during torment/storm.

Second, the difference between being in range for splitting ice, and being too close and buffing the bosses is like 2-3 yards? A few seconds of the bosses being too close will undo any damage a single frost mage is able to make up vs your entire raids DPS.

Third, its highly unlikely to me that the bosses being too far is what is wiping you. Unless all your DPS are alive when you wipe to the 8 stack of the second healer adds then you probably have tons of room for improvement still.

That being said, if you are dead set on keeping the bosses in range for your frost mage, you can drop 2 marks 18 yards from each other and have the tanks tank EXACTLY on those marks when it is possible, but personally as somebody who has tanked and raid led this fight, I would not bother.

Are you ignoring torments after the second flames? Are you having a DPS tank the chaos and shadow bosses to avoid bosses buffing? Are your tanks dragging the bosses to the torments to help keep cleave on them? If you are doing all those things and still wiping due to lack of DPS when the second healer adds give you 8 stacks then maybe see which of your DPS are severely under performing. This fight is not a DPS race at all.

- - - Updated - - -

Looking at your best pull you have multiple avoidable deaths, and almost 10% uptime on shivan pact. Fix those issues and you will easily kill this boss.

[srathgar]

Looking at your best try that evening (Wipe 21), maybe if the tanks werent accompanied by almost 2 people on the dmg meter it would've died?

[Popastique]

First off, a single frost mage getting cleave 100% of the time on this fight is unlikely to make up 3% and that is basically impossible anyway with all the movement the tanks need to be doing during torment/storm.

Wrong. Tanks don't need to move until Diima comes out, coz storm can be easily avoided by using tank cd's, it is not that bad. So you have about 3 minutes of bosses standing together, cleaving them will profit a lot. And later on, when you finish off 1st round of Aman'Thul dudes - you can put the bosses in cleave position once more.

For those who have killed it, how were you able to get your tanks to stack the bosses closer?
What techniques were they using to ensure they were close but not too close?

Putting marks on the floor will help a little, but to be honest - practice is needed. It is not particularly hard to do it, but tanks need to realize the needed range and communicate with raid. You can do a heroic run and practice this boss if your tanks don't get it

P.S. Forgot to mention that we 3-tank this fight.

[Cyriaa]

We're using DPS to tank one of the adds, is that what you were doing or did you have 3 actual tanks?

[Popastique]

3 actual tanks, 2 tanks always on noura. here is the recent kill log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

this way the bosses don't need to be moved at all, unless amanthul dudes are up

[Erolian]

Raid dps is ridiculously bad even if the tanks were tanking them 45 yards apart for the entire boss. One of the mages died three times in the log you linked? The norgannon adds are killing people? Lightning? Why are we even talking about the tanks really

[Deleted]

3 actual tanks, 2 tanks always on noura. here is the recent kill log - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

this way the bosses don't need to be moved at all, unless amanthul dudes are up

You don't need 3 tanks to do that. Asara doesn't melee so any melee with a taunt can tank her (our feral does).

[Popastique]

You don't need 3 tanks to do that. Asara doesn't melee so any melee with a taunt can tank her (our feral does).

You don't, but for some guilds it is easier this way. Just trying to help by showing all the options )

[Deleted]

You don't really need 3 tanks. We used a DPS as a tank when the fire was not up.

We had a really good run on this boss, killing it in 8 tries. Imo, you tank them in boomkin cleave range, and if your mages can double IL its a bonus. Every time the boss goes immune, you pretty much lost the gain of double IL. So the goal is to ensure boss dps not being hindered.

Make sure to prep the initial parts of the fight well, as the shadow + fire combo is lethal. The Storm - > flames, cc -
> storm and lightning - > storm is lethal. Your dotters should do significant more dmg, but with less deaths the boss would have been dead - so it's mostly about survival.

Make sure your tanks place the bosses on the heal adds prior to spawning, and that your raid knows where to focus first. Also just tell your locks to focus the 2 first, multidot had little value on those, and can be done as the first add dies (prior to heal).

[Khebul]

Can you kill first amanthul adds without BL? IF yes - lust on pull and burn the boss before second set of amanthul adds comes.