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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by By the Emperor View Post
    Plenty of people who sign up for lower/upper kara and cathedral. It's just Seat which is terribly designed, both in terms of bosses, trash pack mechanics, their patrols, pack density and aesthetics. I really have nothing good to say about that dungeon.
    There is plenty good about the dungeon it's just the bad points outweigh it. It has some of the best designed 5 man bosses yet puts the last one in a fucking dark purple room, with dark purple soaks and dark purple void zones. It also has some of the worst trash ever designed. The 2nd boss also helps outweigh the other 3 good bosses by being one of the worst 5 man bosses ever made.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    There is plenty good about the dungeon it's just the bad points outweigh it. It has some of the best designed 5 man bosses yet puts the last one in a fucking dark purple room, with dark purple soaks and dark purple void zones. It also has some of the worst trash ever designed. The 2nd boss also helps outweigh the other 3 good bosses by being one of the worst 5 man bosses ever made.
    There is a drink you can buy in the vindicaar that makes you glow making the room on last boss much brighter. Really helps seeing the soaks.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by lonely zergling View Post
    There is a drink you can buy in the vindicaar that makes you glow making the room on last boss much brighter. Really helps seeing the soaks.
    Gonna be nerfed in 3 2 1
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Nobody is stopping you to play Elemental casually during questing or raiding #1000 with your disabled mage friends.

  4. #44
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    The timer in Seat is fairly unforgiving compared to other dungeons. If they increased the timer to 37/38 minutes it'd be way better

  5. #45
    Most of seats difficulty comes from people just not knowing the dungeon. Nothing in the dungeon is difficult assuming you have the gear to match. A few notable things I usually see when I pug 15-17 seats on alts:

    - people dont know how to handle the trash mobs debuff before first boss and the channels
    - people dont know what the adds do/to do in the banished phase on first boss
    - tanks dont know how to tank the boss around the room
    - groups most of the time dont understand that the dungeon has a "tempo" until you close the void portals and get frustrated when the little dudes spawn on them
    - tanks are unaware of the tricksters' existence and patrolling routes
    - tanks unaware of the safe routes/pulls to take
    - people dont know how to handle the debuff that pulls others to you
    - groups dont know how to handle the trash before 3rd boss, as in what to interrupt/dark matter/etc
    - interrupts on tentacles on 3rd boss are just random and you end up missing a fear/1shot cast
    - not soaking the purple void zones which are very easy to see because theres is a HUGE spiral cone on top of them

    all of the above are easy to fix - they require preparation and communication, things which are very rare generally in all 15-17 groups. seat is different than other dungeons because while in most dungeons you can brute force yourself through, seat requires a bit more coordination.

    then again, anything above +15 is meant to be done via teams people build and coms, not putting 4 dudes together and hoping someone saves an interrupt.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by By the Emperor View Post
    It's just Seat which is terribly designed, both in terms of bosses, trash pack mechanics, their patrols, pack density and aesthetics.
    It might be, but it's still not a hard dungeon at all compared to the time it has been out. As someone mentioned, if anyone struggle with a dungeon below +15 it's not the dungeon that is the problem. For any decent premade who are not new there, they wont find Seat (-1 level of their highest completed in time) more difficult than the normal dungeons/levels they normally do considering how much they know about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by That guy maybe View Post
    The timer in Seat is fairly unforgiving compared to other dungeons. If they increased the timer to 37/38 minutes it'd be way better
    Not really, I'd say it's more unforgiving in both Maw and Nelth (without kitepulls) on higher levels. I think the timer is fair, in the "not really high levels" (20-24) you do have time for both one and two wipes for an average group doing that level. It's more that you have too much time in a few other dungeons.


    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Most of seats difficulty comes from people just not knowing the dungeon. Nothing in the dungeon is difficult assuming you have the gear to match. A few notable things I usually see when I pug 15-17 seats on alts:
    This ^

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by That guy maybe View Post
    The timer in Seat is fairly unforgiving compared to other dungeons. If they increased the timer to 37/38 minutes it'd be way better
    I agree if timer was longer it wouldn't be as bad.

    But its the dungeon with least overall player experience
    Least forgiving when it comes to pulling 100% without more than you need
    Bosses have mechanics different than any other dungeons with little or no room for error
    extremely limited room to kite affixes like sanguine and necrotic

  8. #48
    It's not a hard dungeon, what makes it hard is people having no clue about any abilities/environment in the dungeon because they cba to look it up.

    I had two experiences this week in seat, one was a +12 key which we didn't even finish because me and the group leader were the only people that had a "m+ score"....other 3 had NEVER done a m+ dungeon before so you can imagine how it went....

    Other was a +17 with all the people being above 2k score and they actually done seat before above +15, so it was a blast, no issues whatsoever....

    So yeah, if you want to have somewhat pleasant experience is seat, or at least finish the dungeon, I recommend taking people who done it before at an appropriate level.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ponky View Post
    It's not a hard dungeon, what makes it hard is people having no clue about any abilities/environment in the dungeon because they cba to look it up.

    I had two experiences this week in seat, one was a +12 key which we didn't even finish because me and the group leader were the only people that had a "m+ score"....other 3 had NEVER done a m+ dungeon before so you can imagine how it went....

    Other was a +17 with all the people being above 2k score and they actually done seat before above +15, so it was a blast, no issues whatsoever....

    So yeah, if you want to have somewhat pleasant experience is seat, or at least finish the dungeon, I recommend taking people who done it before at an appropriate level.
    and ? why shuldnt they ? Mythic +12 rewards garbage gear now so its logical that only people quing for it are .... low quality players.

    not their fault that relation of effort vs reward in mythic + is completly out of whack

  10. #50
    Stood in the Fire
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    This warrented a new thread? Wauws.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    and ? why shuldnt they ? Mythic +12 rewards garbage gear now so its logical that only people quing for it are .... low quality players.

    not their fault that relation of effort vs reward in mythic + is completly out of whack
    I am not saying that they shouldn't queue for +12, all I am saying is that even a +12 which is considered super easy nowadays can be utterly messed up if people have no clue what is gonna happen, especially in seat. And the person who left first wasn't me nor the group leader, it was one of the persons that decided to try +12 seat as their first ever m+ experience.

  12. #52
    Seat is annoying, plain and simple. Is it doable? Of course. Do I enjoy doing it? No way. And I still want to enjoy the game I'm playing. So the answer is obvious.

  13. #53
    Warchief vsb's Avatar
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    Seat is not hard. May be a little harder than other dungeons. What makes it hard is players who don't know this dungeon and prefer to avoid it instead of learning. When half of party constantly failing simple mechanics, not kicking or CCing trash, you would have trouble with any dungeon. CoEN was in similar position, Blizzard nerfed it to the ground with multiple nerfs, now it's so easy it's not even funny to run anymore.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorri View Post
    Whenever I get a Seat key I feel I might as well just throw it away. It's the hardest dungeon to find people for. Most avoid it, and with good reasons. It sucks when I'm trying to upgrade my key and it comes to a stop whenever I get a Seat key. Any other dungeon is better. Anyone agree?
    i feel that way when i get upper on a tyrannical week also....

  15. #55
    Seat is the Oculus of Legion.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  16. #56
    Generally people have had horrible experiences in it, and so once they've done it on a decent level, don't want to go back in.

    For my view, there's some affixes which make it bloody hard to get in time on a reasonable key level (Bolstering meaning you can't mass-pull the first area for example). The highest tyrannical key I've tried in there was a 22, at that level, the dps check on viceroy was pretty damn tight, as well as the last boss taking ages due to having bazillions of health, imagine it would be incredibly tedious once it gets even higher.

    I think people not being coordinated with moving around the second area, with the blobs which come out of the sky can often lead to 'oh shit we've pulled all the trash' moments as well, obviously made much worse on teeming weeks.

    It was way worse before they fixed the spawn points for the void portals, at least there's now a consistent pull route. Having spent a lot of time wiping it, I can see why people dislike it, but I'm actually relatively comfortable tanking it now, just need people to be on voice to help coordinate moving around IMO.

    Things like the sunglow potion in the last boss, and finding out I can spell reflect all the dark witherings made it considerably easier too.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Loosecannon View Post
    Bolstering meaning you can't mass-pull the first area for example
    It still works fine, did it multiple times previous week. Pull 2 blobbs first, and then pull all the rest of the trash around 1st boss (except the remaining blobbs).

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Seat is the Oculus of Legion.
    Cant find a better match occulus was also one of my favorites cause you got to ride the drakes, but man did people have absolutely no clue how to even do the Mage boss.

  19. #59
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    It still works fine, did it multiple times previous week. Pull 2 blobbs first, and then pull all the rest of the trash around 1st boss (except the remaining blobbs).
    Just like you can also do the boat area in EoA on bolstering, it just gets very hard to do properly

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