I don't really want lfr to be released...

[Eleccybubb]

1 more week and I can try for mah 340 MACE!

HYPE.

[Garybear]

Lfr is the only real raiding i've done since probs cata. I hate playing the game on a schedule and I dont have 3+ hours to just pug a raid and possibly not get anything because the raids are tuned to require a guild group.

[shise]

What is it to you? do you suck so much that people in LFR gear beat you and you get mad? I bet not, so then why di you care?

Some of us cannot raid, because we have a busy real life, but we want to see the raids. So this tool is perfect and allows us to quickly catch gear so we don´t get 1 shotted by raiders..

[Otimus]

Please do because to me it just seemed a rant.

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I would rather be honest and rude in most cases then be polite and lying. I will respond to people in a frank and forward manner. I was essentially given the " wont someone please think of the children" argument.

You're not being "honest", you're being a judgmental jackass. There's zero value in that. Stop trying to excuse your behavior. You know what you're doing, and you know it's bad. Your basis is entirely "I know I'm being a bad person, but I'm going to keep doing it, because to me, being a bad person is right."

I can tell you one thing, if you really would like more people to be less enticed by LFR, and more enticed by organized raiding, your behavior is probably going to turn off a ton of people to your cause. You're basically helping LFR flourish.

[Mr chub]

You're not being "honest", you're being a judgmental jackass. There's zero value in that. Stop trying to excuse your behavior. You know what you're doing, and you know it's bad. Your basis is entirely "I know I'm being a bad person, but I'm going to keep doing it, because to me, being a bad person is right."

I can tell you one thing, if you really would like more people to be less enticed by LFR, and more enticed by organized raiding, your behavior is probably going to turn off a ton of people to your cause. You're basically helping LFR flourish.

I don't care about how well lfr does. It could have 98% completetion rates I just dont like where it is on the power curve.

[Otimus]

I don't care about how well lfr does. It could have 98% completetion rates I just dont like where it is on the power curve.

Yeah, well, stop being a big damn jerk about it. No one wants to hear a jerk out. You can't be so oblivious to not understand this. You have to know what you're doing here.

There is zero value in being a jerk.

[Terminatrix]

Right now the way the game is... feels right. Sure there are minor problems here and there but at the moment everything feels balanced and in tune. Content is rewarding at all levels of play from world quests to mythic dungeons. Rep rewards actually offer some decent rewards and no matter what you do everything feels like it matters.

...Must lfr come and shatter this? What if for a change it just... didn't? What if mythic dungeons stayed as the proving ground and people with the desire to just slowly filtered into normal? I know this likely can't happen and spring must always end but I find it frustrating. Why must we return to the cycle of simply afking through lfr when without it the game seems so much richer and deep?

you take out LFR and blizz better brace for a major loss of subs...casuals is what makes the core of players in my opinion and lfr is perfect for those elitist and hardcore raiders are not the majority of this game

[Witchblade77]

But you have to do it only once per patch. LFR purpose is to let bottom casuals get to see raid content no to have it as gear progression. Mythic dungeons are far better alternative. Mythic 0 is super easy and offers same itemlvl gear. Stop acting like you have to so normal mod every week. No you dont. Once per patch is enough for you to see raid content and since LFR do not offer brtter gear progression than mythic 0 dugeon there is no point keeping LFR in the game.

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It have effect on game no matter if you choose to do it or not it does have effect on everyone.

1 it objectively takes longer to find the normal group (if you can even find it at all) for only one wing at a time, that will accept you with whatever minimum level of gear you have, in a role that you prefer to play at whatever time of the day or night you have a moment to play it, compared to lfr
2. how exactly other then getting you all feel salty that those dirty casuals get to see the content without going through all the hassle YOU deem appropriate? are you one of those people who complains about existence of narrative modes in single player video games too?

[Witchblade77]

How exactly does concern over how lfr loot inflates ilv making gear progression so broken crafting,rep rewards , and mythic content relate to if you don't like it don't do it?

This is why I kinda hate this topic once it's made hundreds of people flood the thread having no idea what people are talking about and spam it with meaningless one liners that then get repeated in a circle jerk burying the original conversation .

sigh, over-inflation of ivl is NOT an lfr exclusive problem. its blizzard's problem in general and it has been since wrath, long before LFR existed. STOP using lfr as a scapegoat please. especially since reality of your arguments seems to be "i hate it that those dirty casuals seem to be able to get semi decent rewards for content I deem to be beneath me precisely becasue its so accessible for those dirty dirty casuals"

[msdos]

LFR is probably the only thing keeping new people coming to the game honestly. Why else would Blizz develop it? It's so women and children who never even touched a computer before can subscribe and jump into a raid and not need to wait 6 months + being mentored in order to raid.

[Witchblade77]

This argument has been going on for years and the proponents that want LFR gone cannot admit that a guaranteed spot in a group to see a raid instance is a big deal to a lot of players. There's a low minimum ilevel requirement that's easily met but outside of that the spot is yours when it comes up with no begging, no rejection. It's one of the most important things about LFR to the people that use it and it never gets mentioned.

it gets mentioned. repeatedly. anti lfr people just ignore it.

[Otimus]

it gets mentioned. repeatedly. anti lfr people just ignore it.

I'd say a huge portion don't ignore it. They actually greatly enjoy being the gatekeepers and love being able to deny access and absolutely loathe being in random groups where they don't have the power to easily eject people from the group for whatever reason they've decided. A lot of people probably won't admit it, but you totally know a lot of people really think like that.

[Mr chub]

you take out LFR and blizz better brace for a major loss of subs...casuals is what makes the core of players in my opinion and lfr is perfect for those elitist and hardcore raiders are not the majority of this game

I don't think the casual player base was one blizzard ever had with wow. Most people I believe player for hours at a time.

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sigh, over-inflation of ivl is NOT an lfr exclusive problem. its blizzard's problem in general and it has been since wrath, long before LFR existed. STOP using lfr as a scapegoat please. especially since reality of your arguments seems to be "i hate it that those dirty casuals seem to be able to get semi decent rewards for content I deem to be beneath me precisely becasue its so accessible for those dirty dirty casuals"

I agree somewhat with what your saying. Lfr isn't the only offender certainly catch up gear feeds into as well and I'm not a fan of procs that determine if your gear is better or not. I see lfr as the biggest issue at the moment when it comes to balancing out early game rewards but I would never claim it was the only one.

[Witchblade77]

I don't think the casual player base was one blizzard ever had with wow. Most people I believe player for hours at a time.

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I agree somewhat with what your saying. Lfr isn't the only offender certainly catch up gear feeds into as well and I'm not a fan of procs that determine if your gear is better or not. I see lfr as the biggest issue at the moment when it comes to balancing out early game rewards but I would never claim it was the only one.

1. the whole shtick of WoW is at the time it was THE most casual. the ONLY relatively casual MMO on the market, so yeah, WoW always catered to the casual audience. WoW staying casual friendly as the meaning of casual shifted and adopted to the aging gaming population is only par of the course
2. YOU decided that lfr is a biggest offender, but reality is - its not. its just the only mode of gameplay that pretty much removes any and all gatekeeping from the players

I'd say a huge portion don't ignore it. They actually greatly enjoy being the gatekeepers and love being able to deny access and absolutely loathe being in random groups where they don't have the power to easily eject people from the group for whatever reason they've decided. A lot of people probably won't admit it, but you totally know a lot of people really think like that.

you are correct. ignore was bad choice of a word. dismiss? chose not to acknowledge? whatever it may be - basically yeah.

[Soxoffender]

I disagree and offer a different cause. Burnout. Multiple split runs of heroic/ normal on 4-5+ alts every week, maintaining each alt to the nth degree. That kind of schedule/requirements would make anyone burn out on hardcore raiding, which more and more guilds seem to be adopting. I believe that hardcore raiding kills itself, and is like a sport. You can only do it and keep up for so long before the situation becomes untenable.

I think what that person was talking about is a bit of a red herring. I don't think the number of people willing to do what it takes to have a shot at a high World ranking is the best measure of the state of raiding in any event, but looking at Cutting Edge the figures for hardcore guilds are actually quite consistent. Xavius is an obvious outlier because he was relatively easy but a similar (small) percentage of players pick up the achievement each time and it's certainly not something that's obviously dropped off a cliff recently.

At the mid-range of things raiding seems to be doing pretty well. 34.5% of current 120s have got Argus AotC and even allowing for carries I reckon that represents a fairly healthy raid scene: https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/glo...category-15271

One og the biggest benefit is that casual content stops being relevant and now all they have is LFR. WoW what i great system. instead od professions, myrhic 0 amd world content all they can do now is spam LFR great game desing.

I really love curernt gear progression. Things takes time and rewards are kinda good. LFR will destroy it all. It is actualy rewarding to get epic from mythic dungeon. LFr will kill 95% of casual content.

Professions produce better gear than 340 and are you honestly saying that WQs are harder than LFR?

The guy in the link below has a 340 average ilvl and if LFR opened right now he might be tempted to run it for 2 possible upgrades. He probably won't need to because he's still got another lockout of M0 and a first run at M+ and Normal/Heroic raids before the opening wing of LFR is released. He's the 24,167th highest geared DK right now so presumably there's 250k+ players in a similar boat or even better off. I'd be surprised if that figure isn't nearer 400k by the time the first wing of LFR hits. Basically a large number of people (Heroic raiders and above and people who will be doing high M+ keys) are already completely done with gear below 340 and LFR is never going to form part of their progression.

https://www.wowprogress.com/characte...light/Cyaniris

This guy is the joint 1000th best geared player on that same realm (the other guy is 434th). He doesn't have a single slot that isn't already 325 - Heroics are already redundant content for an even larger portion of the playerbase:

https://www.wowprogress.com/characte...ight/R%C3%AEku

[SkagenRora]

What is it to you? do you suck so much that people in LFR gear beat you and you get mad? I bet not, so then why di you care?

Some of us cannot raid, because we have a busy real life, but we want to see the raids. So this tool is perfect and allows us to quickly catch gear so we don´t get 1 shotted by raiders..

From how i understand it after reading a few replies it's something along the lines of, Since lfr drops gear they feel like they "have to" run lfr to maximize their chances of getting the most gear possible, or that they just don't want people to be able to get ilvl 340 item from doing "Very easy mode" raiding.

I find the thought process of these Lfr haters pretty weird but it is what it is

[SirBeef]

Ok but by that measure everyone is also going to have to run Heroic Dungeons, M0 and clear every gear-WQ too since those also have a chance to proc titanforged items. The time investment for facerolling through these is going to be less per boss than queuing and running LFR, so why is LFR the problem? If you're any good then you're going to be pushing high M+ keys and/or clearing Heroic and Mythic raids by the time all the LFR wings have been opened, so you'll have had 2-3 weeks of picking up 370-385 base-level items. You're going to need a lot of super-high titanforges from LFR to compete with that. On the Azerite front, Blizz have already begun nerfing the OP traits which will hopefully close the gap a bit but are there combinations that are exclusive to LFR or do they drop in other difficulties/different locations? I genuinely don't know the answer to that one and I'd definitely agree it's bad design if there's a 340 LFR headpiece with an exclusive combination of traits that out-performs the equivalent 355 Normal one.

Honestly, unless it's your end game then the incentives to bother with it have never been lower. Right now, unless Blizzard tag on some ludicrous Azerite gain from LFR bosses/wings then I fully expect to run it once and otherwise stick to M+.



Have Blizzard definitely confirmed this because some Heroic/Mythic raiders were running LFR in Legion as a result of the additional chance at legendaries and they did very little to address that and just let it it solve itself when people capped out on them.

It has been mentioned a few times by Blues in the past. Blizzard cannot stop people from doing that though. All they can do is slow the means of them doing it. But, when LFR was first released, top end guilds were running them to get early 4pc sets and trinkets, then Blizzard removed good trinkets and provided lame stat sticks. Then they removed tier sets with bonuses. They were added back, becasue they were unfairly punishing players for people intent on running as much as possible to gain the system.

[Lurker1]

Looks like the op didn't get hes wish about to go do some LFR now and win! yeah baby!