If you could have mop back would you have it over bfa?

[Doffen]

MoP was an amazing expansion, but the rose tinted glasses over it are so hillarious...


I was playing WoW the most during MoP, during which i posted on the offical forums a lot. My god when i remember the shitstorm...first over pandas, then over dailes, then about IoT and in the end, a year of Siege.

But the number one and constant complaint was about class design. Class pruning was one of the most popular demands. Every class and almost every spec could literally do anything. CC chains were rampant. PvE items still ruled inside pvp. Hunter had zero weaknesses, and warlocks were super super op.

People ASKED for pruning. They asked for class and spec identity. They ask for anyone to have weaknesses and strenghts again. You could argue that Blizz took it too far (and i don't agree, and i think people are vastly exxagerating the flaws BfA class design), but really, just go and take a look at the complaints back then.

Yeah, unfortunately this happens to every expansion. I am a TBC-fanboy myself, but damn there was some boring shit happening back then.

I think every expansion bring in different people who is not satisfied with how the spec they are playing are doing, how it feels etc. So even though some people praise the class design in one expansion, it's just an opinion. I personally think Legion had the best class design(artifacts ftw) ever, but there are several that disagrees. Life is tough :P

Biggest turn-off for many with MoP was that it had pandas indeed. People didn't think that they were worthy of a story, and as playable race it just failed miserably. Going from Lich King to Deathwing, then Pandaria was a huge letdown for quite a lot of people. I am not saying the actual story was so badly made, but personally I think the trailer to patch 5.2 is the best thing with the expansion :P Best patch-trailer ever, which showed a good story. And that patch is what people seem to praise when it comes to MoP. It might overshadow what was wrong with it. Then we had 13 months was it, with SoO. So great, so great.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Yeah. MoP isn't my favorite expansion, and it had a ton of issues, but class design was leaps and bounds superior to the garbage we've had since WoD.

Honestly, while things like dailies, rep gates, etc. were overdone, MoP was the last expansion where we actually had good class design. WoD class design sucked, Legion class design sucked and BfA class design, unsurprisingly, sucks.

I'd be much happier with rolling the clock back further, of course, but MoP is 10x better than the absolute nonsense we've had to put up with since it ended.

Many classdesigns in WoD were natural progressions from their MoP counterparts though, without any pruning. Shadow with AS was pretty much just a better version of MoP Shadow (fuck CoP), all Lock specs were functionally better versions of their MoP specs (with tuning more in line with everybody else). MM Hunters and Balance Druids were just better versions of their MoP selves, Ret was the by far best it's ever been.

Imo Cata/MoP/WoD were the 3 exansions were classdesign was at it's peak. Shadow and both Warrior Dps specs were PERFECT in Cata, and I will never forgive Blizz for redesigning all 3 of them.

Legion also had good classdesign in general, the problem is that said design was tied to the Artifact weapons, and when said Artifacts were removed going into BFA, it left A LOT of the classes extremely barebones, with a few being functionally incomplete and borderline unplayable. BFA is the first expansion that has a significant downgrade in the quality of the classdesign.

[Wildberry]

Many classdesigns in WoD were natural progressions from their MoP counterparts though, without any pruning.

The problem here is that WoD was characterized by pruning. You can't divorce one from the other.

all Lock specs were functionally better versions of their MoP specs

This is just nonsense, though. For every lock that thinks this, there's 20 who felt the class was ruined in WoD.

Imo Cata/MoP/WoD were the 3 exansions were classdesign was at it's peak.

Warriors were far better in MoP than WoD. WoD really took a huge toll on that class in general, and the minute you move beyond dragonslaying it becomes apparent. DKs were best in Wrath, functionally, Cata only made things worse. The class regained some footing in MoP, only to have certain playstyles stripped and idiotic talents patched on in WoD.

Legion also had good classdesign in general,

It really didn't. The Warrior redesign was horrific, and classes as a whole were dumbed down in comparison to pre-WoD iterations. If anything, BfA is a natural progression from Legion, considering the nonsensical redesigns are in place, and the philosophy behind "interesting" gameplay being locked behind gear/farming is still in place.

tl;dr: Cata negatively impacted classes. WoD gutted them on a whole different level. BfA isn't the first failure, it's a continuation of WoD-era failure.

[Deleted]

no thanks. awful theme and art direction. that alone made me not want to play that expansion.

[kamuimac]

I think most of the top pvp players would rather have mop back over bfa

no. for me BfA is way better then MoP and eons above shit like legion

[ThrashMetalFtw]

The problem here is that WoD was characterized by pruning. You can't divorce one from the other.

That's not what I meant, I am against pruning in general, but many specs going into WoD didn't have any pruning that affected them in any real way.

This is just nonsense, though. For every lock that thinks this, there's 20 who felt the class was ruined in WoD.

Their feelings on the matter are irrelevant. Mechanically all three Lock specs were extremely similair in MoP and WoD. Their numbers just weren't tuned to be automatically 1# FOTM any more.

Warriors were far better in MoP than WoD. WoD really took a huge toll on that class in general, and the minute you move beyond dragonslaying it becomes apparent. DKs were best in Wrath, functionally, Cata only made things worse. The class regained some footing in MoP, only to have certain playstyles stripped and idiotic talents patched on in WoD.

Yes Warriors were better in MoP than in WoD. But Warriors were a lot better in Cata than they were in MoP aswell, which was that I was talking about. Frost DKs still has the same basic playstyle that they've had since Cata, and Legion Unholy was the by far most interesting and complicated version of that spec of all time, so agree to disagree here...

It really didn't. The Warrior redesign was horrific, and classes as a whole were dumbed down in comparison to pre-WoD iterations. If anything, BfA is a natural progression from Legion, considering the nonsensical redesigns are in place, and the philosophy behind "interesting" gameplay being locked behind gear/farming is still in place.

That was my point. Many of the BFA specs are just Legion without Artifacts. Those specs worked well in Legion because of the Artifact, but going into BFA, Blizz removed the Artifacts without anything new to compensate. BFA classdesign is still better than Classic and TBC though, but that's not much of a compliment.

tl;dr: Cata negatively impacted classes. WoD gutted them on a whole different level. BfA isn't the first failure, it's a continuation of WoD-era failure.

Cata was the pinnacle of the original classdesigns though. Going from Classic to TBC to WotLK to Cata, every class had a natural progression without any real redesigns. Each expansion just kept building on what had been before, without any dramatic changes (Hunters and Paladins got new resources, but the base classes were still the same). It's ok to prefer some of the WotLK classes to their Cata counterparts (personally loved WotLK MM Hunter and Holy Paladin), but the vast majority of them saw HUGE improvements going into Cata...

[Revamp Man]

From my perspective, in MOP these things dont bother me because they are optional stuff to me (doesnt affect my character's power level). In MOP my amulet slot is not locked to an artifact and i can get drops from dungeons and raids which doesnt require attunements (unlike king's rest and siege of boralus) but in BFA my amulet slot is stuck with heart of azeroth and there is no alternatives. I am forced to grind out COA rep for my main and alts,just to have a non-gimped character. In MOP my character is not gimped even if i ignored all the rep grinds (in MOP rep grind is optional, in BFA rep grind is mandatory).

MOP rep gating doesnt stop me from getting my MoP profession bonuses (yeah, professions mattered back then) , and we even had Grand Commendations back then to double the speed of the rep gain for alts, and until today it still puzzles me why they were removed.
Are u seriously comparing these rubbish contracts (only able to have 1 up) that only works for 7 days, missions + emissaries (daily quests from MOP in disguise) and island expeditions that failed miserably VS blizzard's greatest rep creation, the GODLY MoP Grand Commendations ? /facepalm

Where was the commendation for black prince?
Also to get the commendation you needed revered
CoA is the easiest grind that has been in wow since MoP
Also yeah you could get gear in MoP through the dungeons...that never changed and the rep gear was much stronger

[Paperfox]

MoP was, IMHO, the last great expansion. So yes.

[Wildberry]

That's not what I meant, I am against pruning in general, but many specs going into WoD didn't have any pruning that affected them in any real way.

I mean, that's inaccurate for a number of classes anyway, but the minute you start doing PvP in any remotely serious capacity the pruning becomes blatantly obvious. Class design is WoD was extraordinarily shallow, and that's why the community treated the WoD 3s meta as the joke it was.

Their feelings on the matter are irrelevant. Mechanically all three Lock specs were extremely similair in MoP and WoD. Their numbers just weren't tuned to be automatically 1# FOTM any more.

You're trying to pretend this is about numbers, from the Warlocks I've spoken with, they made peace with the idea that numbers needed to be brought down, they weren't happy with abilities being trimmed.

Frost DKs still has the same basic playstyle that they've had since Cata

BoS changes Frost quite a bit, and it was added in the lackluster expansion of WoD.

Legion Unholy was the by far most interesting and complicated version of that spec of all time, so agree to disagree here...

It's not really an "Agree to disagree" thing. Festerblight, and comparable DoT-based playstyles offered more complexity and greater control of the class. Nothing was really complex or compelling with Legion Unholy, and there's a reason the community has such mixed feelings on the issue.

With regard to changes to DKs specifically brought by Cata:
-Unholy got Dark Transformation, which put greater emphasis on the pet, and less on disease (save for instances like trinkets allowing Festerblight)
-Blood DPS was gone (PvE is largely irrelevant, because 2h Frost took its place while it existed. PvP is a different story)

The worst change brought about by Cata was the change to the rune system, which significantly dumbed the DK class down.

That was my point. Many of the BFA specs are just Legion without Artifacts. Those specs worked well in Legion because of the Artifact, but going into BFA, Blizz removed the Artifacts without anything new to compensate.

And if you liked Legion's specs, you'll be thrilled by the 8.1 Azerite traits. We get really exciting things like one for Unh DK where you have to occasionally pay attention to positioning when popping DT.

Just as the Artifact traits were largely hollow and uninteresting compared to previous iterations of the classes, Azerite traits are (even with datamined improvements) lackluster as well, just more so.

[Icoblablubb]

It is though? Because it's the same freaking system that Legion, without the legendaries grind cap, and with artifact power that is for all spec.

so it's basically what everybody asked in Legion.

wtf dude? no one asked for removal of tier sets and implementing a worse artefact system .. dude be real here though.

and not to forget that classes feel like shit while in Legion atleast with your artefact traits most classes felt fluid to play

[FAILoZOFF]

MoP and Cata had the best class design imo, so... yeah. Not saying it was perfect but the best I have seen in WoW. BfA class design on the other hand... well I stopped playing bevause of it. While WoD felt like a downgraded MoP design, so does BfA one and Legion. Difference being that Legion class design had questionable appear at best to begin with.

[bigbleach]

I think most of the top pvp players would rather have mop back over bfa

I stopped playing for the longest in MoP and WoD because of the bullshit legendary grind for the entire expansion and if you didn't have one, you didn't get into raids. I have no interest in that kind of bullshit every again.

[Cazz17]

I'd prefer having MoP back to anything.

[Perkunas]

MoP Survival Timeless Isle PVP coin farming? What I wouldn't give. RIP Ranged Survival you were my best friend...

[PlazaPlaza]

No. That shit won't fly these days. Compared to Legion and BFA, MoP had no content at all. Nothing above dailies, heroics, and raids.

Indeed.


'But there is no content in BfA'

Fucking minecraft mongs these days.

[Ukon]

Loved MOP while it was out. Disliked the whole daily quest grind. World Quests feel much better. But the daily quests is the only thing that I can remember that I disliked.

But no, I would not go back to MOP, if I could. I prefer the game moving forward. But MOP will remain my favorite expansion of all for now. That is when I had the most time available to play also (student at the time).

[Enosh]

People ASKED for pruning. They asked for class and spec identity. They ask for anyone to have weaknesses and strenghts again. You could argue that Blizz took it too far (and i don't agree, and i think people are vastly exxagerating the flaws BfA class design), but really, just go and take a look at the complaints back then.

problem is it's a question of how many people like X and just stay quiet because they have X vs how many people want Y and complain all the time until they get Y

[Stardrift]

Indeed.


'But there is no content in BfA'

Fucking minecraft mongs these days.

They don't realize BFA is the exact same as Legion. Most of them are people who joined half way through Legion when it was already packed full of end game quests and content.

BFA has turned out to be the exact damn thing as Legion's launch.

[Jhonmakehow]

Worst expansion ever made..
F*** pandas.
F*** retard dungeons.

TOT save that expansion.

[Relapses]

Worst expansion ever made..
F*** pandas.
F*** retard dungeons.

TOT save that expansion.

Wow dude, show us on the doll where the panda touched you.