I don't like BFA dungeons and here's why

[seasy]

Considering they fixed Invis and Shroud about 3months ago, I'm not sure if you even play M+

They didn't fix invis or shroud, they basically gave matrons truesight which means they can see through invis or shroud.
You can still kill the packs in the beginning and shroud/invis pot the pack before the first boss.

[Battlebeard]

Just to make a side comment here, it was mostly them not scaling sockets/trinkets well and lots of skips being found out, but by the later half of MoP and WoD you had boosters selling double AFK carries. I don't have specifics but I'm guessing like 1/3 of MoP CMs were just bought back then, maybe even more, as boosters here claimed to have run hundreds or even a thousand people (and made 3k/month supporting their families in third world countries, or so people posted here anyway)

They were still fun to do legitimately though. It's just they had such a wide timeframe that they became easy after a few months. Those xmog sets were dope and I look back on the experience fondly. And yeah, the trash wasn't all that annoying like BFA dungeons were (getting back on topic here)

Yes, they turned out kinda bad by the end. I did em early when they were still kinda challenging, it was so much fun

The key system works, as it becomes harder, and even if you don't masspull, I still think it's too much trash :/

[klaps_05]

1. Actually average time per dungeon is nearly the same. Average time for Legions first dungeon set is around 34 minutes and for BFA around 35 minutes.

2. Not sure how can someone call the dungeons unoriginal:

Atal - outdoor troll/undead zone
Kings rest - the tomb of the troll kings with very little trash and mostly
Motherlode - robots and goblintown
Underrot - underground undead and blood magic
Temple - snakes and lightning inside the temple of Snekman
Siege of Boralus - maybe for horde its a bit boring, as alliance its cool to have a dungeon in the city you are usually in
Freehold - pirate theme on 3 hills fighting your way through three the pirate clans
Shrine - water and old god theme
Waycrest - witches and wrapping up the Waycrest story, with potential to expand into the Drust
Tol dagor - basically mission impossible plot, running through the prison from the sewers all the way up, going through each floor, one with prisoners with small storyline inside(the worgen brothers), then officer floor, then killing the Warden on top.

Not saying the dungeons are better or worse than Legion, but definetely on par with quality.

3. Adding tyrannical/fortified on level 2 actually made the m+ curve easier as previously there was a massive wall at +10 and now the difficulty increases gradually. Tyrannical and fortified are boring affixes, but as they dictate strategy, for m+ purposes it makes sense to add them to +2 than +10.

4. At the moment trash mechanics arent too bad but some need a bit of work. E.g. Berserkers debuff, the Frost shock by casters in KR should focus on slow not on damage (a +20 raging/bolstered add can take off 80% of your hp with an instant semi-unpredictable random target cast??), Monkey banana rampages in Boralus has too short of a CD and too high of an impact, etc.

I am pretty sure blizzard expected this kind of reaction by players as the dungeons were designed with M+ competitions in mind, and they probably want us to just get used to it. Majority of players are going from dungeons where trash just gets pulled 15 mobs at a time and kited to having to micromanage a lot of mechanics and turning high m+ keys into the hardest content of the game, so there is a bit of a new learning curve.

[Sageless]

And then they nerfed that.

I really don't get what you're trying to argue here. There was a short period of time where it was farmed and then Blizzard considered that an unhealthy playstyle.

Past that, it's not like there was any point that people were actively searching JUST for MoS because it was quick. People would look for keys they need/want gear from, and just avoid things like Cath/Seat.

While in my memory MoS keys were still highly valued (especially by carry groups).
You also mention the main reason why BFA dungeons are not liked. In Legion they added Cath/Seat and everyone avoided them like the plague. For BFA they looked at that and thought, well the problem is that people aren't doing our Cath/Seat design dungeons, lets force them by making all of them like that.

[Aestereal]

I think most of the BFA dungeons are Cathedral-level, rather than Seat-level. Nothing feels as hopeless as the third boss of Seat on high tyrannical did, and the trash in most of BFA's dungeons isn't as oppressive as Seat's. Cathedral ended up being a fine dungeon after a few nerf; it was its release M+ state that was crazy.

[Freshouttajail]

Hi guys, I thought I would share my opinion on BFA dungeons, and general design of bfa mythic +. So first off, I don't think dungeons are bad. I think most of them look okay and have cool story behind them. That being said they have a ton of problems:

1. They are too damn long and there is too much trash. Average time of dungeon has gone up dramatically since Legion and I hate it. Most of the dungeons have rediculous amount of trash, so much so that for me it kinda overshadows bosses especially in fortified weeks. Also it kinda blends dungeons together when all you do is kill trash, kill trash and kill more trash. Nothing unique, cool or fun about it. Especially since there is literally no short dungeons like Maw of Souls and medium lenght dungeons are minority. How did they not learn that in legion, the longest dungeons such as Halls of Valor and especially those later added
seat and cathedral - most of the people didn't like them. And now in BFA they are all they get.That leads me in 2nd point

2. Now this is subjective - but stylistically they are so much worse than Legion dungeons. I get that they had to fit the theme of expansion and lore but they kinda seem ordinary, bland compared to Legions ones where there was so much more diversity, the legion ones, at least to me, were so much more original, and overall better designed. (i'd like to read what you think of this)

3. Why are Fortified and Tyrannical level 2 affixes? There is nothing fun about them they are literal stat sticks, it was so much better in Legion when they were 10+, they could have at least made it 7+ with introduction of 4th affix. It's just making the dungeons even more boring especially in lower keys. Guess it levels out higher up.

4. Trash mehanics, I know I kinda already said this, and I know that they nerfed most of the annoying sh*t and I know that it's supposed to be there to kind of raise the skill cap and introduce different team comps but god damit it's done so poorly that it makes me and some people I know (can only speak for us) not wanna run some dungeons. Again, this is subjective as well,as this whole thread and I have no data to back it up but this is how I feel so you may agree or disagree.

1. I don't think dungeons should feel like WQs like they did in Legion. I also don't think they should take hours like in Vanilla. The 30ish minutes they take now is pretty fine to me. I could see them being lowered to 25 minutes maybe, less than they and it just doesn't feel like a dungeon.
Trash is bad because trash does nothing fun, has no reward and only risk. If trash was interesting I feel like it would be less of an issue fora lot of people.Fortified and Tyrannical are shit affixes.
Seat and Cathedral were hated because they had cancerously unfun mechanics, it wasn't really because of the time they took. They were not even that long when you did them well, but on average people sucked ass so it made them much longer than they should actually take. That's a trend in BfA dungeons as well. It takes me MUCH LONGER to finish a +4 than a +12. That's because people in +12 are not blind handicapped playing on a laptop touchpad with their nose.

2. Subjective indeed, I also feel like Legion had more devirsified styles. I don't mind that much personnally as long as the gameplay is fun.

3. Like I said before, they are shit affixes and should just be removed. The only flat stats boost should be the key lvl, everything else should be mechanics.

4. Just sounds to me like you have trouble with some mechanics and learning to do them better would do a big difference.

[Wild]

Hi guys, I thought I would share my opinion on BFA dungeons, and general design of bfa mythic +. So first off, I don't think dungeons are bad. I think most of them look okay and have cool story behind them. That being said they have a ton of problems:

1. They are too damn long and there is too much trash. Average time of dungeon has gone up dramatically since Legion and I hate it. Most of the dungeons have rediculous amount of trash, so much so that for me it kinda overshadows bosses especially in fortified weeks. Also it kinda blends dungeons together when all you do is kill trash, kill trash and kill more trash. Nothing unique, cool or fun about it. Especially since there is literally no short dungeons like Maw of Souls and medium lenght dungeons are minority. How did they not learn that in legion, the longest dungeons such as Halls of Valor and especially those later added
seat and cathedral - most of the people didn't like them. And now in BFA they are all they get.That leads me in 2nd point

2. Now this is subjective - but stylistically they are so much worse than Legion dungeons. I get that they had to fit the theme of expansion and lore but they kinda seem ordinary, bland compared to Legions ones where there was so much more diversity, the legion ones, at least to me, were so much more original, and overall better designed. (i'd like to read what you think of this)

3. Why are Fortified and Tyrannical level 2 affixes? There is nothing fun about them they are literal stat sticks, it was so much better in Legion when they were 10+, they could have at least made it 7+ with introduction of 4th affix. It's just making the dungeons even more boring especially in lower keys. Guess it levels out higher up.

4. Trash mehanics, I know I kinda already said this, and I know that they nerfed most of the annoying sh*t and I know that it's supposed to be there to kind of raise the skill cap and introduce different team comps but god damit it's done so poorly that it makes me and some people I know (can only speak for us) not wanna run some dungeons. Again, this is subjective as well,as this whole thread and I have no data to back it up but this is how I feel so you may agree or disagree.

1. true.
2. true.
3. true. this especially is extremely stupidly done by blizzard
4. true.

Just like you say, BFA dungeons arent bad, but Legion dungeons were 100x better and much more fun. The thing is that I dont understand the changes. For example, why did they introduce forti/tyran at lower key when it worked out perfeclty in legion, starting at key level 10?
It seems to me that blizzard forgot the most important rule: never change a wining team / if it ain't broken, don't fix it. Yet, Blizzard did and they fucked up with that.

[breslin]

Probably the weakest expansions for 5 mans IMO