Overthinking Calia's few voice lines.

[Shelly]

That's kinda redundant. Being a cannibal means you eat your own kind. You don't need to clarify. Source on the orcs doing that? Also the darkspear quit that practice when they joined the Horde. No clue what third race you might be thinking about. Still, if you want to think about which race has caused the most destruction of property and loss of life, no one tops the night elves and draenei. Orcs don't even come close.

Orcs, source, Saurfang. Ever level in Borean Tundra?

Trolls, pretty sure they still reference their cannibalism in their /flirt and /silly lines.

Forsaken, they literally had a racial called "Cannibalism."

[Powerogue]

What are the rest of her poke dialogues? Now I'm curious.

This only makes me more confused how she'll handle forsaken who aren't Jeremy Jeremiahson the lordaeron farmer but Killdeath Deathkiller <The Deathinator>. That's them "embracing" their new identities as edgelords.

[Omedon]

What are the rest of her poke dialogues? Now I'm curious.

This only makes me more confused how she'll handle forsaken who aren't Jeremy Jeremiahson the lordaeron farmer but Killdeath Deathkiller <The Deathinator>. That's them "embracing" their new identities as edgelords.

The other noteworthy (I consider it noteworthy) one was "For Lordaeron!" I think the rest are all generic or "light's blessing" oriented.

[Powerogue]

The other noteworthy (I consider it noteworthy) one was "For Lordaeron!" I think the rest are all generic or "light's blessing" oriented.

That seems all the more in the direction of her not being content with some allied race spinoff in Stormwind. She wants Lordaeron.

I say she can have it.

[cparle87]

Orcs, source, Saurfang. Ever level in Borean Tundra?

Trolls, pretty sure they still reference their cannibalism in their /flirt and /silly lines.

Forsaken, they literally had a racial called "Cannibalism."

Again, fucking source for orcs. You're going "It's there, trust me."

The darkspear quit using it, even if they use it in jokes, do some damn research.

And despite whatever the fuck it's called, it's not actual cannibalism unless they're eating their own kind. Unless you consider any sentient being eating any other sentien being cannibalism, because that's a whole other can of worms.

[Shelly]

Again, fucking source for orcs. You're going "It's there, trust me."

The darkspear quit using it, even if they use it in jokes, do some damn research.

And despite whatever the fuck it's called, it's not actual cannibalism unless they're eating their own kind. Unless you consider any sentient being eating any other sentien being cannibalism, because that's a whole other can of worms.

Dude, do the damn quest.

Saurfang is talking to Garry about the atrocities of when they were corrupted by the Fel. About how the sound of them slaughtering pigs at Orggrimar reminds him of the screams of the children they killed on Draenor.

Garry gets uppity saying we shouldn't give a damn about the children of the enemy.

Saurfang asks him what makes him think it was the children of the enemies.

Then Saurfang says he "doesn't eat pork."

Anyway, you also need to stop thinking in whataboutisms.

One faction has sentient beings that literally eat other sentient beings. The other does not.

Both have done terrible deeds, but again, only one faction is keeping slaves and mind controlling them. The other faction isn't.

One faction is using weapons of mass destruction. Repeatedly. The other faction isn't.

One faction has used these weapons on non-combatants and members of their own faction. The other hasn't.

One race in one faction has a classic intro that straight up says "you're a bad guy doing bad things for the dark lady and you're only a member of the Horde to stop the Alliance from retaking Lordaeron." No other race has that.

- - - Updated - - -

PostSubject: Epic Conversation Between Garrosh and Saurfang: I don't eat pork ... Revealed! Epic Conversation Between Garrosh and Saurfang: I don't eat pork ... Revealed! I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 18, 2008 12:46 pm
High Overlord Saurfang: We are surrounded ... Our enemies press in from all sides, young Hellscream. The Scourge descends like locust from the north. The Alliance holds the only secure shipping lane in this region and even that is at risk of being lost to those dreaded mists. Our only viable port for resupply is held by the Forsaken on the other side of this blasted continent! Anything our zeppelins cannot haul must be brought in by ship and travel the length of Northrend to reach us.

(Garrosh Hellscream grunts)

Garrosh Hellscream: Shipping lanes ... supplies ... You bore me to death! We need nothing more than the warrior spirit of the Horde, Saurfang! Now that we are firmly entrenched in this frozen wasteland, nothing shall stop us!

High Overlord Saurfang: Siege engines, ammunition, heavy armor ... How do you propose to shatter the walls of Icecrown without those?

Garrosh Hellscream: Propose? I will show you what I propose! There ... Now we now have a shipping lane. And just for good measure ...

High Overlord Saurfang: So the prodigal son has spoken! Your father's blood runs strong in you, Hellscream. Impatient as always ... Impatient and reckless. You rush headlong into all-out war without a thought of the consequences.

Garrosh Hellscream: Do not speak to me of consequences, old one.

High Overlord Saurfang: I drank of the same blood your father did, Garrosh. Mannoroth's cursed venom pumped through my veins as well. I drove my weapons into the bodies and minds of my enemies. And while Grom died a glorious death - freeing us all from the blood curse - he could not wipe away the terrible memory of our past. His act could not erase the horrors we committed.

(High Overlord Saurfang pauses)

The winter after the curse was lifted, hundreds of veteran orcs like me were lost to despair. Our minds were finally free, yes ... Free to relive all of the unthinkable acts that we had performed under the Legion's influence.

(High Overlord Saurfang nods.)

I think it was the sounds of the draenei children that unnerved most of them ... You never forget ... Have you ever been to Jaggedswine Farm? When the swine are of age for the slaughter ... It's that sound. The sound of the swine being killed ... It resonates the loudest. Those are hard times for us older veterans.

Garrosh Hellscream: But surely you cannot think that those children were born into innocence? They would have grown up and taken arms against us!

(High Overlord Saurfang shakes his head)

High Overlord Saurfang: I am not speaking solely of the children of our enemies ...

(High Overlord Saurfang pauses)

I won't let you take us down that dark path again, young Hellscream. I'll kill you myself before that day comes ...

Garrosh Hellscream: How have you managed to survive for so long, Saurfang? Not fallen victim to your own memories?

High Overlord Saurfang: I don't eat pork ...

(High Overlord Saurfang spits.)

You're welcome.

[Motso]

.

So your belief is that the quest text you have linked proves that Orcs ate Draenei? Because it doesn't and you have missed the whole point of it.
Knowing that, it sure makes me wonder if those other examples you have dropped are similar cases of you simply not getting the point.
Legit, I know you think you have just made some important point, but all you have managed is to prove that you are a person not worth taking seriously.

[Shelly]

So your belief is that the quest text you have linked proves that Orcs ate Draenei? Because it doesn't and you have missed the whole point of it.
Knowing that, it sure makes me wonder if those other examples you have dropped are similar cases of you simply not getting the point.
Legit, I know you think you have just made some important point, but all you have managed is to prove that you are a person not worth taking seriously.

Uh huh.

So that means the mana bomb by the horde in Stonetalon never happened?

That means in Classic you can't find a blindfolded human in the Undercity being lead around by some Forsaken while they talk about keeping her mind controlled as a pet?

That the Forsaken in Classic now don't have a racial ability called "Cannibalize?"

That the Forsaken never bomb the outside of Lordaeron with the blight causing their own soldiers outside the wall still fighting to die and be reanimated as equivalently scourge puppets?

That the Forsaken never used the blight at the wrathgate indiscriminately killing both the horde and alliance?

That this cinematic never plays: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKutw1zDgms

And finally, get over yourself. It's game lore from the only source that matters - the game.

[cparle87]

Dude, do the damn quest.

Saurfang is talking to Garry about the atrocities of when they were corrupted by the Fel. About how the sound of them slaughtering pigs at Orggrimar reminds him of the screams of the children they killed on Draenor.

Garry gets uppity saying we shouldn't give a damn about the children of the enemy.

Saurfang asks him what makes him think it was the children of the enemies.

Then Saurfang says he "doesn't eat pork."

Anyway, you also need to stop thinking in whataboutisms.

One faction has sentient beings that literally eat other sentient beings. The other does not.

Both have done terrible deeds, but again, only one faction is keeping slaves and mind controlling them. The other faction isn't.

One faction is using weapons of mass destruction. Repeatedly. The other faction isn't.

One faction has used these weapons on non-combatants and members of their own faction. The other hasn't.

One race in one faction has a classic intro that straight up says "you're a bad guy doing bad things for the dark lady and you're only a member of the Horde to stop the Alliance from retaking Lordaeron." No other race has that.

- - - Updated - - -



You're welcome.

"High Overlord Saurfang: I am not speaking solely of the children of our enemies" He says the sound of swine being killed reminds him of the children on both sides whose deaths he witnessed and caused... and you somehow invent that the orcs were cannibals?

[Shelly]

"High Overlord Saurfang: I am not speaking solely of the children of our enemies" He says the sound of swine being killed reminds him of the children on both sides whose deaths he witnessed and caused... and you somehow invent that the orcs were cannibals?

I'll admit it's a bit read between the lines on that one, but it's not much of a stretch after his admission that he doesn't eat pork.

[cparle87]

I'll admit it's a bit read between the lines on that one, but it's not much of a stretch after his admission that he doesn't eat pork.

It's no different than "I almost drowned in the ocean once and seeing seafood reminds me of it and it's unpleasant so I don't touch the stuff anymore." You're doing A LOT of reading between the lines.

[Shelly]

It's no different than "I almost drowned in the ocean once and seeing seafood reminds me of it and it's unpleasant so I don't touch the stuff anymore." You're doing A LOT of reading between the lines.

Not nearly as much as you.

Hope you're ok now though, fish tacos are wonderful.

[cparle87]

Not nearly as much as you.

Says the guy who calls orcs cannibals because one orc doesn't like eating pork.

[Shelly]

Says the guy who calls orcs cannibals because one orc doesn't like eating pork.

OK, remove Orcs from the "horde members that practice cannibalism list" and look, you've still got two.

Even removing the Trolls you've still got one.

And either way everything "evil" perpetrated by the Horde is either done by the Forsaken or the Orcs.

You could even argue that the reason Garry is so mad at Sylvanus in Gilneas is because she's winning in the race to the bottom.

[cparle87]

OK, remove Orcs from the "horde members that practice cannibalism list" and look, you've still got two.

Even removing the Trolls you've still got one.

And either way everything "evil" perpetrated by the Horde is either done by the Forsaken or the Orcs.

You could even argue that the reason Garry is so mad at Sylvanus in Gilneas is because she's winning in the race to the bottom.

Unless forsaken are eating other forsaken it's not even cannibalism, despite what the move is called. So you've got zero. Also you got the tauren who had their own civil war and assassinated their own leader. Goblins selling each other into slavery at the drop of a hat. Blood elves fiddling with powers no one should and damning a naaru to the void. But sure, only the orcs and forsaken are evil.

"You could even argue that the reason Garry is so mad at Sylvanus in Gilneas is because she's winning in the race to the bottom. " Wtf are you even trying to say? The only person who can be blamed for the war in Gilneas is Garrosh himself. He started it, he planned it. While Sylvanas was incommunicado he even went so far as to press gang her people into it. Sylvanas options were go along with the invasion and do it her way. Or do nothing and let Garrosh conquer Gilneas using a bridge of her own people's bodies.

[Kemsa]

I think it's much more likely that it's referencing the fact that Lordaeron is dead and gone, and she doesn't want to be seen as Lordaeron's new Menethil queen.

Also, the Horde isn't and never was evil.

Did you not see the entire Vanilla campaign? the the war campaign on cataclysm, the war campaign on Pandaria, the one in BfA? the small skirmishes?

Yah sure whatever, we can say the Horde reacted because of hunger and starving citizen. But Arathi Basin?, the conquest of Tarren Mill? Alterac invasion from the Forsaken aided by the already invaders the Frostwolf? really? Warsong Gulch and the battle for Astranar? Retaking Azshara, Stranglethorn Valley, Aiding the Revantusk in the Hinterlands?

Idk maybe your definition about "evil" its Chaotic Evil, wich in rpg elements, yeah i agree with you, the Azeroth Horde NEVER was Chaotic Evil. But accepting the Forsaken already change the definitiion of the Horde fromTrue Neutral to Chaotic Neutral in correlation to the other "Azeroths factions".
But Vanilla itself demonstrate that the Horde got mini campaigns against the Alliance.... wich let be honest... they are the Heroes of the game.

Who didnt created an Orc warrior because you wanted to kill humans, destroy their homes, kill their children and **pe their wifes.... yeah.. much for "we are not evil"

i play Horde.
@cparle87 seems you didnt played a Worguen.... good let me tell you that Sylvannas knew that Garrosh wanted to take control of the Northen Eastern Kingdoms thanks to the visions of the Death when she throw herself at Icecrown Citadel. But she also was pushing the invasion with the plague (something that garrosh himself told sylvannas not to do) because she wanted the SCYTHE OF ELUNE, a mystical weapon that later on Legion we get to use. So she didnt cared about the Forsaken we later discover that, she knew that letting Garrosh pushing alone will mean that the Night Elves residing in the hearth of Gilneas will escape with the Scythe.

But then everything ends in, they escaped. BLANK SPACE WITH LORE THAT SUPPOSE TO BE HERE, now Sylvannas knows that she can make Elune appear if she kill Night Elves, and she decides to burn the tree because she was looking for Elune. While people say it was because of Saurfang or the "hope" of the nightelves.

[cparle87]

@cparle87 seems you didnt played a Worguen.... good let me tell you that Sylvannas knew that Garrosh wanted to take control of the Northen Eastern Kingdoms thanks to the visions of the Death when she throw herself at Icecrown Citadel. But she also was pushing the invasion with the plague (something that garrosh himself told sylvannas not to do) because she wanted the SCYTHE OF ELUNE, a mystical weapon that later on Legion we get to use. So she didnt cared about the Forsaken we later discover that, she knew that letting Garrosh pushing alone will mean that the Night Elves residing in the hearth of Gilneas will escape with the Scythe.

But then everything ends in, they escaped. BLANK SPACE WITH LORE THAT SUPPOSE TO BE HERE, now Sylvannas knows that she can make Elune appear if she kill Night Elves, and she decides to burn the tree because she was looking for Elune. While people say it was because of Saurfang or the "hope" of the nightelves.

I've made worgen characters before. While Sylvanas was off trying to kill herself Garrosh plans the invasion, co-opts her people into it, with the intention of using them as cannon fodder for his own troops. Sylvanas returns before the invasion kicks off, introduces the val'kyr, and convinces Garrosh to hand over command of the invasion over to her. Calling it off was never an option. Her only option was to get control of it so her people weren't killed needlessly.

As for everything else you've said, about Sylvanas knowing about the Scythe, pushing for the invasion, that's just untrue. According to the very quests you mentioned Sylvanas didn't even know the Scythe was IN Gilneas until after she'd already conquered the city partway through their questing experience. So she couldn't have been pushing for the invasion or got herself in charge of it in the first place to look for it.