Balance Affinity: Do anybody use this?

[apustus]

I use it occasionally as resto in raids, extra reach is never not a good thing.

Also people saying that you only use affinities for the passives; have you actually tried pressing swiftmend/wild growth as balance/guardian or frenzy regen as balance/resto?

[huth]

It does have a 1.5 minute cooldown for Feral.

Something like Guardian and Resto's Master Shapeshifter PvP talent would be nice to have baseline for all specs with the Affinities.

It has no CD for Guardian, though. Although its inconsequential for Feral anyway, seeing as they have no reason to use it. Might be why it's still there, nobody cared about it enough to change it or even complain about it.

[akthalion]

It has no CD for Guardian, though. Although its inconsequential for Feral anyway, seeing as they have no reason to use it. Might be why it's still there, nobody cared about it enough to change it or even complain about it.

Yeah probably, there are just very few situations for changing between melee dps spec and range dps spec. As dps I would prefer Guardian or Resto Affinity as you need those abilities a lot more often and are more impactful than just having the same dps in melee/range. I think Ferals use Balance Affinity though, but only for the increased range for AoE. Its the same with as Balance spec as well, I probably would never take Feral Affinity, and even in Shadowlands as we would never have combo points for using Maim in contrast to a Resto/Guardian catweaving.

I would use Balance Affinity in Resto Mythic+ but it costs more mana than catweaving with Feral Affinity, and in raids progression Guardian Affinity is more useful. Although now in Shadowlands, Balance Affinity with Typhoon might get some more use in Shadowlands depending on affixes.

[Mystikal]

Is there anybody on here with alpha access, who can advise how it works in Shadowlands? Do we get access to the new Eclipse (i.e. the proc chance off of each spell, with Starsurge extending), given that we get the Empowerments now without the mastery scaling?

EDIT: Also, based on initial datamining on Wowhead, it would appear that the 90s cooldown for Moonkin Form is being removed for the Feral version of Balance Affinity. Would this make it more competitive for Feral AoE? I don't know much about Feral, really, but it seems as though Sunfire and Primal Wrath together might be decent sustained AoE in Mythic+.

[Vilendor]

You don't see how those two claims contradict one another? Blizz doesn't design around it. It's just there for flavour.

Read my comment again, seems you skipped half of it...

[KOUNTERPARTS]

As Feral, I use it in raids and *some* keystone dungeons.

[Hypasonic]

As resto I've used it on certain raid bosses for the extra range but also for the ability to bound back in conjunction with wild charge, to negate certain knockback mechanics like fetid devourer etc but thats it, would be cool to see it be a viable alternative to kitty weaving.

[Whitepaw]

I honestly don’t get the argument that hybridity is just for flavour etc. That’s just incorrect. Obviously, in a world where you ONLY value stuff according to raw dps or hps, you end up concluding that the Affinities are “just for flavour”, because of the need to balance the classes.

But SL is moving beyond this paradigm - finally. The devs are imposing AoE caps, allowing a lot of classes to gain hybridity (with both baseline spells and talents) and the devs are talking very specifically about “classes”, not specs. It almost feels like TBC/WotLK all over again!

Why is this a good thing? It won’t be for all, but for those of us who enjoy challenging gameplay, it will be. Instead of a formulaic gameplay, where we all play Diablo in a WoW setting with massive pulls, massive AoE and all eyes on the dps meters, we can have unpredictable and surprising gameplay elements. Because now, the mobs can cc the healer in a 5-man - they can re-stealth and go for a dps - they can drop aggro on the tank etc. This can now be implemented in all PvE content, because ALL GROUPS WILL HAVE HYBRIDITY AND THUS THE TOOLS TO HANDLE THESE SITUATIONS!

We had some of this in TBC, but at the time, that meant that some dps classes were mandatory because of their cc abilities. In WotLK, all classes suddenly had cc, but then the dungeons were made much easier, so we didn’t have to use it. Then the LFG tool was added, and suddenly, most PvE content was reduced to an AoE slugfest.

SL seems to change this design paradigm quite violently. If the devs move forward in the new direction, pulls will be smaller, cc will be needed and players should be able and willing to use their class’ tools to handle difficult situations, like tanking mobs away from the designated tank, using cc to peel the healer, cleansing and debuffing regularly etc.

“But I only want to dps!”. Yeah, suck it up, ‘cause it looks like WoW is moving in another direction and it’ll be interesting to see who has the intelligence and mental agility to keep up. There is no doubt that Blizzard risks alienating certain groups of players (like at the start of Cataclysm, when the dungeons were suddenly much harder - and a lot more fun!) and they might chose to only implement these changes in higher difficulty levels because of this.

“But Blizzard will never do this - AoE is what WoW has always been about!”. Nope. Back in TBC, we had 2 glorious years where Heroic 5-man dungeons were really hard. The tanks were AoE capped, cc was used all the time, and I spent a lot of time as a Feral man-handling adds to save my healer from dying. Back then, entering a Heroic 5-man felt like a proper challenge: You were on the grounds of your enemy and the mobs in there tried their very best to kill you. I know that M+ tries to achieve the same, but the whole game design is, in my humble opinion, quite flawed.

And what about the Balance Affinity? I wish it had more punch (more dps) and no CD (I play as Feral, and so have a CD of 90 sec on my Moonkin form). Why more dps? Because I’d like to use it in situations where I can’t reach as a Feral and so need ranged attacks. In fact, I’d like Moonfire in cat form to be baseline for Feral, building combo points, but that’s another discussion. Playing as Moonkin with my Balance Affinity shouldn’t be better than in cat form, obviously - but it shouldn’t be as nerfed as it is right now. Would that give Feral an edge over other melee dps in certain situations? Yes - yes it would. So, how about that balance? Well, I figure that having DH now going unchanged into its 3rd expansion, massively OP in most content, is a pretty convincing argument as to why Feral should be able to realise some of the Druid’s awesome ranged capability.

[Mystikal]

I honestly don’t get the argument that hybridity is just for flavour etc. That’s just incorrect. Obviously, in a world where you ONLY value stuff according to raw dps or hps, you end up concluding that the Affinities are “just for flavour”, because of the need to balance the classes.

But SL is moving beyond this paradigm - finally. The devs are imposing AoE caps, allowing a lot of classes to gain hybridity (with both baseline spells and talents) and the devs are talking very specifically about “classes”, not specs. It almost feels like TBC/WotLK all over again!

Why is this a good thing? It won’t be for all, but for those of us who enjoy challenging gameplay, it will be. Instead of a formulaic gameplay, where we all play Diablo in a WoW setting with massive pulls, massive AoE and all eyes on the dps meters, we can have unpredictable and surprising gameplay elements. Because now, the mobs can cc the healer in a 5-man - they can re-stealth and go for a dps - they can drop aggro on the tank etc. This can now be implemented in all PvE content, because ALL GROUPS WILL HAVE HYBRIDITY AND THUS THE TOOLS TO HANDLE THESE SITUATIONS!

We had some of this in TBC, but at the time, that meant that some dps classes were mandatory because of their cc abilities. In WotLK, all classes suddenly had cc, but then the dungeons were made much easier, so we didn’t have to use it. Then the LFG tool was added, and suddenly, most PvE content was reduced to an AoE slugfest.

SL seems to change this design paradigm quite violently. If the devs move forward in the new direction, pulls will be smaller, cc will be needed and players should be able and willing to use their class’ tools to handle difficult situations, like tanking mobs away from the designated tank, using cc to peel the healer, cleansing and debuffing regularly etc.

“But I only want to dps!”. Yeah, suck it up, ‘cause it looks like WoW is moving in another direction and it’ll be interesting to see who has the intelligence and mental agility to keep up. There is no doubt that Blizzard risks alienating certain groups of players (like at the start of Cataclysm, when the dungeons were suddenly much harder - and a lot more fun!) and they might chose to only implement these changes in higher difficulty levels because of this.

“But Blizzard will never do this - AoE is what WoW has always been about!”. Nope. Back in TBC, we had 2 glorious years where Heroic 5-man dungeons were really hard. The tanks were AoE capped, cc was used all the time, and I spent a lot of time as a Feral man-handling adds to save my healer from dying. Back then, entering a Heroic 5-man felt like a proper challenge: You were on the grounds of your enemy and the mobs in there tried their very best to kill you. I know that M+ tries to achieve the same, but the whole game design is, in my humble opinion, quite flawed.

And what about the Balance Affinity? I wish it had more punch (more dps) and no CD (I play as Feral, and so have a CD of 90 sec on my Moonkin form). Why more dps? Because I’d like to use it in situations where I can’t reach as a Feral and so need ranged attacks. In fact, I’d like Moonfire in cat form to be baseline for Feral, building combo points, but that’s another discussion. Playing as Moonkin with my Balance Affinity shouldn’t be better than in cat form, obviously - but it shouldn’t be as nerfed as it is right now. Would that give Feral an edge over other melee dps in certain situations? Yes - yes it would. So, how about that balance? Well, I figure that having DH now going unchanged into its 3rd expansion, massively OP in most content, is a pretty convincing argument as to why Feral should be able to realise some of the Druid’s awesome ranged capability.

I remember those days well, too. Honestly, some of my fondest memories of playing WoW are from some of the clutch plays I've made as a Druid.

Regarding the cooldown for Moonkin Form Affinity as Feral, if my understanding of Wowhead's datamining is accurate, that appears to be gone in Shadowlands. As to the "why should Druids be able to do it?" question - I would say that you're giving up healing and survivability by not taking either Restoration or Guardian Affinity, so being able to do some semi-decent DPS at range is a fair trade off. If the other melee classes want it? Then to paraphrase Blizzard: "Feral Druid is waiting for you".

Personally, I can't wait for my Balance Affinity to become a pseudo-dps cooldown with Heart of the Wild as a tank. I will find ways to use it, as I do now. I'm stoked.

[RobertMugabe]

The affinities in general just have so much potential, but right now I think that Blizzard is just super careful.

[cparle87]

Agreed, I only would pick balance for the 5 yards as guardian or resto, but having to swap to boomkin form to cast terrible timed spells just sucks...

Thing to note, I'm sure not when they did it, but feral and guardian only get 3 yards added, not 5 like resto does. Actually makes boomy with feral affinity very good for clearing old raids.

[huth]

Thing to note, I'm sure not when they did it, but feral and guardian only get 3 yards added, not 5 like resto does. Actually makes boomy with feral affinity very good for clearing old raids.

That was a BfA change. Melee specs only get 3 yards, Balance and Resto get 5. Can see why, though, 5 yards is basically full melee range already, so they could fight at double what everybody else had.

[cparle87]

That was a BfA change. Melee specs only get 3 yards, Balance and Resto get 5. Can see why, though, 5 yards is basically full melee range already, so they could fight at double what everybody else had.

I am pondering, though. Balance affinity was, if not absolutely neccesary, very helpful to both the feral and guardian mage tower challenges. I'm wondering how that 2 yards being cut off would've affected things.