1. #1

    Rune of the Apocalypse: It can and should be better!

    I really like this rune. The 4 horseman theme and its applications are excellent. However, objectively it cannot hold a candle to Rune of the Fallen Crusader and that is disappointing. It would not take much to have it on par either. Here is an idea

    Current version vs Possible
    Damage↑ : 1% to 5%
    Healing ↓ : 1% to 5%
    Slow : 15% negligible compared to what we have access to, but could function better as a small speed increase or leech. Maybe 2-5% even if only for minions.
    Damage↓ : 2% to 3-5%

    I believe these changes would make this rune compete with Fallen Crusader.

    Hate to see the devs waste such a cool concept because of this lack of insight.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Calevra View Post
    I really like this rune. The 4 horseman theme and its applications are excellent. However, objectively it cannot hold a candle to Rune of the Fallen Crusader and that is disappointing. It would not take much to have it on par either. Here is an idea

    Current version vs Possible
    Damage↑ : 1% to 5%
    Healing ↓ : 1% to 5%
    Slow : 15% negligible compared to what we have access to, but could function better as a small speed increase or leech. Maybe 2-5% even if only for minions.
    Damage↓ : 2% to 3-5%

    I believe these changes would make this rune compete with Fallen Crusader.

    Hate to see the devs waste such a cool concept because of this lack of insight.
    RotFC is active 60-75% of the time. So the damage increase would need to be even higher than 5% for the Apocalypse runeforge to compete. Currently tuning is waaaaaaaaay off.

  3. #3
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    The problem with all the new rune enchants is that they are way to underscaled compared to fc and razorice.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    The problem with all the new rune enchants is that they are way to underscaled compared to fc and razorice.
    The one that increases rp by 20 and gives you a bunch of runic power generation all the time is pretty powerful from my testing, works especially well with Breath as frost.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    The problem with all the new rune enchants is that they are way to underscaled compared to fc and razorice.
    dont worry, they will probably nerf both of those so you have more choices

  6. #6
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    It's a shame...I was hoping it would get a buff to at least make it better than the rather meh version than it was in Legion, it's even worse now since it only affects your main ghoul and not the apocalypse ghouls

  7. #7
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    Removing Fallen Cruader altogether would be the easiest fix to runeforges.
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  8. #8
    Is this going to be when DK"s first came out that we had runes that did extra damage to undead and others than completely forgotten about and removed in wod or legion when people would only choose razorice and fallen crusader?

  9. #9
    Blizzards solutions to fixing things is removing it.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    The one that increases rp by 20 and gives you a bunch of runic power generation all the time is pretty powerful from my testing, works especially well with Breath as frost.
    Translation: Maybe only viable on frost with a breath build and definitely only viable dw, possibly with macrod weapon twisting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calevra View Post
    I really like this rune. The 4 horseman theme and its applications are excellent. However, objectively it cannot hold a candle to Rune of the Fallen Crusader and that is disappointing. It would not take much to have it on par either. Here is an idea

    Current version vs Possible
    Damage↑ : 1% to 5%
    Healing ↓ : 1% to 5%
    Slow : 15% negligible compared to what we have access to, but could function better as a small speed increase or leech. Maybe 2-5% even if only for minions.
    Damage↓ : 2% to 3-5%

    I believe these changes would make this rune compete with Fallen Crusader.

    Hate to see the devs waste such a cool concept because of this lack of insight.
    First of all, maybe doing 5% more damage sometimes is nothing close to FC it's jsut that broken. Secondly, it feels bad when you don't roll the damage up during your big windows and adds a layer of completely unmitigable rng to a parse, I agree it's thematically cool but it's functionally trash in PVE where only damage matters.
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  11. #11
    but what is the simple way to doing this.

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
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    When I was reading the changes to runes in patch notes and stuff on here I honestly thought that they removed FC and Gargoyle from the game and replaced them with these new runes. Boy was I let down when I saw they were still in the game in their old version and the new runes suck in comparison. TBH I'd rather them nerf FC so that it was THE RUNE for all specs of DKs to use

  13. #13
    Why do runes even exist at this stage? they are passives like poisons that you need to go to archerus to apply. There will always be a 'always use this' if they are focused on damage, the only hope for diversity would be if they offered utility instead.

    We all know that it will be 'mandatory' if any one of them pulls a single point of dps ahead, and the benefits arent really felt so its not even 'flavor'.

  14. #14
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    Why do runes even exist at this stage? they are passives like poisons that you need to go to archerus to apply. There will always be a 'always use this' if they are focused on damage, the only hope for diversity would be if they offered utility instead.

    We all know that it will be 'mandatory' if any one of them pulls a single point of dps ahead, and the benefits arent really felt so its not even 'flavor'.
    I don't care if Apocalypse is as good as or better than FC...I just wish it was competitive

    Blood and Frost both got a nice new rune they can use and the one that Unholy got have been a complete joke and the Devs don't seem to care.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    Why do runes even exist at this stage? they are passives like poisons that you need to go to archerus to apply. There will always be a 'always use this' if they are focused on damage, the only hope for diversity would be if they offered utility instead.
    Free enchants forever are still free enchants forever no matter how sad the system has become.
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  16. #16
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Blood and Frost both got a nice new rune they can use and the one that Unholy got have been a complete joke and the Devs don't seem to care.
    Hysteria (can be used by Unholy too) is shitty for either dps spec. Sanguination (can be used by Unholy too) would only be good in an execute for a tank and if the tank got hit hard but FC still heals for more over the course of a fight and mitigates more damage through the +armor for strength conversion plus causes the tank to deal more damage overall too. Spellwarding (also usable by Unholy) is only halfassed on fights that are 100% spell damage and even then FC would still pull out ahead because of the self heal FC gives since bosses don't get increased casting time from debuffs since like BC. Apocalypse (also usable by Unholy) is a joke in PvE and quite frankly of the 3 specs Unholy is the only viable option to use this as the other 2 specs only get 1 ghoul to summon every 2 minutes for only 1 minute max. Apocalypse would be best for PvP though if I assume correctly. FC is still the only rune for Unholy, Frost (offhand), and Blood to use because of the increased strength and heal it provides. Frost still will use Razorice on the mainhand to ensure 5 stacks are on the target at all times and because it has a chance to deal damage on hit. Literally NOTHING has changed with the addition of these new runes other than a possibility that Unholy may use one in PvP and Blood may use one on a specific boss fight that's 100% magic damage (still TBD if its better on 100% magic fights or not)

  17. #17
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    Hysteria (can be used by Unholy too) is shitty for either dps spec. Sanguination (can be used by Unholy too) would only be good in an execute for a tank and if the tank got hit hard but FC still heals for more over the course of a fight and mitigates more damage through the +armor for strength conversion plus causes the tank to deal more damage overall too. Spellwarding (also usable by Unholy) is only halfassed on fights that are 100% spell damage and even then FC would still pull out ahead because of the self heal FC gives since bosses don't get increased casting time from debuffs since like BC. Apocalypse (also usable by Unholy) is a joke in PvE and quite frankly of the 3 specs Unholy is the only viable option to use this as the other 2 specs only get 1 ghoul to summon every 2 minutes for only 1 minute max. Apocalypse would be best for PvP though if I assume correctly. FC is still the only rune for Unholy, Frost (offhand), and Blood to use because of the increased strength and heal it provides. Frost still will use Razorice on the mainhand to ensure 5 stacks are on the target at all times and because it has a chance to deal damage on hit. Literally NOTHING has changed with the addition of these new runes other than a possibility that Unholy may use one in PvP and Blood may use one on a specific boss fight that's 100% magic damage (still TBD if its better on 100% magic fights or not)
    Hysteria is good for dw Frost builds that rely heavily on rp generation and spending...not great for all builds but still more useful than apocalypse is

    Sanguination is isn't bad for Blood to level or pvp with...you don't always have a healer with you and it's a free no input oh shit mechanic

    A Unholy DK would be stupid to use hysteria or sanguination

    Where as why would anyone take apocalypse at all? It was meh in Legion and from what I understand it's even worse now since it only affects your primary ghoul, at least there are niche reasons for the other two....can't say that about apoc

  18. #18
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Hysteria is good for dw Frost builds that rely heavily on rp generation and spending...not great for all builds but still more useful than apocalypse is

    Sanguination is isn't bad for Blood to level or pvp with...you don't always have a healer with you and it's a free no input oh shit mechanic

    A Unholy DK would be stupid to use hysteria or sanguination

    Where as why would anyone take apocalypse at all? It was meh in Legion and from what I understand it's even worse now since it only affects your primary ghoul, at least there are niche reasons for the other two....can't say that about apoc
    The point is every single rune is inferior to FC in nearly all situations for all three specs of a DK. To be more specific, even for a frost DK hysteria is a horrible choice for their mainhand because giving up razorice means they would lose 15% increased damage to probably 75-85% of your attacks because everything you do for damage as frost outside of autoattacks is frost damage and any frost DK who chose to give up FC for hysteria....well he should just delete his account because none of the runes out there beat the 15% increase of your strength that FC provides.
    Last edited by gaymer77; 2020-10-29 at 02:21 AM.

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