New patch, yeah /s

[Quaade]

Another patch, another week with NONE of the fixes needed.

[arkanon]

Another patch, another week with NONE of the fixes needed.

you might want to suggest what changes, in your opinion, are "needed".

[Quaade]

you might want to suggest what changes, in your opinion, are "needed".

Just within the class.

Shield Block and Shield Slam requiring macros and heavy farming to even be usable in endgame content. And all of the unpruned abilities take up an astounding amount of space of the hot-bars. How it should work:

- D Stance is basic at -10% damage done and taken for Arms and Fury.
- Going intro D Stance costs no Rage, going into D Stance removes no Rage either, has no GCD cost, replaces MS/BT with Shield Slam, pages in an empty hot-bar, and transforms your MH into a one-hander and shield (both transmoggable).

The Arms talent D Stance should be renamed Heavy Defender and further increase the damage taken while in D Stance by a further -10%

- the healing from Indomitable made baseline because without Bolstering in the same row the talent is a no-brainer to take due to the constant healing being so good. It's so good that it's the only talent in that row, it's just surrounded by blank spaces.

Second Wind is at the same time the most useless and the most overpowered talent at the same time, which is impressive. The answer:

Arms:
Soul of the Slaughter: Like in Legion.

- Second Wind: When at or below 35% the healing from Soul of the Slaughter is doubled.

Tactician being random AF, to a 20/50/100% chance based on the number of abilities used.

A massive amount of +damage % to especially Mortal Strike makes the base MS feel inadequate to use. Before Exploiter, you can add +90% to the MS damage AFTER the increased damage % from the Mastery.

The Mastery being a baseline, which makes the secondary mandatory instead of a desired stat.

DW on the target means that you deal expected damage, anything lower than the benchmark Mastery value is a decrease in DPS instead of an increase in DPS. Anything above is an increase in DPS which creates an ever scaling increase in the value of Mastery based on the increase in basic DPS from patch to patch.

Having no baseline ability to spread DW, except using a long CD, means a substantial loss in AoE ability.

Then I can move to comparison, which I know is a bit silly, however, in this case, it's so extreme that it's warranted. I've leveled two toons on beta. Arms Warrior and Havoc DH and while the former was soul-crushingly hard the later were ridiculously easy. I can pull 5+ mobs on my DH and have a chance while three mobs on my Warrior were almost impossible and after a deep analysis of both the major difference is the lack of self-healing and lack of active resource generation.

Note that with active it can be auxiliary to other abilities it has no need to be a separate ability.

There are a few other things I could mention and if I did then I'd be here all day.

[crashyk]

Just within the class.

Shield Block and Shield Slam requiring macros and heavy farming to even be usable in endgame content. And all of the unpruned abilities take up an astounding amount of space of the hot-bars. How it should work:

- D Stance is basic at -10% damage done and taken for Arms and Fury.
- Going intro D Stance costs no Rage, going into D Stance removes no Rage either, has no GCD cost, replaces MS/BT with Shield Slam, pages in an empty hot-bar, and transforms your MH into a one-hander and shield (both transmoggable).

The Arms talent D Stance should be renamed Heavy Defender and further increase the damage taken while in D Stance by a further -10%

- the healing from Indomitable made baseline because without Bolstering in the same row the talent is a no-brainer to take due to the constant healing being so good. It's so good that it's the only talent in that row, it's just surrounded by blank spaces.

Second Wind is at the same time the most useless and the most overpowered talent at the same time, which is impressive. The answer:

Arms:
Soul of the Slaughter: Like in Legion.

- Second Wind: When at or below 35% the healing from Soul of the Slaughter is doubled.

Tactician being random AF, to a 20/50/100% chance based on the number of abilities used.

A massive amount of +damage % to especially Mortal Strike makes the base MS feel inadequate to use. Before Exploiter, you can add +90% to the MS damage AFTER the increased damage % from the Mastery.

The Mastery being a baseline, which makes the secondary mandatory instead of a desired stat.

DW on the target means that you deal expected damage, anything lower than the benchmark Mastery value is a decrease in DPS instead of an increase in DPS. Anything above is an increase in DPS which creates an ever scaling increase in the value of Mastery based on the increase in basic DPS from patch to patch.

Having no baseline ability to spread DW, except using a long CD, means a substantial loss in AoE ability.

Then I can move to comparison, which I know is a bit silly, however, in this case, it's so extreme that it's warranted. I've leveled two toons on beta. Arms Warrior and Havoc DH and while the former was soul-crushingly hard the later were ridiculously easy. I can pull 5+ mobs on my DH and have a chance while three mobs on my Warrior were almost impossible and after a deep analysis of both the major difference is the lack of self-healing and lack of active resource generation.

Note that with active it can be auxiliary to other abilities it has no need to be a separate ability.

There are a few other things I could mention and if I did then I'd be here all day.

sadly, we are in the tuning phase atm, there can still be some changes made, but i wouldnt keep my hopes up. i only play fury really as i never really enjoyed arms, just way to slow for me. but i heared it has alot of problems atm on the beta.

[Dancaris]

Just within the class.

Shield Block and Shield Slam requiring macros and heavy farming to even be usable in endgame content. And all of the unpruned abilities take up an astounding amount of space of the hot-bars. How it should work:

- D Stance is basic at -10% damage done and taken for Arms and Fury.
- Going intro D Stance costs no Rage, going into D Stance removes no Rage either, has no GCD cost, replaces MS/BT with Shield Slam, pages in an empty hot-bar, and transforms your MH into a one-hander and shield (both transmoggable).

The Arms talent D Stance should be renamed Heavy Defender and further increase the damage taken while in D Stance by a further -10%

- the healing from Indomitable made baseline because without Bolstering in the same row the talent is a no-brainer to take due to the constant healing being so good. It's so good that it's the only talent in that row, it's just surrounded by blank spaces.

Second Wind is at the same time the most useless and the most overpowered talent at the same time, which is impressive. The answer:

Arms:
Soul of the Slaughter: Like in Legion.

- Second Wind: When at or below 35% the healing from Soul of the Slaughter is doubled.

Tactician being random AF, to a 20/50/100% chance based on the number of abilities used.

A massive amount of +damage % to especially Mortal Strike makes the base MS feel inadequate to use. Before Exploiter, you can add +90% to the MS damage AFTER the increased damage % from the Mastery.

The Mastery being a baseline, which makes the secondary mandatory instead of a desired stat.

DW on the target means that you deal expected damage, anything lower than the benchmark Mastery value is a decrease in DPS instead of an increase in DPS. Anything above is an increase in DPS which creates an ever scaling increase in the value of Mastery based on the increase in basic DPS from patch to patch.

Having no baseline ability to spread DW, except using a long CD, means a substantial loss in AoE ability.

Then I can move to comparison, which I know is a bit silly, however, in this case, it's so extreme that it's warranted. I've leveled two toons on beta. Arms Warrior and Havoc DH and while the former was soul-crushingly hard the later were ridiculously easy. I can pull 5+ mobs on my DH and have a chance while three mobs on my Warrior were almost impossible and after a deep analysis of both the major difference is the lack of self-healing and lack of active resource generation.

Note that with active it can be auxiliary to other abilities it has no need to be a separate ability.

There are a few other things I could mention and if I did then I'd be here all day.

well, yours changes are not to all, you know?
I want no this stancedancing shit, glad they remove it. Also that def stance is shit too. Delete SBlock and SS for Arms and Fury, they dont need that either.
Indomitable is shit for raids and i beleive pvp? Nice to have baseline, but not critical. You understand that if it will be baseline - they have to nerf something, yes?
Same with your Soul of the Slaughter. will you agree to remove second wind to that trait that heal like a shit?
Tactician would be almost same rng as now, and again that will cause massive nerfs to mortal strike or %buff of Overpower.
%coef thing - agree, there should not be so much modifiers.
Mastery is lazy, agree. I wish it be like %of rage gain. more mastery - more rage - more tact procs - more damage.
Cleave is for DW spread, you know? yes, its talent, but you can choose - more cleave damage (lol) or more burst aoe. Collateral Damage is shit.

You can see, that your opinion are highly subjective.

[Quaade]

well, yours changes are not to all, you know?
I want no this stancedancing shit, glad they remove it. Also that def stance is shit too. Delete SBlock and SS for Arms and Fury, they dont need that either.
Indomitable is shit for raids and i beleive pvp? Nice to have baseline, but not critical. You understand that if it will be baseline - they have to nerf something, yes?
Same with your Soul of the Slaughter. will you agree to remove second wind to that trait that heal like a shit?
Tactician would be almost same rng as now, and again that will cause massive nerfs to mortal strike or %buff of Overpower.
%coef thing - agree, there should not be so much modifiers.
Mastery is lazy, agree. I wish it be like %of rage gain. more mastery - more rage - more tact procs - more damage.
Cleave is for DW spread, you know? yes, its talent, but you can choose - more cleave damage (lol) or more burst aoe. Collateral Damage is shit.

You can see, that your opinion are highly subjective.

You do realise that you need macros for Shield Block and Shield Slam to even work, or you need to go through an incredibly complex line of events before you can use them? Macros should only be needed for optimisation instead of for basic gameplay.

Yes, shit, because Mannoroth's Bloodied Bracers was useless for raiding? Never Surrender would be good if it provided real time updating of the IP value. It only updates based on your health when used. IV will due to a quick in human psychology never be used since there might be a moment where we really need it even more than we need it now. You can believe when you're in a house of worship.

And remove Second Wind. Did you completely miss in your emotional response that I offered an alternative that worked on Soul of the Slaughter. Which a lot of people think should be baseline for Arms anyway.

Tactician is complete RNG now. You make the same mistake that everyone else does since they've no understanding of statistical math. In order to make a percentage chance you need 1000 samples instead of a 100. If it has a 42% chance to proc, or give a "yes," then you can have 580 "no" in a row followed by 420 "yes," and that would still create a 42% chance. With a 20/50/100% chance you can at most have two "no" before you have a "yes."

As for Cleave, yes, NOW. Right now the presence of Cleave leads to an increase as it spreads DW around. In SL damage is DECREASED unless DW is on the target. Right now WW deals 100% damage regardless of the presence of DW. In SL, if the benchmark for DW is 20%, then WW will only deal 80% unless DW is on the target.

[tru]

And nobody talks about the cruise control mastery thought they even said before they didn't want so much being passively contributed to overall damage. Prot has our mastery as a passive more or less. With the stuff removed and given to fury I can't see playing arms anymore.