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  1. #1441
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    The "git gud" policy has never worked. It didn't in Cata, it didn't in WoD, and certainly it isn't working in SL, we wouldn't be witnessing such a blooming boost industry otherwise.
    It worked in classic.

    Guilds saw who was a good player and who wasn't. A good but undergeared player would be geared up by the guild. Today it's all gearscore. A good player with bad gear will not get invited anywhere.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I knew a guy who was a guild leader in TBC. He promised the phoenix mount would be rollable for anyone ranked raider and above in his guild. OFC, one night the phoenix dropped and the GM ninja looted it and his guild disbanded on the spot.

    He was an outcast on the server, even with his phoenix mount, until the day he could name change, cross realm.. and he became just another face in the crowd.

    Accountability mattered, and 90% of the time someone got blacklisted for a GOOD reason and it was great to see, even a guy in t5 and a phoenix mount, unable to even get a ZG group because my server held him accountable for his actions.

    Those type of interactions don't exist anymore, because no server (outside of classic realms) have any identity, or even an iota of accountability.
    I miss that.

  2. #1442
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharein View Post
    It worked in classic.
    No, it never worked, at any time. Ghostcrawler even had a quote about this. See my sig.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  3. #1443
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    No, it never worked, at any time. Ghostcrawler even had a quote about this. See my sig.
    Can confirm that at least for me, the harder content became, I became less interested in engaging in it at all, and more interested in just watching videos where people explain the story of the content. It got to a point where I just couldn't perform to the level I used to perform at, simply because there's now way too much stuff to try and keep track of in encounters, at least for me.

  4. #1444
    I am Murloc! Usagi Senshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    No, it never worked, at any time. Ghostcrawler even had a quote about this. See my sig.
    They always forget or act like that was never the case or use sub numbers (which is a very useless quantifier for such things) to try and bolster their weak ass grasping.

    They also forget that a cross-realm dungeon finder was being worked on as far back as 2006 because they (the devs) knew Raid or Die wasn't going to cut it long-term.

    I didn't even finish leveling this time and just went full time back into FFXIV because I knew (did level x2 on the Beta) what bullshit awaited me. If they salvage the expansion by 9.2 I'll be back (very unlikely because of the next FFXIV expansion coming in Nov), maybe, but if 10.0 is a repeat of SL and its gearing changes, I'll be gone for good this time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Exystredofar View Post
    Can confirm that at least for me, the harder content became, I became less interested in engaging in it at all, and more interested in just watching videos where people explain the story of the content. It got to a point where I just couldn't perform to the level I used to perform at, simply because there's now way too much stuff to try and keep track of in encounters, at least for me.
    I used to be hardcore an kept at it for 15+ years but its not worth to me in an MMO anymore. Blizzard always goes back and forth with absurd extremes at the cost of their player base.
    Tikki tikki tembo, Usagi no Yojimbo, chari bari ruchi pip peri pembo!

  5. #1445
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharein View Post
    It worked in classic.

    Guilds saw who was a good player and who wasn't. A good but undergeared player would be geared up by the guild. Today it's all gearscore. A good player with bad gear will not get invited anywhere.
    Difficulty in Classic is nonexistant. Don't get me wrong, I loved Classic and now BC (as a matter of fact, I've almost entirely dumped retail), but claiming that Classic was/is Git Gud in any capacity is... just wrong. Especially if you compare them to its direct predecessors such as EQ or UO.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  6. #1446
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I knew a guy who was a guild leader in TBC. He promised the phoenix mount would be rollable for anyone ranked raider and above in his guild. OFC, one night the phoenix dropped and the GM ninja looted it and his guild disbanded on the spot.

    He was an outcast on the server, even with his phoenix mount, until the day he could name change, cross realm.. and he became just another face in the crowd.

    Accountability mattered, and 90% of the time someone got blacklisted for a GOOD reason and it was great to see, even a guy in t5 and a phoenix mount, unable to even get a ZG group because my server held him accountable for his actions.

    Those type of interactions don't exist anymore, because no server (outside of classic realms) have any identity, or even an iota of accountability.
    Sounds more a problem to the loot system. Esspecially since ganking up on someone because they did something "bad" TOTALLY cannot and will not be abused.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  7. #1447
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharein View Post
    It worked in classic.

    Guilds saw who was a good player and who wasn't. A good but undergeared player would be geared up by the guild. Today it's all gearscore. A good player with bad gear will not get invited anywhere.
    With classic, iunno this seems like a fallacy.

    Lets say a bad player paid for several carry runs with gold they have and gets decked out in the best gear available. Do you still equate gear to player skill? Likely not. And if they are still a bad player despite being decked in good gear, they might just get benched for someone with more skill who needs just better gear.

    And for the opposite end of that, a good player in bad gear, that is fairly nebulous as it doesn't tell us how actually bad their gear is. Are they purely in gray gear with no rings or trinkets or shoulders? Do they have any greens or dungeon blues? Without this sort of information, this might as well be a quantum state raider, in which the player simultaneously has any combination of gear until that information is revealed. And if one were to go further into discussion about the exact nature, its a rabbit hole of goalposts being moved.

  8. #1448
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    I happened to reread the first posts ITT, and couldn't help but to chuckle. Oh dear...
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  9. #1449
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    No, it never worked, at any time. Ghostcrawler even had a quote about this. See my sig.
    Making content hard does not induce players to rise to the occasion to defeat hard content. GC is correct. Human nature is such that positive social experiences cause people to rise to the occasion and beat hard content.

  10. #1450
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Making content hard does not induce players to rise to the occasion to defeat hard content. GC is correct. Human nature is such that positive social experiences cause people to rise to the occasion and beat hard content.
    I don't think its necessarily anything indicative about human nature. Simple why would anyone subject themselves to torture?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #1451
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I don't think its necessarily anything indicative about human nature. Simple why would anyone subject themselves to torture?
    I mean, there are some people with a competitive mindset, and that's OK. What isn't OK is warping around the entire RPG genre to cater to them. Competitive folks can already #$@& around with FPS's, racing games, MOBAs, arcade games or even #$&@ing chess, do they have to "leave their mark" on a RPG as well?
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  12. #1452
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    Good news everyone! A bit more waiting and this milk will become yogurt!

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