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  1. #541
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So again, do you think over 20 different totems available to the Shaman class is “a few”?
    ... Again. Go and re-read my link. Re-read it carefully.

    What rules are you talking about?
    You arbitrarily ruled covenant abilities don't count when people pointed out the Venthyr covenant is an example of paladins using shadow magic. You also arbitrarily ruled out professions when you declared that "profession crafted items are not the same as class abilities".

    Why is that relevant? They’re still abilities you have to use regardless of their duration. Also Rick-it turret lasts 15 seconds.
    You don't "have to" because they're not part of the usual rotation. They're cooldowns. Whereas your turret, as you pointed out, would be integral to your fan concepts ranged DPS, meaning many abilities you have would be tied to the turrets.

    Except the sheer number of totem abilities IS the argument because that was one of the major issues of the old totemic system.
    No, it was not any of the issues, much less major issues. A shaman having to choose whether to drop a fire resistance totem or any other water totem is no different than a paladin having to choose between using fire resistance aura or concentration aura. And again, I'll repeat: you're claiming that the tinker ranged DPS spec would be heavily tied to turrets, so you'd be giving the same issue you claim plagued the shaman class because, just like you claimed was the issue with the shamans, many of your tinker abilities would be tied to the turrets.

    How is rooted in place an issue when the Shaman class is loaded with Totem abilities?
    We're talking about the totems, Teriz. Totems are rooted in place. Are you even paying attention?

    Liquid Magma Totem doesn’t attack the enemy?
    Okay. One totem.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2021-04-04 at 10:40 PM.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  2. #542
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    ... Again. Go and re-read my link. Re-read it carefully.
    And here we go again with you completely avoiding the question.....

    You arbitrarily ruled covenant abilities don't count when people pointed out the Venthyr covenant is an example of paladins using shadow magic. You also arbitrarily ruled out professions when you declared that "profession crafted items are not the same as class abilities".
    As I figured; You're pulling completely unrelated arguments out of context and applying it to this discussion in order to avoid examples that prove your argument false.

    Sorry, I'm simply not going to waste my time with this.

  3. #543
    Pandaren Monk cocomen2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Welcome to ANY thread involving certain individuals. These gems too:

    You cant have X class because it draws too much from Y class.
    Tinker can exist because it uses the exact same systems as A, B, C, & D classes!

    This is probably the one that does my head in the most - saying other popular concepts cannot exist because they are too similar to DKs, for example, and then IMMEDIATELY defending their Tinker concept by saying "But look - it works for hunters, and shamans, and druids, and warlocks!"
    This guy pretty much summarized 400 pages of tinker threads, ty.

    About turret system, its just totem system with extra steps (GCD) so if we just swap visuals from turrets to totems nothing gonna really change; so its easy to say that it can be given to Shamans to relive old times and make fun of them, wheelchair class at it finest.
    Please, there a perfect example of hypocritical thinking:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If Tinkers had anything to do with Hunters, but they don’t. Unlike Bards which are linked to Rogues.

  4. #544
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    This guy pretty much summarized 400 pages of tinker threads, ty.

    About turret system, its just totem system with extra steps (GCD) so if we just swap visuals from turrets to totems nothing gonna really change; so its easy to say that it can be given to Shamans to relive old times and make fun of them, wheelchair class at it finest.
    Except there’s a vast difference between two classes raising undead minions for example, and one class using turrets, and another class using totems.

    In any case, this thread has run its course, so I’m done here. I’ll let people read this thread and reach their own conclusions.

  5. #545
    Is this thread about arcane mage?
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

  6. #546
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And here we go again with you completely avoiding the question.....
    Your question is moot because you didn't properly read the link I provided, of which I already told you to do so, twice.

    And yes, I do consider seventeen totems to be "a few" considering thirty totems were removed from the game so far. The list doesn't include the Fire and Earth Elemental totems as being removed, but they were since you don't drop a totem for them anymore.

    As I figured; You're pulling completely unrelated arguments out of context and applying it to this discussion in order to avoid examples that prove your argument false.
    I'm sorry, but they're not out of context. You were the one who ruled out professions and covenants when speaking about what a class can and cannot do. You can't eat your cake and still have it.

    Sorry, I'm simply not going to waste my time with this.
    Because that's not something you can argue against. I'm using your own arguments, here. Not to mention you're using this as an excuse to weasel yourself out of having to talk about the other arguments that have nothing to do with covenants or professions:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Why is that relevant? They’re still abilities you have to use regardless of their duration. Also Rick-it turret lasts 15 seconds.
    You don't "have to" because they're not part of the usual rotation. They're cooldowns. Whereas your turret, as you pointed out, would be integral to your fan concepts ranged DPS, meaning many abilities you have would be tied to the turrets.

    Except the sheer number of totem abilities IS the argument because that was one of the major issues of the old totemic system.
    No, it was not any of the issues, much less major issues. A shaman having to choose whether to drop a fire resistance totem or any other water totem is no different than a paladin having to choose between using fire resistance aura or concentration aura. And again, I'll repeat: you're claiming that the tinker ranged DPS spec would be heavily tied to turrets, so you'd be giving the same issue you claim plagued the shaman class because, just like you claimed was the issue with the shamans, many of your tinker abilities would be tied to the turrets.

    How is rooted in place an issue when the Shaman class is loaded with Totem abilities?
    We're talking about the totems, Teriz. Totems are rooted in place. Are you even paying attention?

    Liquid Magma Totem doesn’t attack the enemy?
    Okay. One totem.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2021-04-04 at 10:40 PM.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  7. #547
    Pandaren Monk cocomen2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except there’s a vast difference between two classes raising undead minions for example, and one class using turrets, and another class using totems.

    In any case, this thread has run its course, so I’m done here. I’ll let people read this thread and reach their own conclusions.
    THX for proving my point, you see vast difference only if its benefits your concept .... but while its other people concept?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Samurais don’t disappear into thin air, or create shadow clones of themselves. If you’re talking about a standard Samurai concept who is a master of blades, then you’re talking about an Arms warrior. You need to make up your mind here, because it’s leading to confusion.




    No, I’m comparing your class concept to a Rogue, because in terms of classes you’re describing the design space of a Rogue. Blademasters as lore figures are Warriors. In short, you’re talking about two different things.





    Your description of a Blademaster throughout our back and forth;







    You’re describing a Rogue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Demonic turrets =/= Mechanical turrets.
    I love to read your hypocrisy, never gets old and always funny.

    Blademasters is just a Rogue? but Demonic turret is not the same as mechanical one? .... you died on this hill.
    Last edited by cocomen2; 2021-04-04 at 10:38 PM.
    Please, there a perfect example of hypocritical thinking:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If Tinkers had anything to do with Hunters, but they don’t. Unlike Bards which are linked to Rogues.

  8. #548
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    Blademasters is just a Rogue? but Demonic turret is not the same as mechanical one? .... you died on this hill.
    I never said that Blademasters are just Rogues. I said that guy's Blademaster class concept is just a Rogue.

    It's also amusing that you believe that a demonic turret is the same as a mechanical turret.

  9. #549
    Damn Teriz is still goign on about Tinkers?


    Tinkers are the wow equivalent of Fetch.

  10. #550
    Pandaren Monk cocomen2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I never said that Blademasters are just Rogues. I said that guy's Blademaster class concept is just a Rogue.

    It's also amusing that you believe that a demonic turret is the same as a mechanical turret.
    Do you understand that his concept baised on Samuro from hots? .... you know one that uses Mirror images,Elemental Swordplay,Windwalk and 2 handed sword.... so how come its "just a Rogue", then what druid is rogue too ? leather and invis ... same amount similarity.
    Last edited by cocomen2; 2021-04-05 at 12:21 AM.
    Please, there a perfect example of hypocritical thinking:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If Tinkers had anything to do with Hunters, but they don’t. Unlike Bards which are linked to Rogues.

  11. #551
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joker of Muerte View Post
    Damn Teriz is still goign on about Tinkers?
    Your profile picture is great for this comment
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  12. #552
    Can we just stop making every class discussions about Tinkers? They won't happen, at least not as a gnome and goblin centered concept. The games release history shows, that the devs are for most of the game rather uninterested to release content focussed on Goblins and Gnomes, if you compare it to more important and central races like humans, orcs and basically any kind of elf. Basically all they got since release was a short mini event to reconquer their home which they lost and Mechagon, which was casual side content with no relevance to the main story of the game, which was all centered around elves, Jaina and former elves. A whole new gnomish allied race received nothing but a horrible reception online and ridicule.

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