1. #3441
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raamul View Post
    oh god! yes, any rational person would see the truth. Tells me something about the state of WOW fanbois and why DEVs are so arrogant (because these fanbois supports blizz in every topic and they never learn)
    Developers are arrogant because people disagree about the definition of Pay to Win?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  2. #3442
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Anything power advantage (boost, gold to buy stuff) you pay real money for can relatively easily be gained through normal gameplay. In fact thanks to the token mount/pet collectors can get the store mounts without spending any real life cash.
    "Possible to get for free" - is vague thing too. Can I get WF Mythic for free? Yes, technically, I can. But is it actually possible? For me? No. Overall only small % of VIP players can earn enough gold to get everything for free.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  3. #3443
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I don’t know why this is still going on, it’s really not a hard question.

    The game does not seem to fall under literal definitions of P2W, but you can still pay money to win on a subjective level. No one is wrong.

    The problem is that for something to be ‘P2W’ it has to fall under a specific set of criteria, to the point where even if WoW sold gear on the store you could argue that it’s not P2W.

    Despite that, regardless of how it’s dealt, it’s hard to argue that being able to swipe your card and thus gain a leg up on players (either directly or indirectly), isn’t paying money to ‘win’ the game (based on your goals).

    Again, no one is really wrong here, it just depends on how literal you’re being with the term.
    You're on the right track. In general it's a very unimportant discussion to decide what to call or what not to call pay to win; the actual juice of a discussion comes after you decide that because it is only a reference and not an important result; and it's "objectively subjective" anyway: e.g. dictionaries routinely have 2 or more contradicting definitions of the same term because simply big groups of people use both (or more).

    In this case it's almost irrelevant how you call "it" (swiping cards and getting boosts); what matters is to express if you think it's good or bad; I personally think it's bad because it contaminates the e-sport part of the game.

  4. #3444
    Quote Originally Posted by Raamul View Post
    developers are arrogant, partly, because the fanbois always support them no matter what.
    I have tons of issues with the game. Doesn't make it P2W.

  5. #3445
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Boosting is a player created service. As long as it's facilitated by players and not the game itself is not p2w.
    If player services are p2w then all games are, because anyone can sell anything to anyone. I can start offering to beat Sekiro for people, or get 100% in a game. Doesn't make the game p2w.

    Now, lvl boost is certainly a p2w aspect, but doesn't seem to get much focus since no one really cares if you can get to 10 lvls below required lvl to actually start playing. It's negligible.

    Auction house might be p2w as well. But doesn't seem to get focus either. Seems to me that people are just against boosting, which is fine, but doesn't make it p2w.
    In the words of the famous Relapse: If you define the ability to trade real world capital for virtual player power, yes, WoW is P2W.

    You forgot the part where Blizzard personally enables the purchase of the currency needed for these transactions, profiting in the process.
    Last edited by Darkeon; 2021-10-22 at 03:03 PM.

  6. #3446
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    In the words of the famous Relapse: If you define the ability to trade real world capital for virtual player power, yes, WoW is P2W. You forgot the part where Blizzard personally enables the purchase of the currency needed for these transactions, profiting in the process.
    The level boost is the trade of real world capital for virtual player power. The token is not.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  7. #3447
    I'm gonnna use this quote but I think it applies to most people that ever replied in here;

    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    I have tons of issues with the game. Doesn't make it P2W.
    This whole thread has a gigantic misundestanding about how definitions of phrases and words work in any language in the world ever.

    Dictionary writers don't give a single shit if 2 groups of people have contradicting definitions; they will use both definitions given groups that are big enough that use them and they don't care at all if they are contradicting.

    That does not make their dictionaries bad; it makes you not understanding that how you define a phrase has little value after a point; what mostly matters in discussions like this is that after you agree with another person about a definition (and you do not become polemic about what phrase-definition is "right" since both may be "right" since big groups may use both) then you go on to the actual juice of what you're talking about and that is to express if you want something in the game or not which is essentially a discussion on ethics because most political discourse in this world (and this is a political discourse "in the politics of gaming design") is about what you simply think is bad or good and that's inherently extremely subjective and that is why so many religions and parties and philosophies (including in game-design) exist.
    Last edited by epigramx; 2021-10-23 at 08:36 AM.

  8. #3448
    lol look at the amount of circles this guy attempts to go through to justify his delusion

    dude just accept it, wow is as p2w as people say

  9. #3449
    You can (indirectly) buy end-game Mythic Raid and Arena gear including titles while trolling those progressing on their own. You can P2W for a long time in WoW like in almost every
    MMO these days but the sheer scale of it in WoW these days is insane. Was a time a saw more P2W runs than normal runs.

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