Spoonfeeding is bad for the health of the game?

[qwikz]

I was clearing Mythic when I was playing. I guess you missed that part. The only times I missed CE was when I wasn't playing, or didn't care. Mythic raiding is not hard, and everyone can clear the raid given time. High end M+ like 20s+ is definitely harder than the last couple bosses in a Mythic raid tier. 15s is probably comparable to the other 80% of the raid.

I dont care what you used to do, claiming that M+ is more difficult than Mythic raiding is objectively false. In raiding you need to recruit and maintain a guild of at least 20 competent people who you then need to organize and lead in a raid where you then also need to figure out a strategy for a boss that works for you group. Meanwhile in M+ I just need 4 of my friends where the only change in difficulty is that numbers are higher with no change in mechanics, oh gosh that is so hard.

I dont even have to make these point, we can literally check the stats for how many people have completed M+15 versus completing the latest mythic raid and the numbers will speak for themselves. Do the content you enjoy, stop seeking validation for it like it matters.

[Zantera]

I dont care what you used to do, claiming that M+ is more difficult than Mythic raiding is objectively false. In raiding you need to recruit and maintain a guild of at least 20 competent people who you then need to organize and lead in a raid where you then also need to figure out a strategy for a boss that works for you group. Meanwhile in M+ I just need 4 of my friends where the only change in difficulty is that numbers are higher with no change in mechanics, oh gosh that is so hard.

I dont even have to make these point, we can literally check the stats for how many people have completed M+15 versus completing the latest mythic raid and the numbers will speak for themselves. Do the content you enjoy, stop seeking validation for it like it matters.

I just wanted to quote to say +1. As someone who has raided since TBC, the issue with raiding was never the difficulty of the fights themselves but the challenge of everyone doing the mechanics right. A lot of guilds struggle to have a team where everyone is on the same page (skill wise or mentality wise) and just in my own guild there's slow learners, fast learners, people who know what's gonna happen and pre-move, people who get a mechanic and run like headless chickens. There's also people who do mechanics right but it takes away so much focus that their dps drops really low as a result. Sometimes a good player might have an off day as well with lack of focus due to lack of sleep or long day at work or whatever.

There's only been a few times where I felt the fight being difficult was the problem (I did not have a good time with Mistress in Tomb on mythic because of some overlaps) but for the most part the issue is having all 20 players actually play great.

[kenn9530]

uhm,same aplies to raids,get more gear it gets much much easier,but its still capped,m+ isnt capped,plus the personal responsability in m+ is far greater,you can have plenty of deadweight in many raid figths that never have to do any crucial mecanics,the burder is divided,healing wise if you fail in m+ it can be over instantly,a tank dies in m+?its over if u dont have combat res

im saying this as a person that has done some of the hardest figths there are,kj pre nerfs,archimonde pre everyone having high rings,helya pre nighthold,i know the frustration of bosses like star augur or maiden of vigilance

none of them have felt more frustrating or stressful than trying to push high keys,because i always knew that every time we failed there was something i could have done better to prevent it,meanwile in raids the most frustrating thing has always been waiting for the last few slowpokes to stop failing

Gear does not make raiding that much easier, its the mechanics in a raid that can make it difficult, gear just improves chances slightly, in mythic plus the mechanics are the same regardless of key level so all you need to do is deal with a little more damage and the largest factor in mythic plus is mob HP.

Keys is soley down to gear, convenants, group comp more than anything else as long as all players have reasonable skill, mythic plus is far too easy compared to mythic raiding.

[deenman]

Gear does not make raiding that much easier, its the mechanics in a raid that can make it difficult, gear just improves chances slightly, in mythic plus the mechanics are the same regardless of key level so all you need to do is deal with a little more damage and the largest factor in mythic plus is mob HP.

Keys is soley down to gear, convenants, group comp more than anything else as long as all players have reasonable skill, mythic plus is far too easy compared to mythic raiding.

you completly underestimate the power of a few ilvl in raids,you can skip entire mecanics if you have more dps,meanwile in m+ you are always forced to deal with them at their best

[kenn9530]

you completly underestimate the power of a few ilvl in raids,you can skip entire mecanics if you have more dps,meanwile in m+ you are always forced to deal with them at their best

a few ilvl means nothing compared to actually knowing mechanics in a raid, and you cant just skip mechanics in mythic raiding with having a few more ilvl, there is not enough gear provided to do that in a current raid tier. The only thing that matters in high mythic plus keys is how much damage can everyone do and thats it, mechanics are easy to deal with.

[deenman]

a few ilvl means nothing compared to actually knowing mechanics in a raid, and you cant just skip mechanics in mythic raiding with having a few more ilvl, there is not enough gear provided to do that in a current raid tier. The only thing that matters in high mythic plus keys is how much damage can everyone do and thats it, mechanics are easy to deal with.

you dont have much raiding experience im asuming,a few ilvl are huge when the raid is stagnant,hellfire was a big example specialy archimonde,gear made that fight from one of the hardest to pretty avarege,this is mostly a problem with how blizz does gear scaling,its to damn high,the raids are designed to be done with previous raid gear,so once you get its new wgear you will have a huge power advantage over it,sure mecanics will still wipe you and matter more,but....you skip some often making it easier...YOU DONT MAKE M+ EASIER

[kamuimac]

I'm curious if anyone can actually confirm if this is true. Sure you could get to 236 if you were spamming M+ enough and I can certainly see some people with lots of spare time doing it, but isn't this more or less a minority of a minority? I haven't done the math but I could imagine it could take a while to get full BiS gear from M+. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also - I've heard people many times complain that there wasn't anything they could sink all the hours they want to, in a certain activity. We all remember Vanilla where you could farm rep until exalted without any cap, except for the fact that mobs had a respawn timer. Perhaps M+ giving you as much gear as you're running them could satisfy the need for those people who want to relive that type of grind?

its complete bs

1 month is 4 GVs so 4x 252 itlems if you are lucky to not get duplicated and whooping 3k VP or upgrades.

even if you had whole 236 gear from +15s you will hit like 240 itlv at best.

it took me 3 full months to get to 249 itlv.

[kenn9530]

you dont have much raiding experience im asuming,a few ilvl are huge when the raid is stagnant,hellfire was a big example specialy archimonde,gear made that fight from one of the hardest to pretty avarege,this is mostly a problem with how blizz does gear scaling,its to damn high,the raids are designed to be done with previous raid gear,so once you get its new wgear you will have a huge power advantage over it,sure mecanics will still wipe you and matter more,but....you skip some often making it easier...YOU DONT MAKE M+ EASIER

got realm first and CE experience so i know what im talking about, mythic raids are not designed around clearing it in BiS gear, the most important thing in a raid is execution since most players should have suitable gear and skill at that point anyway, even full BiS team means nothing if all those players dont do mechanics, you cant just skip anything in a current raid tier with a little more gear.

Mythic plus is already easy, healing requirements are low in even 25 keys, all that matters is how much damage a group can do, mechanics are easy to deal with in mythic plus. Mythic plus is short encounters, raids are long encounters and lots of ppl.

[Amariw]

pve gearing is mostly fine, the rate of items is reasonable, though systems like domination sockets that give major power ups for competitive content (m+) outside where you obtain them is prolly a bad idea. It pushes people who might enjoy the game for m+ into systems they dont like, or they have to give up on the highest pushing. There isn't a good justification for this.

The problem in pve is more unrelated grinds that just aren't fun, namely Torghast. Torghast forces you to do something you just plain dont like. They improved it a bunch, and next patch you can at least grind it out in one go, so its not nearly as annoying as it was on day 1, but its still design which assumes its worthwhile to make you spend time doing there rather than being able to get it from whatever you enjoy.

As for pvp gearing...SL is kind of a mess. In pvp, gearing just isn't an important goal to shape the game around. Its better when you can feel around 80% as strong as the top when you're just starting. This used to be the case in most expacs, but in SL they had the unfortunate idea to make versatility attainable by pve, meaning the definitive best way to gear in pvp is to do pve, and only then try for the higher ranks where scaling outweights m+/raiding ilevels.

[muto]

I dont care what you used to do, claiming that M+ is more difficult than Mythic raiding is objectively false. In raiding you need to recruit and maintain a guild of at least 20 competent people who you then need to organize and lead in a raid where you then also need to figure out a strategy for a boss that works for you group. Meanwhile in M+ I just need 4 of my friends where the only change in difficulty is that numbers are higher with no change in mechanics, oh gosh that is so hard.

I dont even have to make these point, we can literally check the stats for how many people have completed M+15 versus completing the latest mythic raid and the numbers will speak for themselves. Do the content you enjoy, stop seeking validation for it like it matters.

1. So for the person in charge of recruiting only. Okay, that's one of 20 people.
2. Okay for the raid leader. That's also one of 20 people.

So it's hard for 2 out of 20 people. Got it. or 1 because a lot of the timer the GM is in charge of both. Also more people do M+, because it's more flexible. Raiding requires a schedule, because there's 20 people. Also in raiding, there's always a couple carries that you're forced to bring just to fill out your roster. As I said before most guilds have those couple players they're always looking to replace. It's not harder just more tedious. I would have killed Mythic Denathrius way faster if I didn't have to deal with morons dying to beams or screwing up soaks. It wasn't a hard fight. It was just long. It was literally don't stand in the bad, and soak. Raiding 101. Oh and kicks, but there's an addon that babysits that.