Blizzard on Tier Set Design for Patch 9.2

[Glorious Leader]

Scariizard single-handedly trying to change the Blizzard dev image. Godspeed, brother.

Maybe he was like the one guy that was like "no" to the Cosby room

Tier sets....

gonna save that rep...

[Azadina]

So actually good then.

Not sure if I should envy or pity BFA rollers who are happy with the game. On one hand, they're having fun, and that's great, but on another they are seeing the game in it's worst shape without knowing it.

Pigs in a cage are also delighted at the delicious treats that are my leftovers, but that doesn't mean I see the garbage quite as awesome when comparing it to a meal at a fancy restaurant. The pig just never saw better than the leftovers. Quite the same with BFA rollers; never seen what good is, so they figure they're seeing good when blizzard throws some table scraps.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Hasn't it always worked like that though? I can't count the times a tier set was integrated and baked into it's class the next expansion.

Exactly, this is what they did for over a decade before they decided to remove tier sets and skimp out on art to give us azerite rubbish. They were always used to tweak classes in one way or another, even if the direct effect didn't make it back into the game.

Edit: I am glad though that tier sets are finally obtainable by other endgame means instead of limited to one.

[Pufflesmash]

Not sure if I should envy or pity BFA rollers who are happy with the game. On one hand, they're having fun, and that's great, but on another they are seeing the game in it's worst shape without knowing it.

Pigs in a cage are also delighted at the delicious treats that are my leftovers, but that doesn't mean I see the garbage quite as awesome when comparing it to a meal at a fancy restaurant. The pig just never saw better than the leftovers. Quite the same with BFA rollers; never seen what good is, so they figure they're seeing good when blizzard throws some table scraps.

I disagree. I've actively played the game since the end of Vanilla, and I've always absolutely loved this game, but the game now is so immeasurably better than it used to be (in my opinion) for the type of player that I am:

1. I fucking despise grinding for gear. I understand that this is a core component of WoW, but I've always hated that shit. The grind to stay relevant in this expansion is nonexistent when compared to every other expansion. All of my characters reach a viable item level after a couple nights of M+ runs with my buds and I love it. The minmax grinds (conduits, etc) are tedious, but power difference is negligible compared to minmax grinds from the past. I can effectively ignore the sweaty grinds and still do competitive numbers. It's great.
2. I love dungeons. Dungeons have slowly transitioned from brain-dead "press W" simulators to engaging, challenging, and nuanced mini-raids. They're fun to optimize, they're fun to push, and they're fun to play with your buds. And they're viable endgame content!
3. I love borrowed power. Keeps the classes fresh, especially if you're the type to try out different shit every patch. I've never really understood the general hostility towards borrowed power on this forum, especially when paired with the call for the return of tier sets (which are literally just borrowed power? Am I misunderstanding something?).
4. The actual class/spec gameplay and mechanics are way more engaging than they have been in the past. I've always loved the feeling of getting better at my spec, and nowadays (excluding PvP) it's harder to play perfectly, and so player skill has a lot more weight on performance than in older expansions where players were effectively just sentient stat sticks. Revisiting Classic made me realize how much more nuance there is in current WoW.

There have been annoying aspects of every expansion, including this one, but those things are always blown severely and comically out of proportion (except for time-gated grinds (MoP legendary cape, BFA Azerite gear, etc) which are the fucking worst), and overall the game just feels better and better with every iteration. At least for me.

[Sucralose]

I mean if you take out all the mindless grinds the content outside of solo trash content like torghast has been pretty good. They just have to retire systems and I think they would be in a good spot.

[uncl55]

Ok please what is exactly "active tier set"?

[Dracullus]

“Most of us weren’t around when the old tier sets were”
Dude….

Nice manipulation. MANY of us weren't around. That's the quote.

Last raid with tier was Antorus, released 4.5 years ago.

Not sure if I should envy or pity BFA rollers who are happy with the game. On one hand, they're having fun, and that's great, but on another they are seeing the game in it's worst shape without knowing it.

Pigs in a cage are also delighted at the delicious treats that are my leftovers, but that doesn't mean I see the garbage quite as awesome when comparing it to a meal at a fancy restaurant. The pig just never saw better than the leftovers. Quite the same with BFA rollers; never seen what good is, so they figure they're seeing good when blizzard throws some table scraps.

Ahh, Asmon style. Colorful comparisons with no substance at all and straight up insulting people who like things you don't.

There is nothing in BfA and SL gear that makes it much worse or better than older expacs. Not to mention both had different approach to gearing in the first place. Tier sets are nothing special, just another borrowed power system, but with nostalgia attached to it.

[klaps_05]

whenever theres a huge post around a simple feature, im concerned.

[Claymore]

And again, they’ve proven how out of touch they really are. Most players just want cool looking armor that shows off their class in a cool way. The idea that the sets are defined by their bonuses is ridiculous, and again, shows why Blizzard doesn’t know how to deliver a FUN experience.

[cozzri]

Nice manipulation. MANY of us weren't around. That's the quote.

Last raid with tier was Antorus, released 4.5 years ago.



Ahh, Asmon style. Colorful comparisons with no substance at all and straight up insulting people who like things you don't.

There is nothing in BfA and SL gear that makes it much worse or better than older expacs. Not to mention both had different approach to gearing in the first place. Tier sets are nothing special, just another borrowed power system, but with nostalgia attached to it.

The acquisition of the tier sets is what made it special. Having a part to your set finally finding it’s way to your bag, and getting to have a boost to your class from the set bonus is a great feeling; the excitement for loot needs to make its way back into the game. The only loot that was exciting in BFA was corruption gear, and that was short-lived. Heart of Azeroth and Azerite armor just felt tedious.

Legendary items need to go back to being a guild effort as well. A powerful item that your team worked hard to get and can showcase your strength / dedication. Legendary items now are quite literally talent points with an iLvL; nothing really fun about them.

[Alkizon]

Strictly speaking, we have already discussed this whole organization, so I probably won’t “spill” it out much here, but just leave links to topics with direct general organization, to tier sets + my personal attitude towards legendary items (fortunately, all messages except first one are of insignificant size).

[Echorausch]

I disagree. I've actively played the game since the end of Vanilla, and I've always absolutely loved this game, but the game now is so immeasurably better than it used to be (in my opinion) for the type of player that I am:

1. I fucking despise grinding for gear. I understand that this is a core component of WoW, but I've always hated that shit. The grind to stay relevant in this expansion is nonexistent when compared to every other expansion. All of my characters reach a viable item level after a couple nights of M+ runs with my buds and I love it. The minmax grinds (conduits, etc) are tedious, but power difference is negligible compared to minmax grinds from the past. I can effectively ignore the sweaty grinds and still do competitive numbers. It's great.
2. I love dungeons. Dungeons have slowly transitioned from brain-dead "press W" simulators to engaging, challenging, and nuanced mini-raids. They're fun to optimize, they're fun to push, and they're fun to play with your buds. And they're viable endgame content!
3. I love borrowed power. Keeps the classes fresh, especially if you're the type to try out different shit every patch. I've never really understood the general hostility towards borrowed power on this forum, especially when paired with the call for the return of tier sets (which are literally just borrowed power? Am I misunderstanding something?).
4. The actual class/spec gameplay and mechanics are way more engaging than they have been in the past. I've always loved the feeling of getting better at my spec, and nowadays (excluding PvP) it's harder to play perfectly, and so player skill has a lot more weight on performance than in older expansions where players were effectively just sentient stat sticks. Revisiting Classic made me realize how much more nuance there is in current WoW.

There have been annoying aspects of every expansion, including this one, but those things are always blown severely and comically out of proportion (except for time-gated grinds (MoP legendary cape, BFA Azerite gear, etc) which are the fucking worst), and overall the game just feels better and better with every iteration. At least for me.

Very glad to read something positive and that I can relate to here. As a player who started WoW from day one, I still love the game despite the current content drought and negative things going on at Blizzard, and I know many people who still enjoy playing the game too. It's not that the whole community consists of toxic assholes.

It's sad that the devs (if they read the forum here which I guess some do) have to read so much toxic shit about their game from people who (allegedly) don't even play anymore.

[Raetary]

Ok please what is exactly "active tier set"?

A bonus that grants an active ability. (aka, another spell to press)

[Segus1992]

Not sure if I should envy or pity BFA rollers who are happy with the game. On one hand, they're having fun, and that's great, but on another they are seeing the game in it's worst shape without knowing it.

Pigs in a cage are also delighted at the delicious treats that are my leftovers, but that doesn't mean I see the garbage quite as awesome when comparing it to a meal at a fancy restaurant. The pig just never saw better than the leftovers. Quite the same with BFA rollers; never seen what good is, so they figure they're seeing good when blizzard throws some table scraps.

Played since Vanilla. You're just talking nostalgia, as proven by the fact that you're using nothing whatsoever to argue your point.

[Edward Wu]

I've never bothered to read any of their design posts on the tier sets, I don't need to. The moment I glanced at the actual set bonuses, I knew it was going to be pure garbage from the beginning. Just an example: "Remorseless Winter grants 8% Critical Strike while active." Imagine taking time to design something so boring and thinking it a good include. I pity the people still subbed.

[leothar]

"many of us weren’t at blizzard or working on WoW when the old Tier Sets were around"

WHAT. Antorus was really not that long ago.

[Tyris Flare]

3. I love borrowed power. Keeps the classes fresh, especially if you're the type to try out different shit every patch. I've never really understood the general hostility towards borrowed power on this forum, especially when paired with the call for the return of tier sets (which are literally just borrowed power? Am I misunderstanding something?).
There have been annoying aspects of every expansion, including this one, but those things are always blown severely and comically out of proportion (except for time-gated grinds (MoP legendary cape, BFA Azerite gear, etc) which are the fucking worst), and overall the game just feels better and better with every iteration. At least for me.

The main thing is that not all BP is the same. Some things like tier sets and Legion artifact weapons were received well. An endless stream of silly little things that add .5% damage here or there (like conduits or the netherlight crucible or most azerite traits) are at best really boring and at worst used as cover to prop up classes that are designed badly and should be fixed at a core level. Other games don't really have this probably and don't constantly throw stuff in the trash.

(I mostly agree about the rest, with some caveats)

[Cosmic Janitor]

"many of us weren’t at blizzard or working on WoW when the old Tier Sets were around"

WHAT. Antorus was really not that long ago.

Blizzard has a yearly attrition rate of 15ish % or there abouts. Antorus released around the beginning of 2018. That is 4 years ago, in that time Blizzard has probably replaced 40% of people involved in WoW, and that is a benign estimate. The odds of many people involved in tier sets being among them is not unlikely, so hardly surprising tbh.

[kiramon]

“Most of us weren’t around when the old tier sets were”
Dude….

Lmao he’s probably talking about tier 1/2/3 etc.

Even so, they probably had a lot of movement in general with new teams coming in and moving people out (to overwatch) lol