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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    It's my personal opinion that boosting is no more relevant today than it was before the token existed. It's just way more visible these days because boosting communities are competing heavily against one another so they advertise a lot more than they did back in the day. (The "boosting communities" of yesteryear were the poor souls from each guild who'd spam /2 finding buyers for the next raid.) The first expansion that the token existed in, WoD, didn't even see huge surge in boosting. In fact, tokens in WoD were worth about a fifth of what they're worth today. It wasn't until after Garrison/Order Hall gold started to change hands coupled the introduction of infinitely scaling M+ in Legion that we began to see the presence of boosting soar into the stratosphere. Turns out massive inflation from gold that was consolidated disproportionately amongst the games' most casual players and a bunch of new things to boost were good for the boosting economy.
    I wasn't cosidering the token as part of the equation at all. As we both said, the numbers back then were probably smaller due to the difficulty and generally real chance of getting scammed. Nowadays the whole thing os much more automated, safe and verified due to big organized communities behind the boosting scene. Token made the process of exchanging real money with in game gold just simpler - i assume most deals back in the days were made with real money, just wasn't happening through the game itself.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Yeah, why would they. The only "problem" with boosting is the scope it reached nowadays and the fact It's become the new standard for a lot of players.

    Basically, the community is "at fault", but going through the path of least resistance is always been a thing. I am curious to see data about this and know where the trend changed. If a lot of people pay to skip content, it's not just to buy their gear but to skip a bad part of it.
    Boosting just change from people paying a 3rd party website via cash to buy token, sell token and use gold to boost. They are still paying just now to blizzard. Boosting is always there since classic (not the new classic but when the game launch). Remember back then bots would post in general chat selling gold? Yea those website will also you sell you a boost. Wonder why no one spam in trade chat about selling gold now? Coz blizzard make sure to perm ban those that try to sell gold for cash since well blizzard is selling gold via token so they don't want anyone else taking their profit. If blizzard can easily ban all the gold sellers they can also easily ban booster but they won't. Perm banning booster will hurt their token sells so why they would do that?

    And yes community is at fault. Since WoLK around mid expansion when the gearscore was invented. That's when pick up groups require people who apply to have a min gearscore plus achievement that is higher than what the content they are applying for. That's when this all began. Heck I got heroic ICC done ages ago but for pick up group just for NORMAL it require people with the heroic achivement and higher gearscore than what a normal ICC would drop. So player being player buy runs to bypass these requirement. Then a new gearscore addon is invented raiderio it shows the highest level of dungeons you do and turn it into a point system. So what do players do? Let's pay for a few runs to get the io up so I can actually apply and get accepted. Now blizzard have their own io score so people just pay for more runs to get their io up to 2k or a little above 2k. Not only that it shows how many runs you did with the dungeons so you can't just do a few runs you have to do lot's so people pay for more runs.

    Blizzard haven't fixed its core issue instead they just bandaid fix it. The issue is the community is too toxic. Blizzard needs to bring the ban hammer hard and discourage addon. If you look at GW2 or even FFXIV. No one talks or insult another players coz they can be ban (even a perm ban) so the coummunity is more forgiving. Then they don't allow addon which is a good thing. Right now blizzard have to design fights/dungeons/raids around the fact they expect people to use addon and these addon is getting too powerful so only way blizzard can do is make the fight as hard as possible, with heavy damage dealt, tight time(enrage or the timer in m+), high dps and hp checks so you need to have better gear. Just ban addon outright or limit on what they can tell players. Also blizzard needs to change the character progression. Isn't of a vertical progression they can change it to more or a horizontal progression where getting a higher item level gear isn't going to increase your damage, hp all that much. It helps but maybe just a little. It will also help them when they release new expansion or even major content patch so they don't have to mess around with all the stats squash.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by sponge5307 View Post
    The issue is the community is too toxic.
    I cannot say i agree because if majority of players are fine with this behaviour and partake in it, i become the exception. It's up to Blizzard to choose who they want to support and how they want the game to be played.

    The fact boosting isn't straight out "banned" (not realistically possible, but they could take a way harder stance against it) but they just told people "do your business in the other, less visible room" explains a lot to me. Whether they like it or not, it's something that makes a lot of people stay subbed or buy tokens or whatever - the most important metric is that partecipation to activites is artificially inflated and that can be sold as "look, we did a good thing and players love doing it".
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    I cannot say i agree because if majority of players are fine with this behaviour and partake in it, i become the exception. It's up to Blizzard to choose who they want to support and how they want the game to be played.

    The fact boosting isn't straight out "banned" (not realistically possible, but they could take a way harder stance against it) but they just told people "do your business in the other, less visible room" explains a lot to me. Whether they like it or not, it's something that makes a lot of people stay subbed or buy tokens or whatever - the most important metric is that partecipation to activites is artificially inflated and that can be sold as "look, we did a good thing and players love doing it".
    Or they can make content where you can't carry people coz player needs to know the fight and put their own weight. Like in FFXIV (again using it coz I play) is hard to say bring a carry to ulimate or savage raid since each person have to know the fights and actually do damage and have personalty responsibilty. If one person is lacking is very hard to carry them. Easier content like dungeons and normal raids sure you don't need to know much mechanics but those are meant to be pug like LFR and heroic dungeons.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by sponge5307 View Post
    Or they can make content where you can't carry people coz player needs to know the fight and put their own weight.
    It exists, it's called mythic raids, high end m+/pvp. The fact it requires every player to bring its own weight immediately translates in a huge drop in partecipation.

    Remeber, while we all agree here that 15s are more or less on the easy side, in the end a third pf the players actually do them - factor in the boosted people and you can see where the actual medium player skill level lies.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    The only "problem" with boosting is the scope it reached nowadays and the fact It's become the new standard for a lot of players.
    Go on raider.io website, search for just 3 characters who are boosted and tell me how long that took you.

    I think I met exactly one boosted player while pugging my way to KSM multiple times. It was an overgeared/underskilled dude in a +9 who had a single 15 every week and fucked around below 10 for his own enjoyment.

    Boost ads are off the roof, but I don't think the number of boosted players is anywhere near what the amount of advertisements suggest.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Go on raider.io website, search for just 3 characters who are boosted and tell me how long that took you.

    I think I met exactly one boosted player while pugging my way to KSM multiple times. It was an overgeared/underskilled dude in a +9 who had a single 15 every week and fucked around below 10 for his own enjoyment.

    Boost ads are off the roof, but I don't think the number of boosted players is anywhere near what the amount of advertisements suggest.
    How do you tell who is boosted just from raider.io unless it's blatantly obvious because they're buying from well known boosters?
    Last edited by lllll; 2022-09-27 at 08:00 AM.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Go on raider.io website, search for just 3 characters who are boosted and tell me how long that took you.

    I think I met exactly one boosted player while pugging my way to KSM multiple times. It was an overgeared/underskilled dude in a +9 who had a single 15 every week and fucked around below 10 for his own enjoyment.

    Boost ads are off the roof, but I don't think the number of boosted players is anywhere near what the amount of advertisements suggest.
    I agree only partially. The point is that a lot of people who actually like to play and push M+ for example, immediately buy boosts because they want to skip the whole "increase your r.io and keys level" beggining phase - then they actually play and are likely skilled players, but don't want to deal with the 1-to-15 part of the system.

    Also, boosted player retention is the lowest. Most of them just buy the boost to get some kind of objective and then stop playing that content. So while it's true you don't really see many boosted players in the lower brackets, actually most of them either stopped or are playing at a high level pretty competently.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by sponge5307 View Post
    Or they can make content where you can't carry people coz player needs to know the fight and put their own weight. Like in FFXIV (again using it coz I play) is hard to say bring a carry to ulimate or savage raid since each person have to know the fights and actually do damage and have personalty responsibilty. If one person is lacking is very hard to carry them. Easier content like dungeons and normal raids sure you don't need to know much mechanics but those are meant to be pug like LFR and heroic dungeons.
    Mythic fights have insane personal responsibility lol. It's just that people can suicide 1 sec into the fight and eventually the best guilds in the world can easily manage without 1 dps.

    Like there's literally no possible way to tune a 20 person raid to make boosting impossible without also making it impossible for anyone but Echo lol

  10. #330
    My only problem with boosting was how in your face it was. Now you don't have to see it if don't want to.

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