Leaving M+ group should give you DESERTER

[sponge5307]

How are half of your runs disbanding? I'm purely pugging M+ at this point and I think I've had less than a handful of runs disband. Are you the one alt-f4ing? I've pugged from 0 to KSM on 2 DPS and 3 healers for both seasons of DF so far and I'm not seeing ANYTHING like that.

Depends on the keys. for lower keys like 20+ and under even if you don't time it most people will stay to finish it to fill their vault (unless you have like 20+ wipes). for keys above 20+ is pretty common to leave since at that point people are looking to increase their IO not play for vault.So far I haven't had a party that disband yet. Heck once even the tank went afk for a a few min coz he had to change the diapers for his baby. i teleport out change to change spec and tank till he got back. Sure the run was like 2 to 3min over but no one left since we just want to fill our vault.

I been pretty casual myself and join casual guild where most of us are adults have families and some have kids. Sure we just started pushing heroic raid but we all have fun and that's the important part.

[Esploratore]

Let's say: give deserter debuff for leaving as a default, as in, if someone leaves at the first difficulty, especially when you are at the last boss and can still mathematically time it (because I've had that before), they will be punished, and then put some event flag that will not make you deserter any more if you leave: 2 wipes = you no longer get deserter if you leave.

In the automatic lfd tool, if you leave after already killing a boss you don't get deserter, so this is already in place somewhere.

You could also add some correlation with timing: leaving after the key is already over time doesn't grant deserter.

In PvP if you leave nobody loses anything else but time and your spot can be replaced by someone else and you still get deserter, in M+ nothing.

Is this a joke? I've had people leave rated bgs when we had MORE points than the opponent team, probably cause they died too often, and according to the final score they were the reason for leaving, and the consequences for those who stayed are: lost rating, lost a quite good group (because when you lose no matter what the disband risk is high) and in the worst case (had it happen before) the loss brought me just under the rating required for mount progress and the following games I won, went past the minimum rating needed, lost, went under, won, went over, stuff like this, so I got absolutely 0 wins that gave credit that day because you need to win over a certain rating (was 1400 back then), and all was due to a leaver, I probably lost 4 hours because of him effectively.

What you're saying goes for regular bgs, not rated.

[Alroxas]

In the automatic lfd tool, if you leave after already killing a boss you don't get deserter, so this is already in place somewhere.

First, M+ is NOT LFD/LFR. Simply because the group leader (NOT the game) puts together the group. Whereas LFD/LFR, the GAME puts together the group (group leaders have ZERO input).

Let's say: give deserter debuff for leaving as a default, as in, if someone leaves at the first difficulty

So then what prevents players from playing "poorly" so that some other schmuck leaves first? And we're talking the full spectrum from going AFK to just missing a few vital interrupts (i.e. Hideous Cackle in Brackenhide).

2 wipes = you no longer get deserter if you leave.

Which just means that players who want OUT of the run without getting debuff will be incentivized to wipe twice to THEN be able to leave without any negatives. And again, they don't have to be griefing (i.e. Pulling extra trash) they could just play very very poorly.

Who judges if the player is actually "intentionally" doing that?

Case in point, Rokmora (1st boss in Neltharion's Lair) it's definitely worth killing Skitters on Tyrannical week because Shatter does more damage if there are living skitters. So instead of focusing on these adds, a player could just tunnel boss and occasionally cleave onto the skitters. Heck they could even be top DPS (on the boss) but that's still increases the chances of a party wipe.

You could also add some correlation with timing: leaving after the key is already over time doesn't grant deserter.

Which then mean groups that are pushing keys specifically to increase score (say they want to reach KSH) then they have to purposely wait in the dungeon (which they aren't going to time) until the timer hits zero so they can try again. So now you're going to inconvenience already established groups on top of the issues raised.

[Matumba]

Why do keys at levels higher than the level where your gear rewards stop increasing? Makes no sense in a gear-driven game.

And no, it’s not “challenge”. Would you still do it if higher keys just use a standard set of gear instead of your actual gear (so that your gear doesn’t matter and everyone are in equal conditions), yielding no gear rewards at all? You know the answer.

[shanthi]

Why do keys at levels higher than the level where your gear rewards stop increasing? Makes no sense in a gear-driven game.

And no, it’s not “challenge”. Would you still do it if higher keys just use a standard set of gear instead of your actual gear (so that your gear doesn’t matter and everyone are in equal conditions), yielding no gear rewards at all? You know the answer.

So then, why ARE people doing higher keys that don't reward better gear? You've decided "challenge" is not the answer, and obviously gear rewards are not the answer, so how do you resolve this puzzle in your mind?

[Calfredd]

@blizz, hire me and i'll implement this myself, thanks.

Yikes! I'd prefer you keep as far away from Blizzard as possible.

[Alroxas]

Why do keys at levels higher than the level where your gear rewards stop increasing? Makes no sense in a gear-driven game.

Go look up Keystone Hero achievement. /10char

[Artemol]

Yikes! I'd prefer you keep as far away from Blizzard as possible.

Yikes, cringe ma guy, cringe

[Calfredd]

Yikes, cringe ma guy, cringe

If you don't want to be cringe then just stop being cringe. This includes those weird threads you make.

[Kehego]

mmo-c threads are hilarious because they are "not toxic" but wanting people to stay in their shitty groups because "muh key"

I'm 100% sure you'd leave a shit group too.

[sponge5307]

Aug eovker made things much more interesting. in 20+ keys where people are pushing score the meta is shifted to
-Guardian druid or VDH
-Hpal
-Spriest
-Aug evoker
-mage perfer or bommy

Even in mid keys 15 to 20 people are willing to take an undergear aug evoker than a non meta class. discord and wow forums is heating up lol. What people don't realize is that in mid keys unless the other 2 dps is doing well (85+ praise) and the aug eovker communicate with the group when to use BoE along with the other two dps major CD they are not going to be puulling good number. For the average group with meh praise 85 and below and is just pugging is just easier to pug 3 dps. Aug evoker can only make the run easier if the player in the group is also playing well otherwise is worse off for overall damage. It might still make healing and taking easier but I haven't tested it out yet.

[Relapses]

Aug eovker made things much more interesting. in 20+ keys where people are pushing score the meta is shifted to
-Guardian druid or VDH
-Hpal
-Spriest
-Aug evoker
-mage perfer or bommy

Even in mid keys 15 to 20 people are willing to take an undergear aug evoker than a non meta class. discord and wow forums is heating up lol. What people don't realize is that in mid keys unless the other 2 dps is doing well (85+ praise) and the aug eovker communicate with the group when to use BoE along with the other two dps major CD they are not going to be puulling good number. For the average group with meh praise 85 and below and is just pugging is just easier to pug 3 dps. Aug evoker can only make the run easier if the player in the group is also playing well otherwise is worse off for overall damage. It might still make healing and taking easier but I haven't tested it out yet.

They have Source Magic for healers and a tank buff that gives boatloads of free armor. I was running +20s on my Prot Pally with an Augvoker and my HP bar never moved. (This was an Augvoker that rerolled this week and hit 70 on Friday.)

[sponge5307]

They have Source Magic for healers and a tank buff that gives boatloads of free armor. I was running +20s on my Prot Pally with an Augvoker and my HP bar never moved. (This was an Augvoker that rerolled this week and hit 70 on Friday.)

Yea guild was happy someone reroll to be an Aug eovker and all of a sudden they are doing keys they never could do before. This was with a VDH, resto shammy, HDH (me), Aug evoker and a fire mage(fire mage just came back from a long break and gear is meh at best). We manage to time a +17 Brackenhide Hollow pretty easily and only 2 death (mage didn't have enough hp for buffer for some of the DoT and AoE going out).

I could see how Aug benefits a group if the group comp is set to play around the evoker's buff.

[Artemol]

If you don't want to be cringe then just stop being cringe. This includes those weird threads you make.

what if you're the one whos actually cringe, cringe?

[sponge5307]

They have Source Magic for healers and a tank buff that gives boatloads of free armor. I was running +20s on my Prot Pally with an Augvoker and my HP bar never moved. (This was an Augvoker that rerolled this week and hit 70 on Friday.)

yea that's what I mean they stuff give really good buff to healer and tank and one main reason guaridan shrine is coz a lot of damage from this season is physical where vs last season where is mostly magic damage. So having armor is good up to a certain point.

I am just saying that in mid keys (15 to 20). where damage matters more than surviving (people usually don't get KO with one hit) and tanks don't usually die much Aug evoker isn't as high as people think. Mainly coz most people don't play in a level that they will get the most benefit out of it.

Evoker really shines in a good group pushing keys 25+ when people get one shot from 100 to 0 and having that extra buff and extra healing buff really help the group.

Quick question I want to play another class (got bored of my DH) and thinking of playing either a ret pally or fury warrior for fun. I like fury warrior more but as a ret I know it is better and I can tank better on my pally than Warrior (not that I do it often). I like the fast pace play style of fury warrior but ret is a safer option with all the buff and utilities it provides. I don't play daily most just log in for heroic raid farm and a few mid key and that's it. Think i should play ret or fury? Ret is better for sure in game play but I like fury more..... tough choices